It’s okay to like the VCS.

[leech]

19 minutes ago, Shaggy the Atarian said:

Lol, so because you don't like something, it's not valid? That's not how arguments work. They are all factual points - doesn't matter that you don't like them or are incapable of refuting them. Seems par for the course with you VCS fans really. 

 

"likely software support" - Do you know anything about the Ouya? You don't appear to. It primarily featured games from the Google Play store, while allowing devs to offer up their own creations. They also required all devs to offer up free options for their games. Is the Amico doing that in any way? Not that I can see. Are a bunch of their games mobile-quality? Yeah, and so is most of the official VCS library up to this point.

 

Yeah, totally invalid to compare the Ouya, which allows you to install your own OS on it, to the VCS, which allows you to install your own OS on it, but the Amico doesn't. 

How is 'they were both crowdfunded' a valid point on 'the systems are similar'?  Who gives a crap about how they came about.

Yeah, I know enough of the Ouya to know why I would never own one.  So what if you can offer up your own creations, you can do that on a standard Android phone too, use adb, etc.  To me the platform matters.  Do I have to log into a google account on a VCS?  Nope?  Does it run Android at all (which I hate), nope.  So really if you are stretching that they being crowdfunded makes them similar....

[Shaggy the Atarian]

1 minute ago, 82-T/A said:

 

 

I don't even know where to start with this. Almost everything you say is totally wrong.

 

1 - Those systems you mention are not platform game systems... there are literally 3... the rest are just streaming devices and nonsense.

 

2 - Population has gone up almost 30% in the past 20 years, while overall console sales have gone down more than 50%

 

3 - US Population has gone up almost 60 million in the past 20 years.

 

4 - I never said the Switch was discontinued

 

5 - I never said the VCS is the only way to experience Atari games.

 

6 - I was going to buy a Switch for my daughter, but she has no interest in it anymore. She's in middle school, none of the middle schoolers are into the Switch anymore. It's on the decline too.

 

1 - You asserted that there were only two platforms for gaming. That was wrong.

2 - I wasn't originally arguing with you about that, but you still are ignoring birth rates in certain regions. Birth rates have gone up in places like Africa and the Middle East, while going down in North America, Europe and various parts of Asia. Game consoles don't sell very well in really poor countries, because they tend to be overpriced. I used to live in Brazil back when the Dreamcast was discounted to $99. In Brazil though, it still cost R$799, which at the time 1USD = 4 Brazilian Reais.

3- I won't argue on that point. I'll just go on a tangent to say that I only really took issue with your incorrect portrayal of the Switch. 

4 - No, but you said: "Likewise, the Switch never came close to the sales figures of the original Wii (by almost 30 million less)." That's a pretty absolutist, past-tense statement to make and the original one I took issue with, because it implies that the Switch is no longer selling and it ignores the latest news on Switch sales. From VentureBeat:  "Nintendo has shipped 80 million Switch systems. That pushes the console past the 3DS in terms of total sales. At its current pace, the Switch could outsell the Wii’s 102 million consoles sold by the end of 2021."

 

That also doesn't account for the fact that the Switch will still be for sale well into 2022. 

 

I also take issue with you comparing sales of a still-active console that has only been on the market for 4 years to a console that was on the market for twice that length of time. By the stats, and as that statement above states, the Switch is doing really well, pretty much on par with the Wii (aberration in the stats due to when the Switch was released, outside of a busy holiday season). 

5 - You said; "Those who bought the Atari VCS are fans, like myself... slightly reliving old times while also being able to experience it in the future." I only said you're acting like that's how we're supposed to play Atari in the future. I really don't see any point to the VCS. We're getting far more interesting and original games on the old systems through the homebrew scene than anything that Atari has announced for this miniPC.

6 - I can also do anecdotes too. Of my three kids, one is in high school, one in 6th grade and starting middle school this year, the other in preschool. All of them play the Switch, the younger two enough to the point where we've been thinking about getting a 2nd Switch. Does that mean it's hot? Nope. We have to look at hard data for that, and as I shared, the Switch is selling strong and will continue to do so. That's without a lot of big releases in lieu of the pandemic, where they cooled off on some developments. They still have heavy hitters like another Metroid Prime and a sequel to Breath of the Wild; They also keep releasing original IP like Ring Fit Adventure. 

