Eric Rousseau Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 I am trying to use this disk image to use the 80 columns utility on it without success... I know it's crappy 4 pixel wide but this is the actual goal for now to me. Can anyone give me more info on build a bootable dos 2.0s disk or spartados 3.2g disk so I can type a txt file on screen ? Thanks. PS: If you have seen one for 64 columns that would be fine too. I read about the drivers on smart terminal 6.1 disk (m64.mpp & m80.mpp) To switch smart term in 64 columns mode, I have to boot in 800xl os 2 with translator (no basic) then load smart term... A 64 or 80 columns full screen editor is what I am looking for because I want to program one and want to see the text first... 80 Columns.atr Translator_Side_A_OS_B.ATR Smart Terminal 6.1.atr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin1968 Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 Stay tuned, I am about to release an 80 column cart! The ACE80/XL 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Rousseau Posted January 14, 2021 Author Share Posted January 14, 2021 Cool but I use Altirra Emulator, not a real 800XL... I guess your cartridge have a video chip inside with a video out connector... Anyway, let me know, I'm curious to know more ! Thanks ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nezgar Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 A quick test of "80 Columns.atr" looks like a ken siders boot disk - with some fanagling I got it to boot in Altirra with BASIC enabled to see an 80 columns "READY" prompt - but no DOS. Typing ?FRE(0) gets be about 32K free as expected - but after entering 1 line of code, it hangs... Maybe the EXE can be extracted from the boot disk and placed on a DOS bootable disk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClausB Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 Try this: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 idk, run translator then the 80 col stuff, then the terminal... might get it done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin1968 Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 13 hours ago, Eric Rousseau said: Cool but I use Altirra Emulator, not a real 800XL... Oh, never mind then, you can't use the cart with an emulator, just the real hardware. No there is no video chip or connection however, it's just a cartridge you plug into the computer that gives you 80 columns. Gavin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
netcoord99 Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 (edited) FYI !! . The E-80 is a pirated copy of the ACE80 cartridge software and anyone attempting to use, promote, or sell it is in violation of copyright laws. Amiable Computer Enhancements owns the copyrights and I am requesting that and all forums (starting with this one) remove these types of promotions from their pages or they run the risk of prosecution by not just Amiable but all companies still in business. VCC and I are trying to bring the ACE80 cartridges back to the Atari community now so please don't hinder us doing that. Thanks! Edited January 14, 2021 by netcoord99 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Larry Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 I don't use an emulator, but can you use the Omniview (800 OS) rom? There was also an 80-column WP called OmniWriter by the same author. Also, AA member "Beetle" posted this Turbo Basic XL with 80-columns. There have been sooo many software 80-column editors written, going all the way back to about 1982 in Compute!, but ACE80-XL is probably the best of the lot because of it's speed. Also, there was a pretty good one from JD Casten -- "Easy 80." I'm sure you will find at least one that will work for you! Edit: BTW, I was able to get the TBXL-80 working by loading TBXL from MyDos and then BLOADing the EDIT80TB.COM file from TBXL. Seems to work fine, and looks very good on my ATI All-In-Wonder capture card system. https://www.atarimagazines.com/v6n3/easy80.html TBXL-80 from Beetle.atr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faicuai Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 (edited) 16 minutes ago, netcoord99 said: FYI !! . The E-80 is a pirated copy of the ACE80 cartridge software and anyone attempting to use, promote, or sell it is in violation of copyright laws. Amiable Computer Enhancements owns the copyrights and I am requesting that and all forums (starting with this one) remove these types of promotions from their pages or they run the risk of prosecution by not just Amiable but all companies still in business. VCC and I are trying to bring the ACE80 cartridges back to the Atari community now so please don't hinder us doing that. Thanks! Speaking of which.... Absolutely great to see a real / serious attempt to bring back ACE80 to life, since it is really a master-piece (RIGH-slot, specifically). Now that you guys are it, I would urge you to seriously consider not a simple and exact copy / re-run of the past product. There is plenty of cart-technology available today, and you guys have the chance, once again, to build something really unique, in tune with the 800 heritage, as well as the XL/XE installed