Retron 77... my opinion...

[keithbk]

I received an Retron 77 for Christmas, and after some fiddling with it, I thought I would give my opinion/review for those contemplating purchasing the unit.

 

There are some benefits to the unit, including the HDMI hookup for modern TV's and an extra long Retron Joystick wire, for example.

 

Unfortunately, the Retron 77 has too many flaws to recommend it at the current price point. First, it doesn't work with all ATARI cartridges because it doesn't have real (or equivalent) Atari guts. Plugging in your game cartridge and finding out that many simply won't work kills the value of this unit. You cannot trust it to accurately identify working/non-working cartridges because the unit is so flawed in this department.

 

"But wait!" some of you will say, "You can update the firmware with the latest Stella build and load ALL your roms onto the system!"

 

Yes, that is nice, but then the system at this point is little more than a full-on emulator. The "cartridge plug," because it doesn't work on half the cartridges I loaded, is pointless. So now we must examine whether it is better than a Raspberry Pi with the peripherals doing the exact same thing. 

 

So, now that I have updated the firmware for the unit, I am searching through ROMS to find games I want to play...

 

Which leads to the next problem. For a system that is not a TRUE Atari, it lacks the most basic necessity... a way to change roms from the controller.

 

What is the point of an extra long controller if there is no way to return to the main menu? I understand creating the unit to use authentic Atari hardware, but a remote would be helpful. For example, you have a save feature, but to use it, you have to get up to hit save on the actual physical unit. This means to play and use save, you really need to sit right up next to your big screen TV... 

 

Because the buttons/switches etc are on both sides of the unit (front and back), and because they are not easy to identify, I find the entire control system on the unit clumsy and unintuitive. For a system that operated on 6 switches, you would think they could get them all on one side. But sticking switches on the back means you have to feel around the back of the unit (or flip it) to trigger them. And there are a handful of games that use those switches (Space Shuttle, for example). 

 

The switches really bother me. 

 

First, they don't resemble the Atari 2600 in any way, and as such are not arranged in any way similar to an Atari. Other than having difficulty switches above the controller ports and an easily identifiable power switch, all the others feel like sloppy afterthoughts.

 

Second, since they are nothing like the Atari switches, you would think they would try to make them user friendly or more modern. You would be wrong. Sure, maybe LED lights would have increased the cost of this unit, but they have an LED light on the unit (for power on) that is NOT a power button. If that round power light was a button, that would make sense. Then maybe a couple of the buttons on the back could be on the front... but no. How about lettering ON the button itself? Instead of above the two top and below the two bottom? No. So hitting save means you have to KNOW where the right button is before you hit save, otherwise your eyes are off the screen, which could be the difference of life and death.

 

In the end, the Retron 77 is a series of missed opportunities. It is not a true Atari, nor does it sufficiently modernize the Atari. You don't simply turn it on, sit down, and play for a while. No, you will be getting up over and over to fiddle with buttons on the front and back. Depending on your setup, the Retron 77 unit will be somewhere near your TV/Entertainment Center, but you will need easy access to both sides of the unit, making it pointless for modern users.

 

There you go, my two cents!

[+eebuckeye]

Very good information.  I am hoping a Retron 77 version 2 appears at some point like their other products but there may not be enough demand.

[CapitanClassic]

I was under the impression that even with physical cartridges, the Retro77 just performs a cartridge dump, and then you are playing the rom anyway.

 

As you point out, it is just another Linux/android box that has an emulator in it and isn’t a hardware equivalent VCS. With that being the case, I will stick to my Atari Flashback X or my PC with Stella installed. 

 

If I want to play a real Atari, have 2 Atari Flashback 2 systems and eventually plan on modding one and installing a cartridge port and Harmony/PlusCart, or my 4-switch.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

If you have a controller with any space buttons (or a second controller), you can map e.g. the Command menu to it. Then you can play from the couch.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

1 hour ago, CapitanClassic said:

I was under the impression that even with physical cartridges, the Retro77 just performs a cartridge dump, and then you are playing the rom anyway.

This is correct.

[Mockduck]

The Retron 77 is ok as long as you recognize that you are getting what you pay for, and you aren't paying much. 

[keithbk]

I think you are paying too much for far too little, considering the brains of it is Stella, which is offered by the community for FREE.

 

In fact, to get it relatively functional for most ROMs, you MUST do an update on it.

