It’s okay to like the VCS.

[leech]

14 minutes ago, Matt_B said:

Who really cares about the Atari branding? Did any of you buy the Atari Raspberry Pi, every single model of the Flashback and all the handhelds? If so, fair enough. You're beyond help. Hope you enjoy the VCS just as much as you did all those. ?

 

If not, I'd think that you ought to be capable of judging it on its merits.

 

Regarding the Raspberry Pi, I'd think that the main thing that's always been going for it is that it's very cheap. Having low power consumption and being very compact helps, but it's usually to be found filling the sort of niches that people don't fancy paying the thick end of $400 to get something that might do the job a little bit better.

 

Realistically, $400 gets you a fair amount of PC hardware or, if you're only interested in games or media, at least one model of any of the modern home console platforms and probably a bit of change too. That's really the yardstick against which you've got to justify it.

Ha, now days you can't even get a low end GPU for 400. 

 

In my mind the VCS is NOT for Atari 2600/7800 etc games.  As you say, you can buy a sub 50 dollar set uo, including a cheap ass gamepad and play those on an RPi. 

The VCS is kind of like the Switch.  It is for low to medium graphical indie games, or if you are so inclined, install Linux and use it as a Steam Machine. 

I personally don't see the usefulness of installing Windows on it as you can get any old cheap laptop at Wal-mart for that (a friend of mine did that and it had Windows in 'S' mode...)

[+5-11under]

8 hours ago, Matt_B said:

Regarding the Raspberry Pi, I'd think that the main thing that's always been going for it is that it's very cheap. Having low power consumption and being very compact helps, but it's usually to be found filling the sort of niches that people don't fancy paying the thick end of $400 to get something that might do the job a little bit better.

 

8 hours ago, leech said:

Ha, now days you can't even get a low end GPU for 400. 

 

In my mind the VCS is NOT for Atari 2600/7800 etc games.  As you say, you can buy a sub 50 dollar set uo, including a cheap ass gamepad and play those on an RPi. 

The VCS is kind of like the Switch.  It is for low to medium graphical indie games, or if you are so inclined, install Linux and use it as a Steam Machine. 

I personally don't see the usefulness of installing Windows on it as you can get any old cheap laptop at Wal-mart for that (a friend of mine did that and it had Windows in 'S' mode...)

The Raspberry Pi has a market space... it's cheap and in this application, can play thousands of games.

I've heard the VCS compared to Amico and Switch now. I don't think so. The Amico market will be family friendly entertainment. The Switch market is typically kids who want to play usually modern games, including many with the classic Nintendo characters, and can be played portable or docked. The markets aren't limited, of course, and I'm sure there's plenty of other reasons a person could buy a Pi, Amico, or Switch. (I also don't mean to argue the market space - what I wrote is just my opinion, and I don't have time to write a whole essay about them). Anyway, the VCS, from what I've read in this thread, is basically just a PC... which is perfectly fine, of course, but that's nothing special, as someone can buy one of hundreds of new and used models in all sorts of shapes and sizes and budgets.

[youxia]

9 hours ago, leech said:

It is for low to medium graphical indie games, or if you are so inclined, install Linux and use it as a Steam Machine.

You can get a cheap laptop for that too.

 

The point is, VCS isn't anything special. The original one was, and still is: the games for it will run only on the original machine, or in some sort of emulator. But this VCS is a PC, so even if there's something releasesed exclusively on the Atari store, I could in theory run it on my PC too. And the value of  the "Atari" branding itself is extremely subjective, given their modern history (for me, and many others, = 0, if not a negative value).

 

Granted, it actually represents a not-too-bad value for money as a mini PC a the moment, but that's only because of the topsy-turvy world we live in now, thanks to Covid. If not for that, there would be much better solutions in its price range.

[zzip]

2 hours ago, 5-11under said:

I've heard the VCS compared to Amico and Switch now. I don't think so. The Amico market will be family friendly entertainment. The Switch market is typically kids who want to play usually modern games, including many with the classic Nintendo characters, and can be played portable or docked. The markets aren't limited, of course, and I'm sure there's plenty of other reasons a person could buy a Pi, Amico, or Switch.

I don't think Switch is really a comparison..    Nobody is going to say "Should a get a Switch or a VCS"?

 

I think Amico is a fair comparison though.   Amico might be positioned as "the family-friendly console", but is that really who's going to buy it?   I suspect it will appeal more to retro fans as families continue to buy Switches.