 

Could a lot of stuff go to digital/streaming one day? Sure. It's not a sure fire bet that the future is all streaming though, as Google just found out with the spectacular failure of Stadia. 

[leech]

3 hours ago, 82-T/A said:

Playstation 2 sold over 155 million units before they stopped counting. PS4's final sales figures were 50 million less than the PS2, though better than PS3, and PS5 is too new to count. I'm not a kid anymore (42 now), but I don't know anyone who's buying one of my early ~20 something friends / people who work for me at the office.

Ha, yeah as soon as I read 'PS4 best selling console' I was like 'pretty sure the PS2 is still the best by a long shot'. 

 

12 minutes ago, Matt_B said:

Regardless of what the VCS costs to build, the big three make more powerful machines that cost less. Even comparable mini PCs cost less. If they can't cut their prices to compete, they should get out of the market.

I've already shown this to be incorrect.  Comparable mini PCs for one are ugly little bricks.  Second off, the barebones versions cost as much as the 8gb ram 32gb storage VCS.

14 minutes ago, Matt_B said:

If you're going to do crowdfunding for hardware, you should have a demonstrable prototype. Renders, mocked-up footage and lumps of plastic shouldn't cut it.

The only people who cared about that were the people on this forum and some YouTubers.  I bet you most people right now if you walked up to a random person on the street and said 'Whoa, did you know there is a new console by Atari?' they'd probably wonder why you're not wearing a mask and shuffle away from you... Hell, when the Atari Jaguar came out people would do that to me (minus the mask joke). 

 

People who are shopping in Walmart and see the snazzy box and stuff and are in their 40s, but haven't really kept up in the gaming industry and would just like to go home and play asteroids again are the target for this thing.  Or nerds that like Linux, or installing operating systems on weird devices just to see what the hell they can do about it (someone mentioned turning it into a full blown MIDI studio, because why not?)

 

17 minutes ago, Matt_B said:

If you're going to do viral marketing, don't lie and check your facts beforehand.

I'll agree about this.  Though let's be fair in this day and age, viral marketing usually is lies with little facts

[CPUWIZ]

[leech]

9 minutes ago, Shaggy the Atarian said:

 Switch 

I loved the concept of the Switch, so I bought one.  I do play the VCS more.  Though my version of 'play' differs from most.  If there isn't something I can hack with, or mess around with, or it's a little buggy... I actually get bored too easily haha.  So I kind of like that the VCS is on a weird unstable situation where it's not quite there, and you can play around with things on it.

 

Don't get me wrong, the Switch is a wonderful machine.  But it's similar to the VCS in that you buy it for Exclusive Nintendo licenses, a HUGE majority of games on it are not only on the Switch, in fact it seems only Nintendo is the exclusive makers of games for it.  But their games are quite excellent. 

 

The problem Atari has is that while they have some excellent IP still... they don't have any good development teams (at least that they've shown) to rework that IP into something amazing that will get people to absolutely crave the system.  I vote that they need a proper remake of Star Raiders.  That would basically do it.  And if they REALLY want to sell that, they need to do a full on controller for it like they originally did!  (not that I'm advocating for a numeric keypad, but like a HOTAS).

[leech]

3 minutes ago, CPUWIZ said:

STOP!!!  Don't make me turn this car around and buy a 3DS....

[CPUWIZ]

4 minutes ago, leech said:

on weird devices

 

One of my soldering irons can play Tetris.

 

[Shaggy the Atarian]

22 minutes ago, leech said:

How is 'they were both crowdfunded' a valid point on 'the systems are similar'?  Who gives a crap about how they came about.

Yeah, I know enough of the Ouya to know why I would never own one.  So what if you can offer up your own creations, you can do that on a standard Android phone too, use adb, etc.  To me the platform matters.  Do I have to log into a google account on a VCS?  Nope?  Does it run Android at all (which I hate), nope.  So really if you are stretching that they being crowdfunded makes them similar....

