Atari 800 Expansion Slots Question

[YSG2020]

Just picked up an Atari 800. I own some XLs but this is my first 800. Always wanted one. Finally found one in great shape. Anyways, I would like to know what the expansion slots on this 800 should have in them stock?  There are 4 slots in the top of the 800 and right now 3 slots look to have Some kind of pc-board RAM in them, and the 4th slot looks like it has a pc board with larger ROM chips on it. Would these be stock from Atari the way it would have shipped new, or are these likely aftermarket expansion boards of some kind?  I always assumed an 800 came new with either 4 empty slots, or perhaps 2 slots filled and 2 empty slots?  I know Atari RAM looks like cartridges and what’s in this machine is definitely not that that.  Please educate me. I haven’t powered on the machine yet as I’m looking for my 1050 pwr supply because it did not come with one. Thank you kindly. 

[+Nezgar]

• 10KB ROM card at the front
• Up to three slots with RAM cards, either 8KB or 16KB each in various combinations for 8KB minimum, 48KB max.

Maybe share a picture so we can tell you for sure if they are original or 3rd party?

 

There were also 3rd party RAM modules, some that offered up to 48 or 52K RAM, or more via bank switching.

[YSG2020]

Thank-you Nezgar. I thought the 800 came with 48k RAM stock?  I’ll have to power this baby up (hopefully it powers up!) and see how much RAM she’s actually got. 

[+DrVenkman]

17 minutes ago, YSG2020 said:

I thought the 800 came with 48k RAM stock?  

Only in the last year or two of their market lifetime; RAM was very expensive when the 400 and 800 were designed, and the first 800's sold had only 16K, with two slots empty for expansion. One of my own 800's has a single Atari 16K board, and an aftermarket 32K board in the second slot.

 

Insert a BASIC cartridge and boot it up. Type "? FRE(0)" to print the amount of free memory. If it's a 48K machines, it should return 37902.

[YSG2020]

This thing is built like a tank. I can’t believe all the heavy duty cast RF shielding in it.  What a beast and beautiful piece of vintage computer hardware. I think the keyboard feels even better than the 1200’s. It’s astonishing to me that in today’s money this thing Initially sold for over $3000 with 16k and families paid that much for them in ‘79. Then again, StarRaiders was the killer app that had the market beat. I can still remember walking through Sears as a kid and seeing this thing hooked up to a Big Hitachi TV and drooling at it.  I know my 800xl and 130xe are far more versatile, but now I’m forced to choose for desk space between the 800 and 1200xl as they are so much better constructed and higher quality.  They are both just gorgeous and I can’t decide! 

Edited January 12, 2021 by YSG2020

[Faicuai]

1 hour ago, YSG2020 said:

This thing is built like a tank. I can’t believe all the heavy duty cast RF shielding in it.  What a beast and beautiful piece of vintage computer hardware. I think the keyboard feels even better than the 1200’s. It’s astonishing to me that in today’s money this thing Initially sold for over $3000 with 16k and families paid that much for them in ‘79. Then again, StarRaiders was the killer app that had the market beat. I can still remember walking through Sears as a kid and seeing this thing hooked up to a Big Hitachi TV and drooling at it.  I know my 800xl and 130xe are far more versatile, but now I’m forced to choose for desk space between the 800 and 1200xl as they are so much better constructed and higher quality.  They are both just gorgeous and I can’t decide! 

Just happen to be on the exact same camp as you... Always wanted the 800 but could never get one, back then... started with the 400 and moved to the 800XL (+Indus).

 

As you continue to explore the 800, and pay close attention to its design and architecture (and what can be done with it), you will soon realize that it is not only unique on the entire line-up, but it also gives the impression that even my own 800 XLs, appear to be watered-down versions of its original design (?).

 

Today, you can bring the 800 to 52 KBytes of base-ram, add a high-speed Math-pack, and add 512KB of extended memory, with absolutely NO internal work and essentially tool-less. No case or shields removal, no de-soldering, no re-socketing, no nothing. Just remove the top-lid, and that's it. And the best part? You can keep it all of its parts together, as it came from factory (no de-gutting needed). And that makes possible running a feature-rich session of SDX, too!

 

Slot-3 on the back has access to $D5XX, $D6XX I/O area, with -5/+5/+12 volts supplies (!) and it also designed to handle expansions like 80-Col cards (or even graphics-ones), and all of this without the immediate need or use of PBI, for instance.

 

And the list goes on and on.... Enjoy !

[Keatah]

When I had an 800 it had beautiful cartridges that plugged into those slots. 10K OS ROM & and 3x 16K RAM. Later on they did cost-cutting and removed the cartridge shells and took away the quick-release clips.

