Clone Jaguar console - maybe one day?

[Koopa64]

So there's quite a thriving homebrew and indie game scene for the Jaguar, lots of cartridge stuff being made, there's even an SD cartridge coming one day.

 

But the consoles are getting more and more scarce, they're extremely expensive on places like eBay. I haven't been around in forever. Is there going to eventually be a new clone Jaguar system so the rest of us can get one and play some new Jag games? Is there any hope for a Jaguar clone? Is there a legal or technical limitation?

[Wilco]

Emulation isn’t good enough to run every single game perfectly so I doubt it. 

[+LS650]

I just don't think the demand is there for anything hardware based.  I think that it's much more likely we'll see improved software emulation in Windows, Linux, Android, etc.

 

[Bill Loguidice]

As with most platforms, I can see an FPGA implementation for some of the existing or future platforms being developed one day, perhaps, but as others have stated, there's unlikely to ever be any type of reasonable market for something more specific. The platform never had and never will have broad enough appeal.

[phoboz]

There was a project to clone the Jaguar hardware on FPGA. The work was based on the real netlists from the Tom&Jerry chips, which were made public when the Jaguar was declared an open platform.

I don't know what happened with the FPGA core, but the most specific part for developing a clone system should already be there, as the FPGA core is open source. The other parts, such as the 68000 CPU etc. are off the shelf components. Of course a major part would be to integrate all of this in the end.

 

https://www.retrorgb.com/mister-atari-jaguar-core-launched.html

 

However, such clone console would probably not be cheaper than a second hand Jaguar console off eBay, as the Tom&Jerry chips require quite a large FPGA, e.g. expensive FPGA.

I doubt that the volume would be big enough to motivate re-implemention of Tom&Jerry as ASICs, even if these are cheap per unit, it is very expensive to set up production for the first time.

Edited December 20, 2020 by phoboz

[+CyranoJ]

The mister jaguar core is hopelessly broken and quite useless in its current state. 

 

 

[phoboz]

33 minutes ago, CyranoJ said:

The mister jaguar clone is hopelessly broken and quite useless in its current state. 

 

 

To bad that no one is investing time in it 

 

However, I do not see any lack of second hand Jaguar consoles in Sweden.

So I am not afraid it will hard to find in the future.

 

The system was quite hyped when it came during the 90's, so most video rental shops had them...

A lot of these consoles are being sold now, as well as games in rental boxes.

(actually I like the rental boxes more than the ones for the consumer market, as it's much easier to get access to the cartridge inside them)

[SparkTR]

I'd love for this to be a thing, the Atari Jaguar is so poorly emulated, or not emulated at all in terms of the CD attachment. It's insane that (according to Wikipedia) only 9.8 thousand devices left in the world can play great games like Battlemorph or Hoverstrike CD.

[pacman000]

With Jag consoles becoming increasingly scarce, it might eventually become practical to develop a clone, if demand remains constant. But I’d still expect a clone to be expensive, probably even more expensive than a used system today.

TL;DR We’ll only get a clone when demand when demand outstrips the supply of original systems.

[+CyranoJ]

Calling @SCPCD to the MiSTer framework

[+Starwander]

There has been some discussion about making the Jag-Duo system as the mother board was located. I know there has been design work so far towards making this happen. 

[Zerosquare]

You still need the original custom chips. Best Electronics sells them, but I don't know how much they have left, nor how expensive they are.

[Mikebloke]

Would make sense to do a clone of the JagDuo rather than the original Jaguar itself. A bigger project would be Jaguar 2 as its supposed to be back compatable I believe, with 8MB RAM, potential for N64ish level of games? 

 

It would be deadly expensive to produce no doubt, but how many of us would buy one anyway? 

[phoboz]

1 minute ago, Mikebloke said:

Would make sense to do a clone of the JagDuo rather than the original Jaguar itself. A bigger project would be Jaguar 2 as its supposed to be back compatable I believe, with 8MB RAM, potential for N64ish level of games? 

 

It would be deadly expensive to produce no doubt, but how many of us would buy one anyway? 

Is the Jaguar 2 hardware also an open platform, e.g. are things like the netlists for the custom chipset available?

[Mikebloke]

1 minute ago, phoboz said:

Is the Jaguar 2 hardware also an open platform, e.g. are things like the netlists for the custom chipset available?