base. Make the cart auto-sensing / auto-mapping (you can plug it on LEFT or RIGHT ports), have two SW loads on it, so it maps the right one for the detected address space ($8000-$9FFF or $A000-$BFFF), make it user flashable (at least, externally), and also sensing $D5XX I/O area 7x24, so it can be turned on and off at will. Make it also compatible with SDX, if possible, and leave some rom-space for user-uploaded utilities, so we can launch other things on our own, and leave the cart always plugged on the RIGHT port, which is the benefit of the 800 architecture. Just some ideas of doing something REALLY cool, and not just another byte-for-byte re-run of the original ACE80/XL. My 0.02c Edited January 14, 2021 by Faicuai 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+David_P Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 SpartaDis X includes a 64 column screen driver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 46 minutes ago, David_P said: SpartaDis X includes a 64 column screen driver. As well as an 80 column driver. Any software that doesn't work with these drivers will not work with a new device that doesn't use standard E or S drivers for their output. This puts us right back to my initial argument. We have hardware in many forms that does 80 columns with little to no software support for it. Any new device that doesn't work with standard E: device will further fragment the market meaning less software being made. Any any new device that does work with E: device is competing with or doing the same as we already have in many forms (which is mostly unused). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmitry Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 In my view hardware devices aren't entirely about how many columns they support, but also what monitors they allow to attach. So you find XEP80 doesn't do anything about improving regular antic video and only allows a very few old composite monitors to connect in 80 column mode - and you cannot even buy it...so I wouldn't be the first to think it isn't all that useful. VBXE is still around, but was designed, to allow someone to connect an Atari ST SC1224, or similar 15khz CRT monitor, and that is limiting. I just got my Sophia equipped 130XE today, unfortunately the Atari has issues, - I can't seem to catch a break. Although that is going to result in me eventually trying to fix it, and therefore destroying it.....that's not important for this thought. To me when this machine does work, it looks great, I think Sophia is really sharp. VBXE looked better because it didn't have the square pixels, but it rock solid - I'm very impressed. But no matter how 'rarely used' 80 column may be, I used it every day. For Last Word, for VBXE term, for SpartaDos, and in development of my game. For those that do use 80 columns, for the software that does already exist, VBXE to 15khz RGB to some kind of scan doubler is the best solution right now, that is regularly available, but I personally think we will eventually want something targetted at modern monitors. Should it support E device. I don't know. My program doesn't. I literally don't know how to support E device, and yet I did successfully follow instructions for VBXE and support it already. But, if someone has a handy dandy tutorial on E device, I would like to look at it. Preferably something for kickc, but even a simple cc65 tutorial would work. I just cannot imagine how it would work as an overlay though. And if it doesn't why wouldn't you write directly to the screen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drpeter Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 (edited) In very simple terms, the E: device handler is a way of abstracting the input/output code for the Atari screen editor from the keyboard/graphics hardware used for input and display. Within the stock hardware, it is for example possible to write a replacement E: device handler that uses a Graphics 8 (ANTIC Mode 15) screen display rather than a Graphics 0 (ANTIC Mode 2) display but is otherwise both in use and to a program using it for screen output indistinguishable from the usual Graphics 0 situation. Apart from having less RAM available, of course. This works by always writing to the screen through function calls to the handler rather than to the screen memory or hardware registers. As long as those functions behave in exactly the same way, it is transparent to the user and the program what the handler and the hardware are doing. For example, the function to write a character at the present 40x24 cursor position will in the standard E: handler write the appropriate character byte to Graphics 0 screen memory or in the replacement E: handler put the character byte into an off-screen character memory buffer and copy the relevant bitmap from the character set ROM to Graphics 8 screen memory. Writing a replacement E: handler is essentially a case of rewriting the code for each of the existing E: functions so that they continue to do what the calling program expects- and along the way tailoring them for what you are trying to achieve, whether that be using different hardware for the display, like VBXE, or doing something different with