 

2 hours ago, youxia said:

The point is, VCS isn't anything special. The original one was, and still is: the games for it will run only on the original machine, or in some sort of emulator. But this VCS is a PC, so even if there's something releasesed exclusively on the Atari store, I could in theory run it on my PC too. And the value of  the "Atari" branding itself is extremely subjective, given their modern history (for me, and many others, = 0, if not a negative value).

A lot of people seem to wish for a proprietary console instead.   But let's be real here,  what games can Atari really bring to make a proprietary console compelling?    Making it a PC is actually its best feature.   It's an insurance policy that in case Atari fails to adequately support it, it won't go to waste.

[AlecRob]

Can a mod unban me from the Atari VCS info thread? I promise I will behave

 

 

also the VCS being “merely a PC” is probably my #1 favorite quality the machine has.  Since I was a kid i always wanted a game console with stock PC chipset inside.  The Atari branding/design just adds some aesthetic value. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯  

 

I wont claim the VCS is for EVERYONE, but if you are a hardcore atari fan that is interested in the history and future of the brand I think the machine is a must-have, being the first real hardware system produced by the company since they were owned by the Tramiels nearly 30 years ago.

 

I’d also recommend the VCS to people that like hacking/softmodding consoles like the wii and xbox and mini systems like NES or Playstation Mini.  It’s the perfect retro-modern rom/homebrew/DOSbox station and looks nicer under your TV or on your desk than a lot of other options.   It doesnt even need an exploit...

 

of course I’m kicking a dead horse here, I just enjoy my Atari VCS 3200. It’s quite an underrated system   Team VCS 4lyfe. It gives otherwise bland and generic looking PC hardware some much needed flare. 

Edited March 25, 2021 by AlecRob

[Mockduck]

On 3/24/2021 at 10:38 AM, zzip said:

I don't think Switch is really a comparison..    Nobody is going to say "Should a get a Switch or a VCS"?

 

I think Amico is a fair comparison though.   Amico might be positioned as "the family-friendly console", but is that really who's going to buy it?   I suspect it will appeal more to retro fans as families continue to buy Switches.

 

A lot of people seem to wish for a proprietary console instead.   But let's be real here,  what games can Atari really bring to make a proprietary console compelling?    Making it a PC is actually its best feature.   It's an insurance policy that in case Atari fails to adequately support it, it won't go to waste.

I think the Switch is actually Atari's current lead competitor, mostly because of the "Nintendo is a family console" history, the Switch's good indie and big budget Nintendo library (ok, maybe don't play too many 3rd party AAA's on it, but for everything else...), and most importantly its $299 price point. It is unlikely Atari will get even a fraction of Nintendo's user base or worldwide revenue, but I'd expect some folks to want to decide between the two for their family or self. The Switch offers portable gaming and big N gaming, but is getting a bit old lifecycle-wise, and its tech was fairly low end when it debuted. The VCS offers a PC/console hybrid and a retro focus. The VCS will definitely be cheaper to buy for long-term, since Nintendo only rarely discounts its $50-60 games throughout the entirety of the console's life and doesn't have a habit of lowering their game MSRP over time. So far I've probably played as much VCS as I have Switch even though I've had a Switch for years now, but that is more about me liking not loving the Switch and truly hating those terrible Joycons. 

[AlecRob]

Screw the switch and its shit controllers.

[+x=usr(1536)]

27 minutes ago, AlecRob said:

Screw the switch and its shit controllers.

That has totally stuck it to The Switch-Owning Man.

[Cebus Capucinis]

No, it's not okay.

 

Sent from my Atari VCS using Tapatalk

[leech]

On 3/25/2021 at 12:59 PM, x=usr(1536) said:

That has totally stuck it to The Switch-Owning Man.

Ha, you know what I don't get?  The Switch Joy-cons are pretty shit.  Yet the Pro controller is one of the best feeling ones I own.  Though in general I use my eSwap Pro controller everywhere.

[youxia]

On 3/25/2021 at 8:37 AM, AlecRob said:

looks nicer under your TV or on your desk than a lot of other options

Protip: next time you make photos aiming to show neat desk arrangements, don't leave jars with some repulsive substances in the foreground  

[+x=usr(1536)]

6 hours ago, leech said:

Ha, you know what I don't get?  The Switch Joy-cons are pretty shit.  Yet the Pro controller is one of the best feeling ones I own.  Though in general I use my eSwap Pro controller everywhere.

