Modern gaming fatigue

[zzip]

tutorials should be self-paced.   Not everyone needs a tutorial on every game mechanic,  but many games will have a unique mechanic that is worth doing the tutorial on.   I should be able to skip the tutorial steps I don't need.     Also you should be able to jump into a "refresher" later in the game,  because after doing a tutorial and putting the game down for a few days, I will inevitably forget how to perform some of the maneuvers, so it would be nice to pull up that portion of the tutorial later if needed.

[bradhig1]

Just as I have been saying modern games get over padded becasue of online stuff and extras they don't need.    They keep adding characters to Super Smash Brothers on the switch and I haven't bought any of them.    I don't play online anymore it wasn''t fun anymore after Mario Kart 8.    Who is the joker in SSBB?  The batman character?     Now the padding gets worse with DLC we end up with an unfinished game and wait to buy the rest of it.  Never unlocked all the stuff in SSBB and never got all the master sword upgrades in Breath of the Wild.   Don't get me started on JRPGs. The way I see Japanesse programmers just get too carried away with themselves making games.

[RJ]

I got fatigued reading most of the too-long replies here.

[MrBeefy]

On 4/23/2021 at 8:22 AM, zzip said:

I think there are quite a lot of games that are short / pick up and play.   Problem is they don't get the attention that the big, long AAA games get.   So discovering them is harder.   The game stores could do a better job here.   Steam is good about recommending things you might like based on what you played, they also have an extensive user review system.   The Playstation and Nintendo stores are a lot weaker in this regard, and buying a lesser-known game from them feels more like a crap-shoot.

I think the reality is there are more shorter pick up and play games than longer games. 

 

I think it is more of a strawman arguement to say games like Red Dead and Asassin's Creed are the norm.

 

The DLC in games like Mario Kart and Smash I'm okay with. Those are examples of games that feel complete without the need to get DLC. It is something nice and extra. I understand the DLC frustration in other games.

 

I think this is a great time to be a gamer and there are options for anyone. I predominantly just do short games right now and I have more than enough great options on Steam and Switch.

 

2 minutes ago, RJ said:

I got fatigued reading most of the too-long replies here.

Sorry.

[Razzie.P]

5 hours ago, bradhig1 said:

Who is the joker in SSBB?  The batman character?    

I think his name is Maurice.  Occupations include "Space Cowboy" and "Gangster of Love"

[zzip]

On 4/24/2021 at 8:41 PM, MrBeefy said:

The DLC in games like Mario Kart and Smash I'm okay with. Those are examples of games that feel complete without the need to get DLC. It is something nice and extra. I understand the DLC frustration in other games.

I see DLC complaints all the time, but I've never played a game where DLC wasn't optional and rarely do I feel compelled to buy it.   Games with DLC expansions, the base game usually has a campaign that lasts tens of hours, and the DLC just extends the game a few more hours.   And if your patient, you can buy a "complete edition" of the game that includes all DLC, and get the entire thing on sale for $15-20.

 

A lot of the people complaining seem to want everything the day it comes out, and lack willpower when it comes to optional purchases.

 

"Free to Play" games might have a "Pay to win" model where you pretty much have to buy some DLC or microtransaction, but naturally such games need to earn money somehow.

[NeonSpaceBeagle]

I don't know if it's a thing anymore, but sometime around the mid 2000's games started implementing in game social credit scores and I find that gag-worthy.  Of course they would use benign terminology like 'kudos', 'likes', etc..  still gross.  i especially despised it in racing games.

[Rhomaios]

On 4/26/2021 at 11:17 AM, NeonSpaceBeagle said:

I don't know if it's a thing anymore, but sometime around the mid 2000's games started implementing in game social credit scores and I find that gag-worthy.  Of course they would use benign terminology like 'kudos', 'likes', etc..  still gross.  i especially despised it in racing games.

Metropolis Street Racer for the Dreamcast did that already in 2000. I think they were the first to call it "kudos." It's really more of a challenge feature there, though. I didn't play any later games in the series.

 

On 4/26/2021 at 9:36 AM, zzip said:

"Free to Play" games might have a "Pay to win" model where you pretty much have to buy some DLC or microtransaction, but naturally such games need to earn money somehow.

They could do it a more legitimate way, like making a quality game and charging for it. Pay-to-win games are inherently garbage.

[zzip]

14 hours ago, Rhomaios said:

They could do it a more legitimate way, like making a quality game and charging for it. Pay-to-win games are inherently garbage.

A lot of these are online multiplayer games that need a an active playerbase or they're dead.   Making them free or cheap to play helps populate their servers, but then they need to make money other ways.

[Lord Mushroom]

16 hours ago, Rhomaios said:

They could do it a more legitimate way, like making a quality game and charging for it. Pay-to-win games are inherently garbage.