Edited January 12, 2021 by keithbk

[+splendidnut]

You're paying for the hardware... Last I checked, hardware isn't free

[CapitanClassic]

44 minutes ago, splendidnut said:

You're paying for the hardware... Last I checked, hardware isn't free

Software Engineering time is free though, at least that is what my former manager thought. ?

[Dionoid]

Good review. I agree with most of your feedback, although actually over 90% of the classic cartridges are supported (see this sheet).

To me, the cartridge slot on the Retron77 is just a nice little gimmick; I use my Retron77 mainly as 'Stella Box'.

On 1/11/2021 at 4:13 AM, keithbk said:

You don't simply turn it on, sit down, and play for a while

That is indeed the main design flaw. What they should have done:

• Either: included a long, 20-feet HDMI cable (+ keep the joystick cables short), so you mimic the original way of playing: which is to have the console within reach - so you can push buttons and switch games easily - and use a long cable to allow having your TV at a distance.
• Or: keep the long joystick cables, but add a special 'menu' button to the joystick, which would pop up the Stella menu.
  (or even better: a wireless controller!)

And the "Trooper" has become my favorite joystick, which I mainly use on my real Atari 2600. IMO they are solidly built, ergonomic, and don't make noise (e.g. clicking sounds).

 

 

Edited January 12, 2021 by Dionoid

[keithbk]

1 hour ago, splendidnut said:

You're paying for the hardware... Last I checked, hardware isn't free

No, the hardware isn't free, but the hardware is poorly designed ergonomically.

 

Honestly, I think they would have had a far better result if they had surveyed potential customers first and asked what they thought. The button locations are simply horrible.

Edited January 12, 2021 by keithbk

[hizzy]

On 1/11/2021 at 2:52 AM, Thomas Jentzsch said:

If you have a controller with any space buttons (or a second controller), you can map e.g. the Command menu to it. Then you can play from the couch.

Are these all of the stella commands? Thanks!

[+splendidnut]

1 hour ago, keithbk said:

No, the hardware isn't free, but the hardware is poorly designed ergonomically.

 

Honestly, I think they would have had a far better result if they had surveyed potential customers first and asked what they thought. The button locations are simply horrible.

I agree with you.  Yeah, they could have done something better with the buttons.  But:

 

  *  A remote control would have added to the cost.  Probably not much... but they were probably trying to hit a specific price point without sacrificing a "cool" feature like the ability to use real carts.

 

  *  Adding buttons on the controller would have required a different connector/interface, breaking compatibility with original hardware/controllers.

 

At the end of the day, you're paying for a piece of hardware that's meant to let you enjoy the common games from the 2600 era on your modern TV... albeit with some odd inconveniences caused by the disconnect between old ways and new ways of gaming.

 

Personally, I prefer the original hardware... but I also have CRTs lying around and an older LCD TV which works well with the original system.

 

Using Stella on a Mac/PC also works well and is probably the more convenient way to play for some/most people.

 

Would I ever buy a Retron 77?  Probably not... mainly because I'm a developer and spend most my time using Stella on a PC or Mac, to play and develop.

[keithbk]

The BEST option would be something akin to the Atari Flashback 2 with Cartridge Port (a mod which can be done):

 

http://www.atarimuseum.com/fb2hacks/page1.htm

 

Then you really do have an authentic Atari for modern TVs, presuming you make it an HDMI output. And the price would have been comparable.

Edited January 12, 2021 by keithbk

[ComputerSpaceFan]

I recommend the FlashBack X. You can easily have it add ROMs and it works with classic paddles, not great but they work decently.

 

[keithbk]

I enjoy the flashback series for what they are, but the Flashback 2 can actually be modified to take actual Atari cartridges.

[+fdr4prez]

2 hours ago, keithbk said:

I enjoy the flashback series for what they are, but the Flashback 2 can actually be modified to take actual Atari cartridges.

Yes, but even with that modification, it is not 100% compatible with all carts:

Definitive FB2 Compatibility List - AtGames Flashback and Portable Consoles - AtariAge Forums

[Thomas Jentzsch]

15 hours ago, hizzy said:

Are these all of the stella commands? Thanks!

No, there are many, many more (>200, see Options/Input/Emul. Events). But these are the ones we (better: I) found most relevant for direct access. More can be found in the various Settings dialogs.