Edited January 12, 2021 by Keatah

[StickJock]

31 minutes ago, Keatah said:

Later on they did cost-cutting and removed the cartridge shells and took away the quick-release clips.

I thought that they dropped the shells due to overheating issues, and once the 800s came with 48K (all slots filled), there was no reason for the quick-release clips.

[YSG2020]

I agree. Those RAM/ROM carts are pretty.  Did they really overheat, or can you actually still use them? If anybody here has a 16 or 8k cart they’d like to sell, I’d be interested.  Just for kicks to compare to my 512gb micro sd card. Lol. 

Edited January 12, 2021 by YSG2020

[The V-Man]

2 hours ago, Faicuai said:

Just happen to be on the exact same camp as you... Always wanted the 800 but could never get one, back then... started with the 400 and moved to the 800XL (+Indus).

 

As you continue to explore the 800, and pay close attention to its design and architecture (and what can be done with it), you will soon realize that it is not only unique on the entire line-up, but it also gives the impression that even my own 800 XLs, appear to be watered-down versions of its original design (?).

 

Today, you can bring the 800 to 52 KBytes of base-ram, add a high-speed Math-pack, and add 512KB of extended memory, with absolutely NO internal work and essentially tool-less. No case or shields removal, no de-soldering, no re-socketing, no nothing. Just remove the top-lid, and that's it. And the best part? You can keep it all of its parts together, as it came from factory (no de-gutting needed). And that makes possible running a feature-rich session of SDX, too!

 

Slot-3 on the back has access to $D5XX, $D6XX I/O area, with -5/+5/+12 volts supplies (!) and it also designed to handle expansions like 80-Col cards (or even graphics-ones), and all of this without the immediate need or use of PBI, for instance.

 

And the list goes on and on.... Enjoy !

Funny, I progressed the same way. Started with a 400 16k and a cassette tape.  Then picked up the 800xl a couple of years later.   Always wanted an 800 instead of a 400 but I knew my parents could not afford it. 

[Faicuai]

1 hour ago, YSG2020 said:

I agree. Those RAM/ROM carts are pretty.  Did they really overheat, or can you actually still use them? If anybody here has a 16 or 8k cart they’d like to sell, I’d be interested.  Just for kicks to compare to my 512gb micro sd card. Lol. 

They tended to build more heat than what was really necessary (the back metal plate provided some degree of dissipation) but, at the end, removing them from their cases, did enhance thermal performance and overall reliability. 

 

As for the flip-latches to retain the top-lid in place, it made no sense removing them from an user-accessible compartment. They were simple and convenient, and made the whole access completely tool-lees, they way it should be.

[Keatah]

When I had my 800 I even used it on carpeting without any overheating issues. And like I say it had the RAM cartridges. Mine was early enough to have been a first or second run machine. And it is very typical that first runs of products are often built of higher quality materials, more of those materials, and often containing extra doodads like the clips, or a thicker housing. Or in the case of the Heavy Sixer, a spot on the motherboard for a rom chip, a heavier case with speaker mounting provisions, heavier RF shield, better color, full range of motion joysticks, and separate color for the injection molding on the AC power adapter.

 

As an engineer I agree that removing them from their shells would reduce thermal issues. Sure. Was that the reason? Maybe? Probably. I recall reading that it was cost of materials.

 

RAM was very expensive in the late 70's when the 400/800 were designed. So expensive that the 1976-designed VCS had none other than what was in the RIOT. Early home computers like the Apple II and Atari 800 had a lot of granularity in memory quantity. Upgradable in 4K or 8K increments at first. Apple II had the 4K increments.

[TGB1718]

3 hours ago, Keatah said:

When I had my 800 I even used it on carpeting without any overheating issues. And like I say it had the RAM cartridges.

Same here and never had any overheating issues, still have them (although not in use now, Incognito  ), but they were still

working fine up to the point of the upgrade.

 

[YSG2020]

I’m pleased to announce that after firing it up and finding only 9 working keys, I disassembled it and did the keyboard fix as per your wonderful guidance videos.  It has a Rev C board and tests with 48k RAM.  Boy those Mitsumi mylars are finicky to get off, clean, and paint! I’m an expert now at fixing these keyboards and am 2 for 2 success with this one and the 1200xl previously.  I now have a gorgeous fully working 800! Thanks again gang!
 

I can confirm that after working on this 800, and the 1200xl, that the quality of the build and components used in these two models far exceeds the poorer quality build and components on the other later XLs and XEs which I’ve also worked on. If anybody has any doubt and wants a solid workhorse of an Atari 8-bit computer, go find an 800 or a 1200xl.  You won’t regret it and you’ll likely spend far less time inside it replacing blown ICs, that is of course unless you need a PBI expansion port for some obscure peripheral. 

Edited January 13, 2021 by YSG2020