Pay-to-win is bad in competitive games, especially in games without skill based matchmaking. I think it is fine for single player games, though. Even if I wouldn´t pay for such stuff myself, except for removing time-restrictions or something artificial like that.

 

The best way to profit from free to play games is to charge for things that don´t change gameplay. Those who don´t want to pay for a different outfit don´t have to, and those who do can.

[NeonSpaceBeagle]

while not particularly modern, last night i realized how much i can't stand memory cards.  specifically for ps1, ps2, and gamecube.  i went to play rollcage II for ps2 last night and couldn't find any saves on my memory cards (i swear i had them in the past) and i had to go through the annoying tutorial (a tutorial for a game like that is absurd) so i lost interest.  a little off topic, but is there a way to somehow get game saves off the internet somewhere onto a memory card so everything is unlocked and not have to deal with tutorials and difficult games anymore?

[Tanooki]

On 4/30/2021 at 9:17 AM, NeonSpaceBeagle said:

while not particularly modern, last night i realized how much i can't stand memory cards.  specifically for ps1, ps2, and gamecube.  i went to play rollcage II for ps2 last night and couldn't find any saves on my memory cards (i swear i had them in the past) and i had to go through the annoying tutorial (a tutorial for a game like that is absurd) so i lost interest.  a little off topic, but is there a way to somehow get game saves off the internet somewhere onto a memory card so everything is unlocked and not have to deal with tutorials and difficult games anymore?

Yes gamefaqs used to make it like their job in the 90s and 00s archiving multiple users save games, hacked save games, 100% finished save games on individual games that used memory cards.  Back then there were things such as the DEXDRIVE that were for the likes of the PS1, N64, Dreamcast where you could pop your memory card into it, it went into the PC, had an app and you could read, write, update saves.  There were even home baked stuff, like the old retroid for N64 and that needed no software(optional) as it would pick up in WinXP/Vista as another USB drive and you could do whatever from explorer.

[bradhig1]

pong quest is wearing me out.  I got all the powerups ,but I am missing several clothes items and can't find them anywhere.  The grinding is insane it takes almost two hours to get a level up and I always get power ups I don't want when I do level up.   No walkthrough anywhere.

[Keatah]

Still can't get on-board with Zero-Day patches and required downloads to "complete" the game you just bought. I mean like what is the point of a zero-day update? Can't the devs just wait one more frakking day and give you something complete fer'chrissakes!

 

It's like all these incomplete games will have negative value later on once the servers go bye-bye. Ya'think?

[Steven Pendleton]

Better to have an incomplete physical game that doesn't work properly/is incomplete than to rent a digital game and then not be able to download it ever again legally once the servers go down. That's you, Nintendo, killing the Wii store and the 3DS store and the Wii U store. Shit's still stupid, though, and I hate it. Even MAG, a game that you literally can't play anymore, still sells for like $2~$3 USD on ebay, though, so it's not like they will lose all value. I'd much rather use that $2~$3 to buy a hot dog at 7-Eleven or whatever, though.

[zzip]

7 hours ago, Keatah said:

Still can't get on-board with Zero-Day patches and required downloads to "complete" the game you just bought. I mean like what is the point of a zero-day update? Can't the devs just wait one more frakking day and give you something complete fer'chrissakes!

There are deadlines set by the business/marketing.   If a game is meant to be released for the holiday season (annual Call of Duty and what not), then it needs to ship in time to be on the shelves for the holidays.   If the game releases earlier in the year, then it will want to release in a timeframe where it gets maximum attention, and doesn't get eclipsed by another release.   For example the Horizon series-   Horizon Zero Dawn got overshadowed by Breath Of the Wild, and Horizon Forbidden West got completely overshadowed by Elden Ring-   That's the kind of thing marketing generally wants to avoid and they try to schedule release dates appropriately.

 

Developers can ask for extensions, and will sometimes be granted and sometimes not.

 

At some point comes what they call "going gold", which means they've released the build of the game that will be pressed on the discs sold in stores.   But since this event is usually driven by a hard deadline rather than game completeness, they still often have a ton of known bugs that need to be resolved.   So they continue working on fixes for these right up to release and beyond.

 

AAA games are some of the most complex computer programs out there,  there are millions of lines of code,  integrated middleware like physics engines, etc.   And they keep getting bigger with each generation.   The projects are difficult to manage.  Sometimes the best estimates of how long things will take are way off.   Often unforseen issues will crop up throwing the schedule into disarray.

 

Unfortunately I don't see these things changing anytime soon.

[Tanooki]

Nice to see this back after a year, stuff changes.