Yeah, I'm not a fan of the joy-cons either.  They more or less work and I like the concepts that Nintendo was experimenting with in their design, but in the real world they're just not all that great.

 

I can't remember if we've rebuilt the same one twice or both of them once, but the jitter issue is very real.

[AlecRob]

2 hours ago, youxia said:

Protip: next time you make photos aiming to show neat desk arrangements, don't leave jars with some repulsive substances in the foreground  

One jar is empty, one is ice water and lemon juice, one jar is kratom powder.

[TACODON]

I check this side of the forum (forem) once a month now. I get a laugh and move on.

 

If you like the Box, enjoy it.

If you hate the box, I get it.

 

Neither side is going to change the opinion of the other side at this point.

[MrBeefy]

On 3/23/2021 at 3:18 AM, AlecRob said:

I wish Atariage would embrace the VCS.  It’s funny how people complain its not powerful enough.... We are ATARI FANS.  We celebrate a console from 1977...  The new VCS could be a fantastic workhorse and destination for homebrews and enthusiast software. The community could make this thing great, like the dreamcast, or wii homebrew scene. Or raspberry pi.  It’s a versatile board.   Look at that PCB, theres an atari logo silkscreened right on it.  When was last time you saw a new piece of computer hardware officially bearing that badge?   Everyone who loves atari should get a VCS, its a monumental occasion in the history of the brand.  The post jaguar/CD atari hardware saga begins.    I like how the system is basically just a single chip, much better than the jaguars architecture. 

I think the problem with wanting everyone to embrace it is with this question.

 

If it didn't have the Atari name attached to it would you have cared or been excited for it?

 

The name got me excited at first, but beyond the looks of it I can get this product elsewhere for a similar or cheaper price without the need to mod it to make it worthwhile.

 

Things should be embraced because they are good. Not just because of the name attached.

[TACODON]

Beefy hits the nail on the head with that post.

[leech]

2 hours ago, MrBeefy said:

I think the problem with wanting everyone to embrace it is with this question.

 

If it didn't have the Atari name attached to it would you have cared or been excited for it?

 

The name got me excited at first, but beyond the looks of it I can get this product elsewhere for a similar or cheaper price without the need to mod it to make it worthwhile.

 

Things should be embraced because they are good. Not just because of the name attached.

Yeah, makes me sad that all the new consoles are basically generic hardware these days.  Even the Switch is a board you could get and install Android / Linux on it.

 

The reason you buy a game console is basically for exclusives or convenience.  A computer is, overall a much better system for playing games on, as you have all the options of playing with game controllers or keyboard / mouse.  But then you also have the fact that a mid-to high end GPU is more expensive than any game console...

 

People complain that the VCS is too expensive and underpowered, yet the same people most likely have video cards that were 500-1000...

 

Anyone remember when the PS3 came out, and everyone complained how expensive it was?  It still sold like crazy because the PS2 was insanely successful!  As others have stated, these days 300 bucks for a lower powered system, that if so desired can act as a bit better than most laptops for general computer use is right around that pricepoint where someone might pick up randomly.

 

300 may seem like a lot, but I probably spend more than that on random shit on Amazon in any given week...

 

Ha, I just looked with an inflation calculator.  The 2020 VCS would have been 69 dollars in 1977...

[+x=usr(1536)]

1 hour ago, leech said:

Anyone remember when the PS3 came out, and everyone complained how expensive it was?  It still sold like crazy because the PS2 was insanely successful!  As others have stated, these days 300 bucks for a lower powered system, that if so desired can act as a bit better than most laptops for general computer use is right around that pricepoint where someone might pick up randomly.

True, but part of what made the PS3 so expensive was its inclusion of a Blu-Ray drive.  It was still the cheapest Blu-Ray player on the market, though - I can remember dedicated players going for upwards of $1000 at retail at the time of the PS3's launch.

 

What's amusing is that Sony desperately wanted Blu-Ray to become the dominant media format over HD-DVD, and it did manage that.  But it managed to do it right as transitioning to digital streaming was going to make it de facto obsolete.  Blu-Ray is still with US 15 years after its launch, but only about half of that has had any serious relevance in the marketplace.

Edited April 2, 2021 by x=usr(1536)

[zzip]

12 hours ago, TACODON said:

I check this side of the forum (forem) once a month now. I get a laugh and move on.