the existing hardware, such as having 64 or 80 text columns on-screen in Graphics 8. You can do this because the available E: handler functions don't make assumptions about how many rows or columns a display has, operating in terms of 'write these characters to the screen from the current cursor position' or 'get a keystroke from the keyboard' or 'read in a record of characters from the logical line under the current cursor position'. Line-wrapping and screen-scrolling is done automatically by the handler- the calling program is oblivious to it- the structure of the screen in terms of logical lines of characters is also maintained by the handler. De Re Atari is a good place to start in understanding the concept and workings of Atari device handlers, but I can't point you at anything focused on 'C' programming, I'm afraid. That said, writing code to use Atari device handlers is very straightforward in any language, and the explanations based on BASIC and Assembly are very easily transferable to C. Going through a device handler means that your software will (possibly) still work if someone swaps out the hardware you originally targeted and swaps in new hardware with a new device handler, or just a new device handler that does something different (such as 80 columns using Graphics 8). That's the advantage, but you sacrifice speed and flexibility. It's a bit like choosing to use approved OS entry points instead of jumping direct into OS routines that are mutable and may cause your code to fail with updated or non-standard OS's. Edited January 15, 2021 by drpeter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 43 minutes ago, Dmitry said: And if it doesn't why wouldn't you write directly to the screen. That's just it. Anything that writes directly to the screen, is broken software when it comes to alternate devices. The OS provides the way to write to the screen, device independent. The only way you can have a driver acting as an overlay, is to hook in to the handler table, and have your code write to the E: (updated) handler. If software is written "properly", it will write to any other device we put on the machine without additional coding (minus the initial "driver". But, since most stuff does not do this - hence my comment about "whatever works in Sparta DOS X already, using the 64 and 80 column drivers" will work with any existing 80 column device, that which doesn't shows lack of support and any new device complicates this by also being non compatible. This doesn't really apply to games. this is text based software which why we are talking 80 column text. I guess character graphics driven stuff would work the same way - just not bitmap. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfollowell Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 36 minutes ago, Stephen said: This doesn't really apply to games. this is text based software which why we are talking 80 column text. I guess character graphics driven stuff would work the same way - just not bitmap. Of course, it would be nice to see old Infocom text adventures and the like in 64 or 80 column on the Atari 8-bits, but since these auto-boot and there is no chance to load a driver or anything beforehand, this isn't likely to happen here either. The software just wasn't written with displays wider than 40 columns in mind, at least for the Atari 8-bits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drpeter Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 (edited) 27 minutes ago, bfollowell said: these auto-boot and there is no chance to load a driver or anything beforehand Well, it wouldn't be too hard to hack the boot process and install a driver, but Infocom games were compiled for a virtual machine (the 'Z' machine) which was instantiated on each platform the games were released for. The 'Z' machine has a limited number of simple op-codes for directing screen output and keyboard input, but whether these were routed through the E: handler or addressed the screen and keyboard directly in the Atari instantiation I'm not sure. Memory constraints were also very tight on many of the games, so finding room for a new E: handler might also be an issue, not to mention finding space for Graphics 8 screen memory. The games themselves are agnostic about the characteristics of the hardware they are run on, this being entirely abstracted via the 'Z' machine. Edited January 15, 2021 by drpeter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClausB Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 8 hours ago, netcoord99 said: FYI !! . The E-80 is a pirated copy of the ACE80 cartridge software and anyone attempting to use, promote, or sell it is in violation of copyright laws. Amiable Computer Enhancements owns the copyrights and I am requesting that and all forums (starting with this one) remove these types of promotions from their pages or they run the risk of prosecution by not just Amiable but all companies still in business. VCC and I are trying to bring the ACE80 cartridges back to the Atari community now so please don't hinder us doing that. Thanks! Whoa, hold on there! I wrote E80 before ACE80 so it is not pirated in any way. I did not sell you E80 and I will do with it as I please. Got it? Do not ruin my reputation here, calling me a pirate of my own software! You are providing a product for those who want a physical cart and that's great. For others who want the early disk version, I give E80 freely. 