My modern gaming fatigue hasn't though, if anything, it's magnified.  I like my Switch OLED and my PC, but I rarely use either for anything 'new' at all, even after getting Kirby for my birthday earlier this year, I only did two worlds, loved it, but just got myself distracted, then loaned it to my kid and she played it out entirely which was impressive, and it has sat since.  Truthfully limiting myself largely to just SNES/Genesis this year and a random sprinkling of something NES or Gameboy has done me wonders, as I'm using it.  it's harassment free, you just play and it's fun, no waits, no bait, no betas, no ugly bugs, no perpetual load screens, and other dumpster fire hell.  I saw a stellar deal for a clean copy of Dragon Warrior Monsters online, ordered it the other day, paid barely over 1/2 the going rate (including store in town matching that) and it's fun.  I haven't touched it since college where i played it at nights passing out at times with the GBC turned on, damn good game.

[Cebus Capucinis]

Yeah, I have to agree - I've been completely fatigued with modern games. The Switch has been great for just quick 10-20 minute stuff but I just don't have the mental capacity anymore to endeavor for a 40-50+ hour AAA title (the 95736467th playthrough of New Vegas notwithstanding, GOTYAY) They're great games still, I'm sure, but the commitment is just too much for me anymore. Maybe a sign of getting long in the tooth?

[Keatah]

Not so much getting old or long in the tooth, perhaps intolerance for minutiae and non-productive busywork. Excessive downloads, bugs, DLC.. All time wasters imho.

 

Older games are complete and paced differently. Many have a mechanism that limits playtime based on skill, like arcades. The 3-lives / 5-minutes model. Hi-score chasing. Or they're just plain smaller in scope. I personally don't like sprawling lengthy titles that cost millions a-dollahs to make.

 

Perhaps that's a secret to the VCS' longevity. The shorter games. We grew up with kid-sized attention spans. And the VCS fit. And now 50 years later the shorter games fit grups' lifestyle better than a 200-hour AAA campaign.

[Tanooki]

I think @Keatah hit it fairly well there.  It's the bs and the scope.  The big bucks games seem to want to qualify them nailing you at $60 then at least that much more in downloads and that's aside from all the repairs the games get abusing that internal storage.  I picked up that SOTN clone of Lodoss War with Deedlit, damned amazing, but also like a 10 hour game or so, and I put that one through a few hours here, then there, dragged it out over a week or two.  That went marvelous same could be said of Metroid Dread on the Switch too... poke poke play play, nothing nuts.  It worked, they were not mega budget games, but you could handle them in bites like older games with a save, password, or whatever to progress.

 

I'm diddling around a bit with Chrono Trigger and FF3 DS remade both to the iOS phone format as they really don't need more than menu pecks to poke around in so the touch panel doesn't foul it up, and since I can approach them as easily as I could decades ago, it works...and handy being in the pocket at all times helps too.

 

Today DWM came in the mail, but I also came across a decent priced immaculate copy of Pokemon Puzzle Challenge on GBC too, good fun an easily done, and unlike Tetris Attack on GB, you can pause and save right on the spot, that helps for accomplishment of progress and not feeling pinched.  But again hey look at that I'm talking about games that came out between 1995-2005 here.

[zzip]

I didn't have modern gaming fatigue until the PS5 or maybe it's because of the pandemic and too much free time?

 

Problem with having a PS5 is I became a lot less interested in playing PS4 games on it.   I want games to show what the PS5 is capable of!   But there's not a whole lot there so far that interests me.   Yeah, I put a ton of hours into Elden Ring, but that's a game that's still out on PS4 so hardly next gen!   Same with the other games I put a lot of time in Demon Souls (PS3 remake),  NMS and Planet Coaster (both have PS4 versions).    So still kind of waiting for the PS5 game that will blow me away, in the meantime I'm kind of bored with it at the moment.

[Ninjabba]

I did manage to cure my modern gaming fatigue since I posted almost 2 years ago the key seems to be extreme moderation.. it also helped that some games like the RE2 Remake felt like I finally was playing something that gave me the WOW factor that one expects from all the marketing around AAA games. Still staying away from most open world games, though my next stop will probably be Elden Ring during the winter months.

 

As @zzip states, there seems to be nothing on the PS5 that is convincing enough to consider such an expensive upgrade, pretty much revealing the overall problem with modern gaming..

[Leonard Smith]

I've definitely found that I'm an arcade 'quick fix' type of gamer.  The 3 lives and game over formula, as well as some quick button mashing stuff.

 

While I have slogged through campaign modes for the latest Halo and Gears games, I do find them to be a chore at this stage of my life.  I mean, you progress through a level, solve a puzzle or two, build up to a boss fight, and then spend time beating the boss which can feel like a slog.  Then rinse and repeat on the next level.
 