Do you know what a comparison is? Apparently not. Granted, you're the one that butted into the argument, which was originally with zzip. He's the one that claimed that the Amico and Ouya are more similar to each other. He didn't provide evidence to the assertion, so I showed how in various ways the VCS and Ouya are closer to each other, in circumstance and features, than the Amico is.

 

Do you have to log into a google account on an Amico? Not that I know of. Is Amico digital-only? Nope. Does the Amico have an Xbox-style controller? Nope. Is Amico claiming it's an open platform? Nope. Is the Amico relying on streaming services or pre-existing stores to get their games? Not so far. 

 

"Does the VCS run Android at all" - Well, according to this press release from last year it does, with the WonderOS that they acquired. 

 

BTW - Android is just another Linux based OS, I'm sure you know that though. 

Edited February 5, 2021 by Shaggy the Atarian

[leech]

1 minute ago, CPUWIZ said:

 

One of my soldering irons can play Tetris.

 

Can it run Crysis?  I will not be surprised when doom is ported, seems to be everyone ports to everything these days besides the Linux kernel (which they somehow crammed onto the N64)

[leech]

1 minute ago, Shaggy the Atarian said:

Do you know what a comparison is? Apparently not. Granted, you're the one that butted into the argument, which was originally with zzip. He's the one that claimed that the Amico and Ouya are more similar to each other. He didn't provide evidence to the assertion, so I showed how in various ways the VCS and Ouya are closer to each other, in circumstance and features, than the Amico is.

 

Do you have to log into a google account on an Amico? Not that I know of. Is Amico digital-only? Nope. Does the Amico have an Xbox-style controller? Nope. Is Amico claiming it's an open platform? Nope. Is the Amico relying on streaming services or pre-existing stores to get their games? Not so far. 

 

"Does the VCS run Android at all" - Well, according to this press release from last year it does, with the WonderOS that they acquired. 

I actually agreed with zzip and said the same thing in another post.  The VCS really isn't similar to the Ouya though.  And yes, I compare ONLY hardware / software.  Every thing else from a console point of view is irrelevant to me.  Sure maybe it matters to you.  Fine, cool.  Whatever helps you sleep at night.  

That press release also called it the Razen...

Actually OWNING a VCS, I can guarantee you that it is not running Android.  This is the operating system it runs.  https://apertis.org/

[CPUWIZ]

4 minutes ago, leech said:

Can it run Crysis?

 

No, but it can do, what other consoles can't!  Every time you lose a game, the iron tip temperature increases by 10 degrees.

 

Guess which way you have to hold it.

[Shaggy the Atarian]

2 minutes ago, leech said:

I actually agreed with zzip and said the same thing in another post.  The VCS really isn't similar to the Ouya though.  And yes, I compare ONLY hardware / software.  Every thing else from a console point of view is irrelevant to me.  Sure maybe it matters to you.  Fine, cool.  Whatever helps you sleep at night.  

That press release also called it the Razen...

Actually OWNING a VCS, I can guarantee you that it is not running Android.  This is the operating system it runs.  https://apertis.org/

You're ignoring the open platform parts, upgradeable/hackable hardware, streaming stuff (a major software feature that both Atari and Ouya promoted), but whatever. Either way, both the VCS and Amico are running some flavor of Linux. You might hate Android, but it's still just another Linux fork. By that line, everything running Linux must be "close to the Ouya."

 

The press release doesn't state that the VCS OS is running Android, but that "WonderOS," an Android-based entertainment service, would play a role on the VCS. 

[Shaggy the Atarian]

6 minutes ago, CPUWIZ said:

 

No, but it can do, what other consoles can't!  Every time you lose a game, the iron tip temperature increases by 10 degrees.

 

Guess which way you have to hold it.

Sounds almost like this!

 

 

[CPUWIZ]

I remember that.

[leech]

8 minutes ago, Shaggy the Atarian said:

You're ignoring the open platform parts, upgradeable/hackable hardware, streaming stuff (a major software feature that both Atari and Ouya promoted), but whatever. Either way, both the VCS and Amico are running some flavor of Linux. You might hate Android, but it's still just another Linux fork. By that line, everything running Linux must be "close to the Ouya."