I doubt it (being an open platform) but legally it seems to be quite a muddy legal area. Clone systems and FPGA based hardware seems to have become an acceptable consumer good, surely an unreleased device thats now heavily outperformed would be safe too... 

 

Not for me to risk, but I'm sure given what's on the open market now, it might be possible! 

[+cubanismo]

1 hour ago, phoboz said:

Would make sense to do a clone of the JagDuo rather than the original Jaguar itself.

I've been wondering (since I've nothing better to do than dwell on tangents of hypotheticals and dreams) whether this would cause issues with game drives though, given it doesn't work with the CD unit installed from what I've gathered.

[+Sauron]

58 minutes ago, cubanismo said:

I've been wondering (since I've nothing better to do than dwell on tangents of hypotheticals and dreams) whether this would cause issues with game drives though, given it doesn't work with the CD unit installed from what I've gathered.

Yeah, with the Jag GD, there simply will be no more need for a Jag CD once CD (and VLM) emulation is perfected. 

 

[joeatari1]

Might I suggest this thread.

 

 

 

[PeterG]

2 hours ago, Sauron said:

Yeah, with the Jag GD, there simply will be no more need for a Jag CD once CD (and VLM) emulation is perfected. 

 

Part of me is somehow a bit sad that some of the jaguar's hardware becomes even more obsolete than it already was, on the other hand is really nice, that the new stuff is replacing the old in good ways. I was thinking about the Catbox which moved in a box after using it for video out for many years and soon with the Jag CD... Looking forward to having the VLM on the Jag GD too. Makes it much easier to transport if we can have Jagfests again in the future...

[sn8k]

If there is a Jag duo, im in. I regret not getting a Jaguar from Best Electronics when they were $250 sealed.  Now they're like 600.

[Arcadia]

7 hours ago, Sauron said:

Yeah, with the Jag GD, there simply will be no more need for a Jag CD once CD (and VLM) emulation is perfected. 

 

Only if sales of homebrew software locked to the Jag GD takes off, there's no denying the cheap production of homebrew titles for CD versus cartridge. Only thing holding it back is the lack of Jag CD's out there.

[+CyranoJ]

10 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

Only if sales of homebrew software locked to the Jag GD takes off, there's no denying the cheap production of homebrew titles for CD versus cartridge. Only thing holding it back is the lack of Jag CD's out there.

 

Wrong.

 

The thing holding it (CDs) back is only having 2mb of direct access memory.

 

Rebooteroids/Last Strike/Gravitic Mines, quite a few of the ports, and several other homebrew games would not be possible on CD due to using data directly from ROM.

[Koopa64]

On 12/20/2020 at 5:43 PM, phoboz said:

To bad that no one is investing time in it 

 

However, I do not see any lack of second hand Jaguar consoles in Sweden.

So I am not afraid it will hard to find in the future.

 

The system was quite hyped when it came during the 90's, so most video rental shops had them...

A lot of these consoles are being sold now, as well as games in rental boxes.

(actually I like the rental boxes more than the ones for the consumer market, as it's much easier to get access to the cartridge inside them)

Meanwhile in Canada, they are extremely hard to find and very expensive. Even in the USA it seems, Jaguars are very uncommon.

[+LS650]

1 hour ago, Koopa64 said:

Meanwhile in Canada, they are extremely hard to find and very expensive. Even in the USA it seems, Jaguars are very uncommon.

I follow the used videogame consoles on the local Craiglist, and I've only ever seen a Jaguar once.  They did not sell in large numbers in Canada.

If you want one, eBay is pretty much your only option.

[phoboz]

6 hours ago, Koopa64 said:

Meanwhile in Canada, they are extremely hard to find and very expensive. Even in the USA it seems, Jaguars are very uncommon.

I think it has to do with the awareness about the Jaguar. Many retro collectors here are very young, who have only heard tales from their parents about Nintendo, and SEGA. So the prices for the good games for these systems are insane. I think once people discover that the Jaguar can actually offer better 2D pixel graphics than than the 16-bit Nintendo, and SEGA consoles the demand for the Jaguar will become higher. Of course the Jag will also need more games, but there are some new games being developed for the system.

For me as a game developer it lies in my interest that as many people as possible can get access to the console to play the games.

Edited December 22, 2020 by phoboz