Mrarkus Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 I am looking at running some banked carts on my 800 with Incognito (OSS stuff). I don’t have any other carts besides Side 2 so I figured I could get a Side 3 and use it for my U1MB XLs and for the 800. Is this workable, or am I better off with Ultimate, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 I don’t think SIDE3 will work on an 800 without modding the cartridge connector to add a missing signal or two (Phi2 maybe?). I forget the details - the cart will boot but you won’t be able to see the SD card contents, IIRC. And that’s on top of the fact that the cart is too long to close the cartridge door. Disconnecting or jumpering the door-open switch is no big deal but it certainly does look ugly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 I modded my Incognito 800 to replace RAS with Phi2 on the left cartridge slot, but SIDE3 still doesn't work. I know of one user whose SIDE3 did work following this modification, but since SIDE3 apparently wasn't envisaged for use with an 800, YMMV. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrarkus Posted January 3, 2021 Author Share Posted January 3, 2021 Ah, will probably get it for the XL anyway, but didn't even think about the size issue on the 800... Ok, back to plan B, and bugging Candle about Incognito 3 just for good measure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faicuai Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 3 hours ago, Mrarkus said: I am looking at running some banked carts on my 800 with Incognito (OSS stuff). I don’t have any other carts besides Side 2 so I figured I could get a Side 3 and use it for my U1MB XLs and for the 800. Is this workable, or am I better off with Ultimate, etc. If you have Incognito installed, then I am not sure about the inherent benefits of the SIDE-3 value proposition, especially in the 800's non-blocking architecture (e.g. both LEFT and RIGHT cart. ports remain free and operational during normal Incognito and its PBI-HD operation, which is unique to this platform). Having tested myself the older SIDE-2 and confirming I can *concurrently* read and write to BOTH Side-2 and Incognito's HD from a single SDX-session, I think you would be much better off with an Ultimate-SD CART on the 800, which I can operate directly from SDX prompt without ever entering its menu (I developed a custom, SD-loadable rom-menu that enables the cart to intelligently co-exist in any DOS environment and will not dumbly highjack your machine's right after booting). My 0.02c after trying quite a bit on the 800 / Incognito. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrarkus Posted January 3, 2021 Author Share Posted January 3, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, Faicuai said: If you have Incognito installed, then I am not sure about the inherent benefits of the SIDE-3 value proposition, especially in the 800's non-blocking architecture (e.g. both LEFT and RIGHT cart. ports remain free and operational during normal Incognito and its PBI-HD operation, which is unique to this platform). Having tested myself the older SIDE-2 and confirming I can *concurrently* read and write to BOTH Side-2 and Incognito's HD from a single SDX-session, I think you would be much better off with an Ultimate-SD CART on the 800, which I can operate directly from SDX prompt without ever entering its menu (I developed a custom, SD-loadable rom-menu that enables the cart to intelligently co-exist in any DOS environment and will not dumbly highjack your machine's right after booting). My 0.02c after trying quite a bit on the 800 / Incognito. Thanks, I was really just looking not to have to buy SIDE 3 and another cart. Never had a need for any, alas now that an 800 is my primary machine, I need a solution. I guess Ultimate-SD it is! EDIT: Since I’m completely new to this cart, is your custom rom-menu software something available to public, or can you share it? Edited January 3, 2021 by Mrarkus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faicuai Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 2 hours ago, Mrarkus said: Thanks, I was really just looking not to have to buy SIDE 3 and another cart. Never had a need for any, alas now that an 800 is my primary machine, I need a solution. I guess Ultimate-SD it is! EDIT: Since I’m completely new to this cart, is your custom rom-menu software something available to public, or can you share it? Yes,sir, here: If you are planning to use or test at times, the right cart-port with Ultimate/SD on the left-port, you may need low-level firmware update. If you ever need it, let me know... You could also instruct your vendor to "factory-update" your cart with the following internal firmware: Cheers! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dinadan67 Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 That sounds very interesting. Does the Ultimate cart fit mechanically into the 800, or do you have to keep the lid open? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irich2 Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 2 minutes ago, Dinadan67 said: That sounds very interesting. Does the Ultimate cart fit mechanically into the 800, or do you have to keep the lid open? It fits the 800 (and 400 also) just fine. No need to keep the lid open (on either the 800 or 400). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dinadan67 Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 Sigh. My pile of carts is steadily growing ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrarkus Posted January 4, 2021 Author Share Posted January 4, 2021 19 hours ago, Faicuai said: Yes,sir, here: If you are planning to use or test at times, the right cart-port with Ultimate/SD on the left-port, you may need low-level firmware update. If you ever need it, let me know... You could also instruct your vendor to "factory-update" your cart with the following internal firmware: Cheers! Great, thanks!