I have zero interest in collect-a-thon games like Pokemon or Magic the Gathering, 'walking simulators', world builders, strategy games, and stuff like Fortnite or whatever kids play these days.  I don't see the fun or joy in a long RPG nor do I enjoy crafting items or comparing which helmet and sword I should equip due to all the crazy modifiers like in Diablo.  15 years ago I was all over that kind of artificial depth, but today I tire of it and simply stop playing.

 

The only next gen game I still play regularly is Gears5 and ONLY the Horde Mode (which ironically has a quick arcade like flow to it).  
 

Just the way the world works I guess.  

[Keatah]

The DLC I do tolerate and even enjoy would be the add-on planes, scenery, and other mods in X-Plane. Though some can have a higher price of $50. The expensive ones are sometimes updated to work in the next gen of sim like the upcoming X-Plane 12. Or have been updated from 10 to 11. So the bank isn't entirely broke.

 

First encounter with contemporary DLC, outside of the Apple II sphere, would have been Doom. The game was complete on several levels, no pun intended. Most of us got the shareware version, 1 episode sporting 9 levels. The game played long enough feel complete for the price of free (or 10$ on retail distro disks in a box). You could also change the difficulty for some replay value. This first shareware edition played long enough to make it worth the time and money - didn't feel cheated or teased at any time.

 

Then you could get the full version with more episodes and levels. I had no reservations buying it because I wanted to see more of the 3D world. Go on additional missions. In time there would be Doom II and Ultimate Doom. All purchased straight away because I wasn't goaded, frustrated, or teased. I mean the game just didn't stop like in mid-level. It would provide lengthy satisfying play through an entire episode.

 

And then there were the user-created add-ons which was like free bonus material. Got most of that via dial-up Terminal-to-BBS. Then the internet happened with AOL. Gosh I miss that service!

 

All of the above was paralleled with the Duke Nuke'em 3D and Quake franchises. Though I didn't take a liking to Quake III: Arena's on-line feature. Servers were polluted with scriptakiddies.

 

What I wished for was more content for DESCENT. And more open-air regions for it. Same with Unreal and franchise. Unfortunately that wasn't to be since "on-line" gaming was becoming the thing.

 

It was about this time I was getting frustrated with getting the right hardware to get a good framerate on Unreal and Tournament - always felt on the apex of a house of cards. Any change to my rig would make it all crash. And building one to maintain compatibility with all software that came before was beginning to be a little annoying. DOS, Direct3D 8/9, Glide 2.x/3.x, OpenGL, PowerVR SGL, S3 MeTaL, and not forgetting software-only rendering. Not every game worked well across the board - one wanted this API, the other that API. Another wanted a certain version. Another wanted a specific card. Ugh!! A more recalcitrant version of CONFIG.SYS & AUTOEXEC.BAT was playing out. Just in a GUI that made it more inconvenient to drill-down. A prelude to modern gaming for years to come until very recently with Windows 10.

 

If it says Windows 10, and you have recent discrete graphics, you're good. That's all that's needed. I don't believe the general gaming population would stand for all that tinkering anymore. Not in this day and age of "it just works". Seems smartphones gave PCs a well-deserved swiftkickintheass.

 

The transition from 95/98 to XP and eventually 7 was a little too chaotic for me. Going from 10 to 11 seems rather benign and tolerable I believe. Maybe Microsoft micromanaging upgrading, patching, drivers, and all things that people like to bitch about, is good. It does reduce one aspect of modern gaming fatigue!

[Keatah]

One additional thing with PC's that I have little or no tolerance (nowadays) for is patching the OS to make it work with current or more advanced hardware than it was intended to use. Unix jerks might revel in their glass house prowess of making old hardware work with new software via patching and tweaking. Pfagghh! It's just a substandard make-do thing done for no other reason than having an excuse for having fallen into a rabbit hole.

 

Like:

1- Making an 18TB HDD work on 32-Bit XP, by way of Paragon's GPT mod from 10 years ago.

2- Connecting an external graphics card via USB-C or Thunderbolt or one of those retarded eGPU enclosures.

3- Or going back earlier, the pass-through video with 3DFx boards. Or multiple soundcards.

4- Adding extra internal HDD's via 1394 interface.

100- I didn't bother listing any more!

 

Modern gaming has eliminated jackass gymnastics like that. Everything is modular. And it tends to work or not work.

 

Say for example if X-Plane 12 wants more than my GTX-1080, and I expect it will, I am most definitely NOT going to fuck around with overclocking and special drivers or tricks on the bus to get 10% more speed. No. I'll just throw out the old stuff and buy new hardware that handles it.

 

People often say that's a conspiracy. Some kinda collusion going on to get you to spend money. Bullshit. It's just a collision of various disparate segments we loosely call the "industry". Each element pushes the other. Nvidia makes a new graphics chip. The software guys exploit it to the best of their ability. Neither is working under the table to cause the rat race cycle. Jensen Huang and Austin Meyer aren't plotting to drain your bank account.