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Pre-order period for “The Sorrow of Gadhlan’ Thur” (Kai Magazine) for Intellivision begins.

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1 hour ago, Emanuele said:

Ok for me. A fair price could be 20-25 $.

 

W Oscar! Your games are excellent!

Thank you Emanuele, for your feedback and for your constant support ^_^

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27 minutes ago, Kai_Magazine said:

Regarding a Demo:

It would be very easy if this was an arcade or a game divided in stages.

This is a "Metroidvania" game (the first one on Intellivision), a genre where there is freedom of movement on an open world, exploration, many objects and each new ability allows you to reach new areas scattered all over the world.

Exploration and freedom are THE esential soul of this game. There is no way that I can think of of making a demo version of this game without destroying its soul, its core, its real charm.

To limit the exploration in any way would mean to break the game and to create the wrong impression of the game.

Actually one of the best moments/parts is when you have access to the whole world and you can spend time exploring every corner in order to find secret items that will give you an advantadge and that will fill your inventory screen (completionism).

To cut any of this from the game in order to make it a demo is an aberration to me. I can't do it.

 

Anyway the main option that is being discussed here is to offer the rom for free to those who preordered the game already, with the only caviat being that if the worst case scenario happens or the pre-orderer (is that a word?) wishes a refund, the price of the rom would be substracted from the refund.

Considering that chances are that Joe will eventually provide the carts, that caviat is just a foot note, but it needs to be said and agreed upon.

 

I understand. I just thought I would offer something different. I have fine with a ROM now, following by CIB (or worst-case, refund minus ROM cost). If the worst-case comes to be, I also would like the chance to purchase the printed materials (since those are done to help defray KM's costs)

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1 hour ago, cmadruga said:

1. Make the rom available to whoever preordered the game. Accepting the rom would mean forgoing part of the refund. 

2. Same as #1, but with the added possibility of getting the empty box, manual, overlays, label shipped ahead of the cart. That would also mean forgoing another portion of the refund. Additional shipping cost would be incurred as well when the cart is received.

Both these options are fine for me.👍

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6 hours ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

I waited far longer for Paprium and Pier Solar. There are other games (Not intellivision related) that I prepaid in full for a year ago that I've not heard much about. So, I'm a patient guy and willing to wait it out.

 

 

The big difference is, that Fonzie is a huge scammer jerk, with a god complex. 

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52 minutes ago, Ignorama said:

 

The big difference is, that Fonzie is a huge scammer jerk, with a god complex. 

My point was that there have been several times where I've waited in excess of a year for a game and I've not complained or requested a refund. I don't know Fonzie personally or know enough about him to make any kind of assumptions or conclusions about who he is as a person. I only know that communication was extremely lacking and more communication would have gone a long way for Watermelon Games.

 

So again, I'm fine with waiting until the carts are made and ready to go.

 

Now, if for some reason it should be decided that the carts are never going to be made, then sure I would be on board with a ROM release so at least the game is out there for enthusiasts to play and enjoy.

 

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Personally, I would prefer to pay extra for the ROM separately, but either option regarding the ROM works for me. Whatever works better for Kai_Magazine.

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I, too, am willing to wait - I haven't had any desire to request any refunds, etc.  I know how things have been over the last year+ with trying to source materials during this pandemic.

 

If you decide to give up on getting carts from LTO, I'd be interested in getting the box, manual, etc. and getting a rom instead.

 

I'm sorry about the stress you've had over this - it's always worse when it's out of your control.

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I think many of us understand we've got supply constraints occurring right now, and I'm willing to wait for CIB. Also, I'd probably go for a ROM purchase if the price is in line with other recent ROM releases. 

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On 10/10/2021 at 5:20 PM, wolfy62 said:

I know that is probably not the way the majority of folks feel,but at least for me that's fine.

You should not be penalized for all your hard work and efforts put into trying to make this hapoen.

The money I put in is way behind me in the rear view mirror by now.

I would hate for this situation to hinder you in any way moving forward in developing other great games for myself and all Intellivision game players and collectors. That's it!😊

I completely agree with wolfy62 and many others, surely Kai don't have to suffer from the situation.

 

My personal view is as follow:

 

1) no refunds at all, never (if not requested)

 

2) if strictly necessary, shipping all printed material (box, manual, overlays, labels and/or anything else) to the pre-order peoples

 

3) give the opportunity/option to separate buy LTO crypted or free uncrypted ROM at different prices (of your choice)

 

4) if the board will be produced, pay another shipping cost (or more, in the case the production have some increase of cost) at the time will be ready.

 

5) optionally give us the 3D printer cartridge shell project file, in order to be able to "auto produce" it by ourselves.

 

Obviously, as many of us, I'm ready to wait much longer for the CIB then will be ready in a way or another, but if it's time for a decision about, surely my mine rule is "Support Kai in all the best way possible".

 

Thank you @Kai_Magazine for all your efforts 🙂👍

 

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Thank you everyone for your feedback and support!