17 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidD Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 As a side note, I remember getting my hands on an Atari 80 column ANSI package that let me play BBS games ages ago... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 (edited) 10 hours ago, ClausB said: Whoa, hold on there! I wrote E80 before ACE80 so it is not pirated in any way. I did not sell you E80 and I will do with it as I please. Got it? Do not ruin my reputation here, calling me a pirate of my own software! You are providing a product for those who want a physical cart and that's great. For others who want the early disk version, I give E80 freely. Apparently @netcoord99 may need to make sure he's not pirating your software in cart form. This kind of attitude is ridiculous for this old stuff in this day and age anyway. It's not like anyone is taking food from their children's mouths. No one makes enough off this stuff to make a living anymore and they will be lucky to sell a couple dozen anyway. Note to self: don't support A-holes...especially those who don't even know what they own the rights to themselves. Edited January 15, 2021 by Gunstar 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
netcoord99 Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 (edited) 20 hours ago, netcoord99 said: FYI !! . The E-80 is a pirated copy of the ACE80 cartridge software and anyone attempting to use, promote, or sell it is in violation of copyright laws. Amiable Computer Enhancements owns the copyrights and I am requesting that and all forums (starting with this one) remove these types of promotions from their pages or they run the risk of prosecution by not just Amiable but all companies still in business. VCC and I are trying to bring the ACE80 cartridges back to the Atari community now so please don't hinder us doing that. Thanks! Attention: I apologize if the E-80 is the ACE80's grandfather and NOT part of the ACE80 line. Claus says he still owns his earliest version and has set me straight, but please discard all illegal ACE80 files if you have any and lets support all the vendors we have left. Our Atari community is a great one made up of old-timers and what looks like a lot of gamers from the past! And we appreciate your support in bringing the ACE80 line of carts back for you all too! Edited January 15, 2021 by netcoord99 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Rousseau Posted January 15, 2021 Author Share Posted January 15, 2021 Wow ! So many mails in 24h ! Ok, my upload first, then I read... Here is a disk image witch include an 80 columns software text file reader with source in 6502 Machine Language. I found this here: https://www.chebucto.ns.ca/Services/PDA/Atari8Misc.shtml All credits goes to (name in file). Just boot the disk (spartados 3.2g bootable and autorun.sys already on it) and select ASCII then the filename COL80.ASC This gives the feel of software 80 collumns VS XEP-80 ! Ok, time to read now... SpartaDOS_3.2g_with_DOS.atr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irgendwer Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 (edited) You can also find a 80 column handler in the German "AtariMagazin 5/87" on page 54: http://www.atarimania.com/mags/pdf/Atari-Magazin-87-05.pdf You download the magazine disk here: http://ataribasiclistings.mygamesonline.org/Atari_Magazin/Atari_Magazin_1987.7z Edited January 15, 2021 by Irgendwer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knimrod Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 23 hours ago, netcoord99 said: FYI !! . The E-80 is a pirated copy of the ACE80 cartridge software and anyone attempting to use, promote, or sell it is in violation of copyright laws. This is not true and a despicable attempt to tarnish the reputation of a true Atari pioneer who still actively supports this hobby.. ? 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drpeter Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 7 minutes ago, Knimrod said: This is not true and a despicable attempt to tarnish the reputation of a true Atari pioneer who still actively supports this hobby.. ? Even if it were true on some technical copyright law basis, the retro 8-bit software market is I suspect largely dependent on the 'feelgood' generated by nostalgia and goodwill. Threatening legal action over intellectual property obsolete for 30 years and with a minimal residual market seems to me a pretty daft way of shafting your own prospects for success. As for the likelihood of forcing the Atari piracy genie back in the bottle in 2021- where were these guys in the 1980s, when (in contrast to now) most of this stuff was not generally considered to be abandonware and in the public domain? Not saying copyright theft was right then or now, but a certain level of self-reflective pragmatism might be in order here... 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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