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cabi~#599 Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 On 1/3/2021 at 8:10 AM, Mrarkus said: I am looking at running some banked carts on my 800 with Incognito (OSS stuff). I don’t have any other carts besides Side 2 so I figured I could get a Side 3 and use it for my U1MB XLs and for the 800. Is this workable, or am I better off with Ultimate, etc. BTW, I'm the one who Flashjazzcat says that has an original Atari-800 with the Incognito installed (per FJC's Youtube video) whereby the SIDE3 cart DOES work... for some reason? I bought the SIDE3 not realizing it was for the XL/XE machines only, and after I removed the SIDE3 from it's case and plugged it into the left cart slot, it just worked!?!?!? I modified the case (filed it down) so that I could put the PCBoard back into the case and was able to fit into the left cart slot assembled. FJC and I are NOT sure why it works together but I accept "Luck" over "Skill" any day of the week!!! PS...I have to keep the cart slot cover open with SIDE3 installed. Cabi~599 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beeblebrox Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 (edited) Yup I discovered it worked too. SIDE3 plugged into an open board whilst casing was off for the incognito install. Loader works fine. I happened to try it with my incognito'd 800 (which was converted from NTSC to PAL the other day). https://forums.atariage.com/topic/182564-atari-800-ntsc-to-pal-conversion/?do=findComment&comment=5138395 But as mentioned above in a fully assembled 800 you would need to file the Side3's case down and also disable the cart door switch to keep the door open. Or as you say keep the SIDE3's casing removed entirely. I probably won't use it often as happy using Incognito's SIDE2 loader. However the bonus is that of course Side3 can mount and load up to 1mb car/rom files whereas incognito can't mount them. Edited October 19, 2022 by Beeblebrox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bikerbob Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 I thought (I will try and read it again) but can you not change what is in the cartridge slots of the Incognito and U1mb through flashing - Yes much more arduous to do, but you could load .rom files that way no? James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beeblebrox Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Bikerbob said: I thought (I will try and read it again) but can you not change what is in the cartridge slots of the Incognito and U1mb through flashing - Yes much more arduous to do, but you could load .rom files that way no? James I guess you could if you wanted too - not sure if you could flash a copy of - say - 1MB Atariblast! or SpaceHarrier or even Prince of Persia - to a slot on the Incognito's U1MB in place of - say Missile command. Interesting idea though. I can't recall how many slots are available? Two? Nor do I have any idea on the size limit for a rom in those slots. Probably not much. Also it probably can only accommodate a certain ROM format? This is just speculation as I have no idea. However if I want to mount Cars and Roms on the fly via the loader I'll either just load em on my XL/XE and U1MB machine's via SIDE3 or - as above I could if I wanted to just file the SIDE3 case down to fit in the 800'd left cart slot. I've already filed it to fit in my 1200XL's cart bay. So maybe it just needs a little more to fit in the 800's. TBH I probably won't use the SIDE3 a lot if at all in the 800 anyways. It was just whilst the 800 was disassembled during the Incognito install that I thought I'd try and see if the SIDE3 cart worked and it did. Edited October 19, 2022 by Beeblebrox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 8 minutes ago, Beeblebrox said: not sure if you could flash a copy of - say - 1MB Atariblast! or SpaceHarrier or even Prince of Persia - to a slot on the Incognito's U1MB in place of - say Missile command. No. The BASIC/game slots only support flat 8K cartridge ROMs, unlike SIDE3 which supports a bunch of banked cartridge schemes up to 1MB. Incognito 3 will basically be Incognito+SIDE3 rolled into one, though. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beeblebrox Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 16 minutes ago, flashjazzcat said: Incognito 3 will basically be Incognito+SIDE3 rolled into one, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cabi~#599 Posted October 20, 2022 Share Posted October 20, 2022 19 hours ago, flashjazzcat said: No. The BASIC/game slots only support flat 8K cartridge ROMs, unlike SIDE3 which supports a bunch of banked cartridge schemes up to 1MB. Incognito 3 will basically be Incognito+SIDE3 rolled into one, though. BUT...When will the Incognito-3 be finished??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted October 20, 2022 Share Posted October 20, 2022 11 minutes ago, Cabi~#599 said: When will the Incognito-3 be finished??? Unsure. It's the one design whose prototype I haven't even seen in person yet. Now that industrial action is over and pay disputes apparently settled, hopefully it won't take forever. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cabi~#599 Posted October 20, 2022 Share Posted October 20, 2022 1 hour ago, flashjazzcat said: Unsure. It's the one design whose prototype I haven't even seen in person yet. Now that industrial action is over and pay disputes apparently settled, hopefully it won't take forever. Impatiently waiting! Cabi~599 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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