 

MIK710_0Regarding: 3) give the opportunity/option to separate buy LTO crypted or free uncrypted ROM at different prices (of your choice)

We cannot LTO encrypt the roms, the only one who can do it is Joe from LTO. He is THE pillar of the Intellivision homebrew community. Most developers/publishers depend on him for encryption, boards and cart shells.

 

Regarding: 5) optionally give us the 3D printer cartridge shell project file, in order to be able to "auto produce" it by ourselves.

There aren't any available. I did see on Facebook Oscar Toledo was working on a cartridge shell prototype but I don't know if it is finished or publicly available.

In order to produce the whole cart by yourselves you still need the board from LTO. The game will not fit on any other board.

 

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23 hours ago, mdoerty said:

To the best of my knowledge, this is not the only game stalled in pre-order, waiting for LTO to manufacture. 

 

"Manufacturing" is not the issue. The boards already exist and are sitting on Joe's stair landing. 

 

If I can get in contact with him, I'll suggest that he get his wife to mail me cartridges and let me put the game on them and forward them. And, when I say cartridges, I mean shells and circuit boards. JLP3 boards only fit in LTO shells. 

 

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2 hours ago, Games For Your Intellivision said:

"Manufacturing" is not the issue. The boards already exist and are sitting on Joe's stair landing. 

That's the most frustrating part of this. If the delay were due to the chip shortage overseas or something, it would be more understandable. But since it's just Joe being busy, that is more than a bit off-putting. No one is too busy to send an email or two and ship a box of boards/carts to someone else to complete, especially in an effort to "make good" on an outstanding order (or five) and to help get a project like this incredible game across the finish line.

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1 minute ago, sixersfan105 said:

That's the most frustrating part of this. If the delay were due to the chip shortage overseas or something, it would be more understandable. But since it's just Joe being busy, that is more than a bit off-putting. No one is too busy to send an email or two and ship a box of boards/carts to someone else to complete, especially in an effort to "make good" on an outstanding order (or five) and to help get a project like this incredible game across the finish line.

I think that you are speaking a bit out of ignorance with regards to this issue. The "order" is simply a request. It is not like paid for cartridges being delayed. No paid orders are outstanding. Also, if you were in meetings from 9am - 6pm every day, and then worked from 7pm - 2am, and then slept and woke up and did it all again, you'd probably be a little more sympathetic. 

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1 hour ago, Games For Your Intellivision said:

I think that you are speaking a bit out of ignorance with regards to this issue. The "order" is simply a request. It is not like paid for cartridges being delayed. No paid orders are outstanding. Also, if you were in meetings from 9am - 6pm every day, and then worked from 7pm - 2am, and then slept and woke up and did it all again, you'd probably be a little more sympathetic. 

You're right that I don't know Joe's work schedule. But if those are his hours, then that further reinforces that perhaps he coordinate with someone who has more time so he can take a hiatus while outstanding orders still get fulfilled. Also seems like he could use more of a work/life balance in any event. You're also right that I didn't know if these outstanding orders, requests, whatever you want to call them, were paid up front or not. Regardless of the payment status (I'm glad to hear no money exchanged hands), there was at the very least an expectation and most likely a given date or window of when they would be ready (speaking to this game in particular), and based on context clues we are past that and it also sounds as though he's gone radio silent, which is unprofessional and rude, no matter how you slice it. 

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1 hour ago, sixersfan105 said:

You're right that I don't know Joe's work schedule. But if those are his hours, then that further reinforces that perhaps he coordinate with someone who has more time so he can take a hiatus while outstanding orders still get fulfilled. Also seems like he could use more of a work/life balance in any event. You're also right that I didn't know if these outstanding orders, requests, whatever you want to call them, were paid up front or not. Regardless of the payment status (I'm glad to hear no money exchanged hands), there was at the very least an expectation and most likely a given date or window of when they would be ready (speaking to this game in particular), and based on context clues we are past that and it also sounds as though he's gone radio silent, which is unprofessional and rude, no matter how you slice it. 

There have been no promises made and not fulfilled by Left Turn Only. Again, this is not an 'outstanding order'. The amount of support that Left Turn Only gives to the entire community is far greater than is publicly known and it isn't my place to list it in detail. That being said, the fact is that pre-orders were done before cartridges were secured. That's not LTO's fault. It is not for anyone to say that supporting this community is more important than INTVnut's day job.

 

Being an intelligent person, don't you think that if he expected to be involved in a 10 month long daily 16 hour grind, he would have made arrangements to at least ensure continued cartridge supply? It was totally unexpected. This was supposed to be a '3 month push'. It's gone on much much longer than that on a daily basis. I am sure he COULD use a better 'work/life' balance, but what do you suggest he do? Quit his job to support the Intellivision homebrew community fulltime?