 

The press release doesn't state that the VCS OS is running Android, but that "WonderOS," an Android-based entertainment service, would play a role on the VCS. 

It uses the Linux Kernel, that is where all similarities end between Android and a proper Linux distribution (like Redhat, Debian, Arch).  Ubuntu is a 'fork' of Debian.  When most people refer to Linux, they refer to Linux + GNU stuff that includes tons of other software.  When one refers to Android, it's Linux+Google's slop over it.

So far WonderOS is not on the VCS at all, unless they ripped the fronted of it off of it and slapped it over Apertis.

17 minutes ago, CPUWIZ said:

 

No, but it can do, what other consoles can't!  Every time you lose a game, the iron tip temperature increases by 10 degrees.

 

Guess which way you have to hold it.

https://gizmodo.com/sadistic-keyboard-will-shock-the-hunt-and-peck-out-of-y-1846173358  Sounds like you need one of these.

[82-T/A]

23 minutes ago, Shaggy the Atarian said:

Do you know what a comparison is? Apparently not. Granted, you're the one that butted into the argument, which was originally with zzip. He's the one that claimed that the Amico and Ouya are more similar to each other. He didn't provide evidence to the assertion, so I showed how in various ways the VCS and Ouya are closer to each other, in circumstance and features, than the Amico is.

 

Do you have to log into a google account on an Amico? Not that I know of. Is Amico digital-only? Nope. Does the Amico have an Xbox-style controller? Nope. Is Amico claiming it's an open platform? Nope. Is the Amico relying on streaming services or pre-existing stores to get their games? Not so far. 

 

"Does the VCS run Android at all" - Well, according to this press release from last year it does, with the WonderOS that they acquired. 

 

BTW - Android is just another Linux based OS, I'm sure you know that though. 

I know this isn’t directed at me, but I really have to say... what’s up? You seem super aggressive with everyone. Is this how you always are on here? Or is it more of a social awkwardness thing? You seem really hell bent on winning an argument that I’m not even sure what it is. Like the first sentence of every one of your replies is basically an attack. You seem to be doing it to everyone you respond to.

[leech]

11 minutes ago, Shaggy the Atarian said:

You're ignoring the open platform parts, upgradeable/hackable hardware, streaming stuff (a major software feature that both Atari and Ouya promoted), but whatever. Either way, both the VCS and Amico are running some flavor of Linux. You might hate Android, but it's still just another Linux fork. By that line, everything running Linux must be "close to the Ouya."

 

The press release doesn't state that the VCS OS is running Android, but that "WonderOS," an Android-based entertainment service, would play a role on the VCS. 

I know what the open platform parts of the Ouya are though.  You're stuck trying to run distributions that support ARM, and much like running Linux on a PS3, you're not getting hardware acceleration.  (this is a guess, as it certainly seems to be the trend for all ARM SoC to have a proprietary blob that is locked to the specific version of kernel the Android device came with.  Why else do you think that Android phones typically get 1, maybe 2 major releases then are dropped like a stone.  It's because of those GPUs that no one releases a newer driver for so newer kernels can use it...  Well one of the many reasons). 

 

I'll say this, there are a lot of systems that claim they are open platforms, but probably the RISC-V boards are the closest.  I think even the Pi4 doesn't have an open GPU.

[leech]

1 minute ago, 82-T/A said:

I know this isn’t directed at me, but I really have to say... what’s up? You seem super aggressive with everyone. Is this how you always are on here? Or is it more of a social awkwardness thing? You seem really hell bent on winning an argument that I’m not even sure what it is. Like the first sentence of every one of your replies is basically an attack. You seem to be doing it to everyone you respond to.

Shit day at work

[+Sauron]

11 minutes ago, Shaggy the Atarian said:

You're ignoring the open platform parts, upgradeable/hackable hardware, streaming stuff (a major software feature that both Atari and Ouya promoted), but whatever. Either way, both the VCS and Amico are running some flavor of Linux. You might hate Android, but it's still just another Linux fork. By that line, everything running Linux must be "close to the Ouya."

Android is not "just another Linux fork". About the only thing it has in common with most Linux distros is that it runs on top of the Linux kernel, but that's it. The rest of the OS is completely different, especially when it comes to running apps. I really wish people would stop repeating this nonsense about Android.