 

If you like the Box, enjoy it.

If you hate the box, I get it.

 

Neither side is going to change the opinion of the other side at this point.

For me it was never about changing the opinion of the haters,  I don't care if you don't like it.    What I didn't like is how the detractors took over every VCS thread and turned it into a taco thread, so it was basically impossible to have civil discussions about an Atari device on an Atari board.

 

Now that the device released, that's changed, finally.

1 hour ago, leech said:

Yeah, makes me sad that all the new consoles are basically generic hardware these days.  Even the Switch is a board you could get and install Android / Linux on it.

it's because that hardware is now so advanced, if you rolled your own from scratch it would be missing features, it would probably be more expensive because you lose the economy of scale, you have to create a whole new OS , new development toolchain instead of using something readily available, and developers would have a steeper learning curve porting to it.

 

I think if this stuff as building blocks of a system.  If you want to design a new house, you aren't going to want to reinvent the brick, nail, toilet or plumbing.  At some point it makes sense to take a proven design and build off that.

 

1 hour ago, leech said:

People complain that the VCS is too expensive and underpowered, yet the same people most likely have video cards that were 500-1000...

Yeah to me that's a waste of money.   The visual improvements you get for the money spent just isn't worth it anymore,  you especially don't notice it when the game is in motion--   you're watching for enemies and don't have time to notice whether they are rendered at 1440p or 4K.  In a few years, the mainstream cards will have the capabilities of the $1000 cards, maybe even more.

 

1 hour ago, leech said:

Ha, I just looked with an inflation calculator.  The 2020 VCS would have been 69 dollars in 1977...

yeah but you could have gotten a better PC for $50  /s  

 

1 hour ago, leech said:

300 may seem like a lot, but I probably spend more than that on random shit on Amazon in any given week...

Our generation is in our peak earning years now when spending money on something like that isn't that big a deal for many.  I think that's the reason  that products like the VCS are popping up, and Atari hotels, etc-   Looking to cash in on Gen-X nostalgia

[leech]

20 minutes ago, x=usr(1536) said:

True, but part of what made the PS3 so expensive was its inclusion of a Blu-Ray drive.  It was still the cheapest Blu-Ray player on the market, though - I can remember dedicated players going for upwards of $1000 at retail at the time of the PS3's launch.

 

What's amusing is that Sony desperately wanted Blu-Ray to become the dominant media format over HD-DVD, and it did manage that.  But it managed to do it right as transitioning to digital streaming was going to make it de facto obsolete.  Blu-Ray is still with US 15 years after its launch, but only about half of that has had any serious relevance in the marketplace.

Ha, I must be remembering this differently, as sure some streaming was around, but good 1080p streaming wasn't for many years.  hell, most in the US still can't get high enough bandwidth for decent streaming.

[leech]

26 minutes ago, zzip said:

it's because that hardware is now so advanced, if you rolled your own from scratch it would be missing features, it would probably be more expensive because you lose the economy of scale, you have to create a whole new OS , new development toolchain instead of using something readily available, and developers would have a steeper learning curve porting to it.

 

I think if this stuff as building blocks of a system.  If you want to design a new house, you aren't going to want to reinvent the brick, nail, toilet or plumbing.  At some point it makes sense to take a proven design and build off that.

Oh, I get it.  Just makes them less interesting in my eyes.  Like the PS3 was the last awesome tech shoved into a game console. 

27 minutes ago, zzip said:

yeah but you could have gotten a better PC for $50  /s  

a Raspberry Pi is not a better computer (performance wise) than the VCS.  Nor should anyone expect it to be. 

[zzip]

11 minutes ago, leech said:

a Raspberry Pi is not a better computer (performance wise) than the VCS.  Nor should anyone expect it to be. 

that was meant to be a joke comment - since someone always mentions that you can get a better micro-PC for less.    A VCS that was $69 in 1977 would seem like it even that woudn't be good enough--  even though there were no PC's then

[MrBeefy]

So does the VCS have an exclusive killer app? Or are a majority of people just using it as a Steambox/PC?

[mr_me]

I don't think they ever said there would be exclusives.  Even games that Atari SA produced are on other platforms.

[MrBeefy]

On 4/2/2021 at 3:11 PM, mr_me said:

I don't think they ever said there would be exclusives.  Even games that Atari SA produced are on other platforms.

I didn't think they did. Just curious if something had changed.