+Defender_2600 Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 19 minutes ago, RushJet1 said: Either that or you can simplify the backgrounds to only use one green during the explosions, but use the more colorful background when it's not exploding, shouldn't be too noticeable. Maybe we are all saying the same thing, however what I meant is that maybe you could change the tiles on the fly, that is, replace the green lawn tiles with those of the explosions so as not to have overlapping sprites / tiles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Defender_2600 Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 45 minutes ago, RushJet1 said: Either that or you can simplify the backgrounds to only use one green during the explosions, but use the more colorful background when it's not exploding, shouldn't be too noticeable. Just to better understand, currently the background color is black but covered with tiles that use two shades of green. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+TwentySixHundred Posted January 21, 2021 Author Share Posted January 21, 2021 8 hours ago, RevEng said: Since you're working on movement and collision detection, you might consider smooth cornering - if you move the player character toward a corner with an opening nearby, you can nudge the player position over to align with the opening. It's easier to try it out and see for yourself, than to explain it in more detail. Check out how @Atarius Maximus's Adventure Demo deals with walking toward blocks that are partially blocking your path. This sort of scheme is more forgiving, and Tanya might even be able to play it with the prolines. Thanks for the link Mike i will definitely be looking into it. The way i originally went about it was if an input was pressed and an non walkable tile was detected the code would skip any other inputs. That's why i was leaving the player stuck on "sticky walls". Was very early code but this link you provided could really help open my eyes to other ways around it ? 8 hours ago, RushJet1 said: Wouldn't the explosions just be background tiles that animate? I'm pretty sure that's what Bomberman 2 did on the NES. That's actually a really good idea and i hadn't thought of that approach. It would surely save rendering time and the need to overlay explosion sprites. Thanks RushJet it should be just a matter of poking the tiles needed ? 3 hours ago, Defender_2600 said: It was also my thought, in fact I had used four colors for the brown rocks, including the brown background color. However, using the background tiles for explosions in 160A, the color green should be used for the background in order to leave the other three colors free for the explosions. Yeah i noticed the four colours with the brown rocks and actually slightly modified them to have just three. It worked for now to get the map displayed and the tradeoff is hardly noticeable. 1 hour ago, Defender_2600 said: Just to better understand, currently the background color is black but covered with tiles that use two shades of green. I can always set the background colour to green and just use a transparent tile for the grass. This would also help with flipping the tiles to explosion tiles as the transparent part around the explosion tiles would still be green. Just means the tradeoff would be the green boarder remaining around the edges of the playfied ? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Defender_2600 Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 23 minutes ago, TwentySixHundred said: I can always set the background colour to green and just use a transparent tile for the grass Excluding the explosions, the important thing is that the green lawn is of two colors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+TwentySixHundred Posted January 21, 2021 Author Share Posted January 21, 2021 14 minutes ago, Defender_2600 said: Excluding the explosions, the important thing is that the green lawn is of two colors. Yes of course What i was meaning is have a tile that mainly consists of transparent so the green background colour acts as a secondary colour. That way the little sprouts (secondary colour) is actually only one colour on the tile. It would look exactly the same other then having two colours on the tile itself. Would more give the illusion of two colours on the tile and the plus side is that pallet could have two other colours remaining for other sprites. Especially if im stacking pallets in 160B mode for certain sprites. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Defender_2600 Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 In the initial phase of the explosions, to avoid noticing that the little sprouts disappear they can be colored with yellow, it will look like a combustion start ... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+TwentySixHundred Posted January 21, 2021 Author Share Posted January 21, 2021 19 minutes ago, Defender_2600 said: In the initial phase of the explosions, to avoid noticing that the little sprouts disappear they can be colored with yellow, it will look like a combustion start ... That's a great idea, do you think it would be possible for only 2 colours (orange and red) for explosions or would the full pallet of three colours be the better choice. Im wondering because those little sprouts could still be drawn if it shares the same pallet as explosions. So green - orange - red Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Defender_2600 Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 9 minutes ago, TwentySixHundred said: That's a great idea, do you think it would be possible for only 2 colours (orange and red) for explosions or would the full pallet of three colours be the better choice. Im wondering because those little sprouts could still be drawn if it shares the same pallet as explosions. So green - orange - red To make a difference, we really need the color white too ... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+TwentySixHundred Posted January 21, 2021 Author Share Posted January 21, 2021 9 minutes ago, Defender_2600 said: To make a difference, we really need the color white too ... No worries it would probably be better to just colour then sprouts orange anyway like you were saying. It will give that animation effect at no cost and im fairly sure the SNES version does something similar to that anyway. As it stands the background is using four pallets however im thinking of dropping one that is used for the darker top and bottom boarder walls. If i use the same pallet as the side walls it would be more fitting to go with the TG16 version anyway. Saves a pallet and would just need to design some corner walls to fit the build Thanks for all this help with graphics Defender_2000 it really makes the game look 1000x nicer ? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+TwentySixHundred Posted January 21, 2021 Author Share Posted January 21, 2021 So i tested with using the background colour set to green so the tiles could be transparent with small lighter green sprouts. It's actually not looking too bad having a green outerborder. I think i could live with that and it eliminates the issue of losing green when flipping tiles for explosions. Nice easy fix and makes room for an additional colour on that pallet ? 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Defender_2600 Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 32 minutes ago, TwentySixHundred said: As it stands the background is using four pallets however im thinking of dropping one that is used for the darker top and bottom boarder walls. If i use the same pallet as the side walls it would be more fitting to go with the TG16 version anyway. Saves a pallet and would just need to design some corner walls to fit the build Thanks for all this help with graphics Defender_2000 it really makes the game look 1000x nicer ? Wait, don't do this yet I never considered the side wall graphics definitive, at one point I just stopped because it was the middle of the night and I didn't know if this graphic would stand a chance. I'll show you some tiles added this weekend, the idea is to draw half of the upper corners and overlap the tile using the transparency, the effect will be the same as TG16. I would also like to draw those four side "windows"... I am happy to help and thank you for the opportunity. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Defender_2600 Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 34 minutes ago, TwentySixHundred said: It's actually not looking too bad having a green outerborder. I think i could live with that It is quite normal to find a green lawn under the walls 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Defender_2600 Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 Of course, no problem if along the way it will be necessary to sacrifice that palette... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Defender_2600 Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+TwentySixHundred Posted January 21, 2021 Author Share Posted January 21, 2021 4 hours ago, Defender_2600 said: Of course, no problem if along the way it will be necessary to sacrifice that palette... Will have to see when getting to that hurdle, im always about saving resources when i can. Especially if adding a two player battle mode, although even then it maybe just as simple as using the same pallets for both players and swapping a few colours around. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mksmith Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 In relation to 160A/B definitely the background is best to stay as 160A as that is covering the full screen. The bomberman would be fine at 160B - being the main character using the full range of colors would really pop (Millie & Molly does this). The enemies if you can get away with 160A would be ideal but you could certainly try 160B with those. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Defender_2600 Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 I would really like this version to give the feeling of being graphically similar to the 16-bit versions from which it derives (rather than similar to the other 8-bit versions) and to make this happen we need a good number of colors. Given this objective, I'm seeing that, with 160A mode, we don't have enough colors to have the enemies painted like in the TG 16 version, so we really need the 160B mode, except for explosions and bombs for which it is preferable to use the 160A mode. Enemies have some shades of one dominant color (red, yellow, purple, light blue, blue, gray) or even two dominant colors and they all share black and white colors. Using the 160A for the enemies not only do we not have enough palettes but we also waste the colors of the 160B palette due to some color duplication, achieving at most 6 colors instead of 12 colors. So for sprites you should opt for 16OB, using only 160A for explosions and bombs. In the extreme case we still have a great lifeline, giving up the background tiles with two colors and opting for the background color only. The result would still be better than having sprites with few colors and elementary looking. Also in some levels, four palettes are required for the background tiles. Of course, this is just my humble opinion and everything can be tested along the way. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Defender_2600 Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 I am also available to help you with sprites, if you are not in a hurry as I am busy with other projects as well. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Defender_2600 Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 https://www.mobygames.com/game/turbo-grafx/bomberman/screenshots Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+TwentySixHundred Posted January 22, 2021 Author Share Posted January 22, 2021 3 hours ago, Defender_2600 said: I would really like this version to give the feeling of being graphically similar to the 16-bit versions from which it derives (rather than similar to the other 8-bit versions) and to make this happen we need a good number of colors. Given this objective, I'm seeing that, with 160A mode, we don't have enough colors to have the enemies painted like in the TG 16 version, so we really need the 160B mode, except for explosions and bombs for which it is preferable to use the 160A mode. Enemies have some shades of one dominant color (red, yellow, purple, light blue, blue, gray) or even two dominant colors and they all share black and white colors. Using the 160A for the enemies not only do we not have enough palettes but we also waste the colors of the 160B palette due to some color duplication, achieving at most 6 colors instead of 12 colors. So for sprites you should opt for 16OB, using only 160A for explosions and bombs. In the extreme case we still have a great lifeline, giving up the background tiles with two colors and opting for the background color only. The result would still be better than having sprites with few colors and elementary looking. Also in some levels, four palettes are required for the background tiles. Of course, this is just my humble opinion and everything can be tested along the way. I see what you're saying, i will have to look into having both the player and enemy sprites using 160B. Guess it's just a matter of carefully stacking the pallets and i agree it would look really good if it can be done. The bomb pallet shouldn't be an issue if there is atleast black and white within the same pallet. Not sure about explosions because as im looking at it a free pallet from the background would be needed. Although i may not be looking at it carefully enough. Item pickups would also need to share one the other pallets. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+TwentySixHundred Posted January 22, 2021 Author Share Posted January 22, 2021 So im getting half way there with 160B player sprite. There is some transparency and a few colours aren't right on the bottom half. However most of the sprite is correct. Guess it's just a bit of experimenting and fiddling around to get familiar. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RushJet1 Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 I made what I think is a reasonable 1-channel approximation of the bomb sound effect from the TG16 (shortened to sound more like the Super Bomberman 2 version because the echo is kind of unnecessary, especially with two channels). bse2x.bin 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+TwentySixHundred Posted January 22, 2021 Author Share Posted January 22, 2021 1 hour ago, RushJet1 said: I made what I think is a reasonable 1-channel approximation of the bomb sound effect from the TG16 (shortened to sound more like the Super Bomberman 2 version because the echo is kind of unnecessary, especially with two channels). bse2x.bin 4 kB · 1 download Sounds great! Can't express how grateful for the help from yourself and Defender_2600. The graphics, music and sounds are coming along really nicely. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+TwentySixHundred Posted January 22, 2021 Author Share Posted January 22, 2021 For those waiting on a new build to play im sorry about the delay. These new updates have required a full re-write of the game, so there is no real point of maintaining the older source. There is 5 levels on the previous build and it's somewhat playable so it's something for now. There is alot of other behind the scenes work happening other then just graphics. I'm actually working on poking the tiles for explosions and trying to work out the best way to go about it. I feel this will be probably the meat and bones to the build as many the other parts are easier to implement. Also thinking of making a start on player movement and collision detection shortly, although id like to iron out the player graphics and pallets firstly. The wait should be well worth it in the end ? Things are happening, there is just no real point posting a build until it's atleast better then the previous builds. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+TwentySixHundred Posted January 22, 2021 Author Share Posted January 22, 2021 So i had tried just including the sprite as tallsprite and it's chopped his feet off along with the shadow. I just can't seem to get rid of the transparency with the correct colour either. 160B mode is turning out to be a little tricky with pallets using two individual sprites or tallsprite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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