 

Oh, and...

 

[Shaggy the Atarian]

2 minutes ago, 82-T/A said:

I know this isn’t directed at me, but I really have to say... what’s up? You seem super aggressive with everyone. Is this how you always are on here? Or is it more of a social awkwardness thing? You seem really hell bent on winning an argument that I’m not even sure what it is. Like the first sentence of every one of your replies is basically an attack. You seem to be doing it to everyone you respond to.

Just with you, Leech and zzip, but if you want to find out how I always am on here, feel free to spend time looking through all my posts!  Perhaps you can read some more emotions and tone into the posts of a "retard."

[leech]

7 minutes ago, Sauron said:

Android is not "just another Linux fork". About the only thing it has in common with most Linux distros is that it runs on top of the Linux kernel, but that's it. The rest of the OS is completely different, especially when it comes to running apps. I really wish people would stop repeating this nonsense about Android.

 

Oh, and...

 

Ha.  Yeah and that's something that sets me off, sorry.  I love Linux, hate Android.    Linux (desktop, server, whatever you want to put it on, toaster, etc) vs Android (uses Linux Kernel, treats you as a piece of data ripe for the munching on, always trying to share your contacts with every app, etc). 

So pretty much when people confuse the two, I do get a tad aggressive and annoyed.  Being a long few weeks of work doesn't help. 

 

But to answer the other question, no I'm absolutely not normally like this and usually help people out wherever I can.  I just find it weird that some people absolutely blast the VCS, yet praise the Intellivision.  I just remember from the 80s thinking the Intellivision was a piece of crap, while I had my 800XL  HA!

 

Edit:  Also, where did you get my photo, I thought I removed all those... damn internet and it's backups.

Edited February 5, 2021 by leech

[Matt_B]

1 minute ago, leech said:

I've already shown this to be incorrect.  Comparable mini PCs for one are ugly little bricks.  Second off, the barebones versions cost as much as the 8gb ram 32gb storage VCS.

You've not shown anything of the sort.

 

Seriously, anyone can go on NewEgg or Amazon and see literally dozens of mini PCs selling for less than the price of the VCS, many with RAM, SSDs and a copy of Windows included, and in some cases with significantly higher specs. I've already linked to several of them in this discussion. You're flat out denying reality at this point.

 

Maybe the VCS has an edge on looks, but the difference between under $199 and $389 is a lot to be asking for a sliver of woodgrain, and a couple of controllers that a typical mini PC buyer probably doesn't want.

 

1 minute ago, leech said:

The only people who cared about that were the people on this forum and some YouTubers.

The more reputable crowdfunding sites (e.g. Kickstarter) obviously care because they don't let anyone in the door without a prototype. The reasons they require one are pretty obvious too; projects without a prototype frequently end up failing to deliver any rewards (e.g. Gameband) and even when they do, there are often long delays and they undergo significant changes from the original pitch, like the VCS did.

 

Indiegogo is considered the Wild West of crowdfunding for not having such standards. Atari obviously had good reasons for going there.

[+Sauron]

2 minutes ago, Shaggy the Atarian said:

Just with you, Leech and zzip, but if you want to find out how I always am on here, feel free to spend time looking through all my posts!  Perhaps you can read some more emotions and tone into the posts of a "retard."

That image wasn't aimed specifically at you, but towards everyone who has been participating in that completely pointless argument. Just so you know.

 

[82-T/A]

1 minute ago, Shaggy the Atarian said:

Just with you, Leech and zzip, but if you want to find out how I always am on here, feel free to spend time looking through all my posts!  Perhaps you can read some more emotions and tone into the posts of a "retard."

Just saying that we can relax a little bit. You get in kind what you throw out. If you get aggressive towards someone, they get aggressive back. 
 

The things we’re discussing here are so nerdy that even Sheldon would be embarrassed to associate with any of us. Certainly not worthy of the mental angst I’m seeing in these posts. We’re all good...

[CPUWIZ]

1 minute ago, 82-T/A said:

relax a little bit

 

Yes, go smoke some weed, or take a chill pill.  It's just a piece of plastic.