 

He's gone 'radio silent' because he has far too much on his plate and something had to give. Even if he wanted to monitor his LTO emails, he'd have to sift through hundreds of requests for LTO Flash! and other requests for support. It is unfortunate that his day job has been so taxing on him, but it is what it is. When I last spoke to him in July, he figured that this '3 month push' would probably be over by now. That was clearly communicated by myself. Since I've not heard from him, I can only assume that it isn't. I'm sure that when he comes back that sending out cartridges to Oscar and myself will be his top priorities. IF he still is excessively busy, I can take over programming his cartridges, as currently, I am the only person with the tools to do it. I am sure that if you ask for a refund, that Oscar will kindly give you one if you no longer wish to wait. I don't want to pay to have Robot Army, Infiltrator, Cat Attack!!!, Star Mercenary and The Pandora Incident reprogrammed to support a different cartridge, so I'm patiently waiting for LTO to come back online. I'd like to release all of those games right now, but I don't have the cartridges. If I thought that it wouldn't be soon, I'd be making other plans for the future, but that's not the case. 

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"the fact is that pre-orders were done before cartridges were secured. That's not LTO's fault."

 

I don't intend to put anyone in a bad spot but I need to clarify something:

I asked Joe if he could provide me with the carts BEFORE we started the pre-order and he confirmed it.

Also, just when the pre-order period was about to finish he confirmed he had 100 carts for us.

I still have the emails just in case someone doubts my word.

 

 

 


 

 

 

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Just now, Kai_Magazine said:

"the fact is that pre-orders were done before cartridges were secured. That's not LTO's fault."

 

I don't intend to put anyone in a bad spot but I need to clarify something:

I asked Joe if he could provide me with the carts BEFORE we started the pre-order and he confirmed it.

Also, just when the pre-order period was about to finish he confirmed he had 100 carts for us.

I still have the emails just in case someone doubts my word.

 

 

That's fine. I don't disbelieve you. I am not privy to your emails with LTO. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I do not believe that he's failed to send out paid for cartridges. 

 

He's not doing this to spite anyone and if he has two minutes to himself, doing Intellivision stuff is just not on the agenda. 

 

A re-write to support a different cartridge, or waiting are the only two options I see at the moment. 

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I just posted my last message in order to clarify an error, not to put Joe in a bad spot.

And for the same reason I must also add that I did offer to pay him the cartridges in full many times, even before the pre-order finished and even before (and after) he stated he had 100 carts for me, but he never replied to my request for payment.

Again, I am not saying this out of my free will, I am saying this just because I must respond to what you said and I need things to be 100% crystal clear for everyone. I just wish to avoid speculation based on the things that you are saying regarding to me, so I really need to clarify those things. 

Edited by Kai_Magazine
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12 minutes ago, Kai_Magazine said:

I just posted my last message in order to clarify an error, not to put Joe in a bad spot.

And for the same reason I must also add that I did offer to pay him the cartridges in full many times, even before the pre-order finished and even before (and after) he stated he had 100 carts for me, but he never replied to my request for payment.

Again, I am not saing this out of my free will, just because I must respond to what you said and I need things to be 100% crystal clear for everyone.

 

Edited by Games For Your Intellivision
TMI

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Moving on:

 

Yesterday I posted an update about what it has been discussed in this thread.

I see the feedback has pretty much stopped by now, so we are moving forward;

 

After gathering all the feedback that you guys gave over the last 2 or 3 days here, at this moment I can offer the following (which is pretty much everything you guys asked for and I could do at this moment):

 

I've put the rom for sale on the Kai Magazine Software store, compatible with LTO Flash and jzintv emulator.

The price is 17 Euro, which (today) is less than $20, which is the lowest amount that has been suggested. The digital release contains digital versions of the cover (box), manual, overlays and cartridge sticker.

 

https://kai-magazine-software.fwscart.com/product_preview/p4398489_21444598.aspx

 

BUT BEFORE YOU BUY IT:

Anyone who pre-ordered this game or bought it after the pre-order can request the ROM for free (whith the caviat that in the event of a refund, the price of the ROM would be substracted from the refund).

This means you don't have to pay twice. Only in the event of a necessary pre-order cancelation due to third party circumstances, the price would be deducted from the refund.

 

Those who paid for the game and who are interested on the rom just have to contact me (via atariage PM, facebook messenger, online shop messaging system etc) and I will send it to them in less than 24 hours (because of different time zones, etc).

 

Some people have also requested to be able to get the box, cover, manual, label and overlays in advance.

I am happy to send it to them since those are sitting in boxes since February, so no problem, I can send those to anyone who already paid for the game.

This would only mean that when the carts are available, they would have to pay the shipping costs of the cart.

In the unfortunate event of a pre-order cancellation caused by a third party, we would deduct the cost of this materials (which are 15 euro) and the shipping costs (which unfortunatelly are the same as the whole game if we use registered mail, but we can explore cheaper options).

 

If someone who didn’t already pay for the game wishes to buy the box, cover, manual, label and overlays together with the ROM, I can create an item in our online shop in order to buy that as well.

 

Thank you everyone for your patience, understanding and huge support!

 


 

 

 

Edited by Kai_Magazine
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