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phoboz

Metroidvania for Atari Jaguar - anyone?

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Overall, its unrealistic to expect something at the level of Metal Slug or KB for the Jaguar, I'm sorry to tell, you that. 

 

Unless it's a semi/not very official port from another platform. Not legal for sure, but if you look at the homebrew scene in general, the proportion of unofficial & unapproved ports is huge. And one of the reason is the very little price to "pay" for the graphic assets.

Edited by LordKraken
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Time for another update, this time I added some wall climbing enemies (e.g. the first monsters in the game)

It is now also possible to shoot in diagonal directions while jumping, or running.

 

Currently, I have no pixels artist supporting me, so I have to do everything using my own skill, or using free online resources. Thankfully there seems to be a good amount of Metroidvania related assets freely available.

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29 minutes ago, agradeneu said:

You miss my point - Kraut Busters is an example of an AAA level indie game, copying mostly from a cult classic Metal Slug, with the pitfall of being compared to it. 

Now, titles like KB create lot of hype and fans are expecting AAA level quality from an indie product - however, these sky high expectations come for a price.

 

Firstable, games like KB were backed by a Kickstarter campaign, usually devs making big promises and getting money from fans in advance.

But, then  you have to deal with huge delays: KB release was 3 years later, which disappointed even the most hardcore fan audience.

I don't need to tell the story of Paprium here. ;-)

 

All in all, a scenario like KB or Paprium is totally unrealitsic for Jaguar, and really nothing you want to expierence.

It just should tell you how risky it is to produce a title like KB, and mind you, the NEOGEO is a much more renowned platform than the Jaguar.

 

The amount that goes into those pixel artworks is insane, and nobody could or want do that without some form of financial backing.

NG Dev are an independent studio but they operate basically at a ver professional level. You have nothing like that on Jaguar.

 

As far as Legion Force Jidai goes, that never went beyond a title screen and a character animation.

 

Overall, its unrealistic to expect something at the level of Metal Slug or KB for the Jaguar, I'm sorry to tell you that. 

You're missing my point to, so I guess we're on the same page there. 💫 I was simply pointing out another game that took a lot of pixel effort from the same devs as Gunlord, and mentioned that a run 'n gun style game would be nice to see on the Jaguar since we have devs looking at filling in more "missing genres." I was not claiming that I expect to see Metal Slug or a close to exact copy there, not without a big, well-funded team coming together to do so. 

 

KB was not funded by Kickstarter, but pre-orders and took a little over 4 years to do. But it also wasn't the first game from those developers, whose career I've followed since the beginning - but again, I am not saying "you'd better bring Kraut Buster or Metal Slug to the Jaguar!," I was just mentioning a game from the same devs as Gunlord and that took me into musing about run 'n gun shooters. 

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You can't use sprites of Samus Aran. She is a copyrighted Nintendo IP.

 

Even though it looks like a mash up of Metroid Zero Mission Samus for GBA and fan art for the head, it's still Samus at the end of the day.

 

I only tell you this as advice because as soon as somebody from this forum reports this project to Nintendo Of America they will most definitely issue a mandate for cease and desist of this project and you will not be able to sell any loose green carts of it. Nintendo is VERY BIG about protecting their characters and IP. They have shut down MANY fan projects, don't even mention selling a product with their IP. I strongly suggest you change the character to something entirely different.

 

This is not metroid-vania as this name would imply that it has both elements of Metroid and Castlevania. I see no elements or anything that makes it look like Castlevania. It's just Metroid

 

I suggest you make an original character and if you are going to call it metroidvania (bad name btw) then implement elements that resemble gameplay elements from Castlevania.

 

Pause function was not present in Wormhole 2000. I would also suggest that this project has a pause function as people will complain about paying money for a new Jaguar game with no pause.

Edited by WAVE 1 GAMES
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15 minutes ago, WAVE 1 GAMES said:

You can't use sprites of Samus Aran. She is a copyrighted Nintendo IP.

 

Even though it looks like a mash up of Metroid Zero Mission Samus for GBA and fan art for the head, it's still Samus at the end of the day.

 

This is not metroid-vania as this name would imply that it has both elements of Metroid and Castlevania. I see no elements or anything that makes it look like Castlevania. It's just Metroid

 

I suggest you make an original character and if you are going to call it metroidvania (bad name btw) then implement elements that resemble gameplay elements from Castlevania.

 

Pause function was not present in Wormhole 2000. I would also suggest that this project has a pause function as people will complain about paying money for a new Jaguar game with no pause.

 

...and make sure it has solid hit-detection and no game crashing bugs.  🙃

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18 minutes ago, Machine said:

 

...and make sure it has solid hit-detection and no game crashing bugs.  🙃

keep making jokes. You aint funny and I wasn't trying to be either

 

 

watch what Nintendo will do with this if the character sprite and title doesn't change before this product is up for sale on cart

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The game is not supposed to be called Metroidvania, it's just the name of a genre. I haven't come up with a proper name yet. The main character is not final, I just used something to test the engine with.

 

Isn't Castlevania IP of Konami, e.g. the second part of genre name "Metroidvania"

 

What about Axiom Verge, isn't that also a Metroidvania game taking place on an alien planet without any vampires and castles? No one prevents it to be sold...

Edited by phoboz
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...and yes I am very sad that Nintendo pulled the plug on one of the best games ever made e.g. AM2R, but that one used assets directly from the Metroid games. Instead Nintendo released a 3D, but still 2D remake of Metroid 2, when everyone was actually hoping to see a legal version AM2R. Obviously, they couldn't, or were not willing to hire real pixel artists, instead they re-used the 3D artists to make a low polygon count 2D game using a 3D engine. 

Edited by phoboz
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3 hours ago, WAVE 1 GAMES said:

keep making jokes. You aint funny and I wasn't trying to be either

 

I think those two things, "proper hit detection and trying to limit game breaking bugs" are very important.  It can totally ruin what might have been a fun game. Nothing funny about that.

 

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Phoboz, if you need any ground tiles, sprites, etc. for this, I can help you. Of course, I can also recommend a few others from Newgrounds who happen to be good pixel artists.

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2 hours ago, phoboz said:

it's just the name of a genre

.

No it is not a genre. But I do understand what you mean and that you have no intention of keeping it that way, which is good 

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1 hour ago, WAVE 1 GAMES said:

No it is not a genre. But I do understand what you mean and that you have no intention of keeping it that way, which is good 

Ha, it has become a genre like 'retro' has become known as something that sort of looks like it would work on a 8 or 16bit era, but never could bwcause of sprite limits on those old systems, or the many rogue-lite / rogue-like have become a genre.  To be fair there have been games like Castlevania and mwtroid before metroid and castlevania, but it is what it is.  I am just looking forward to more games on the Jag and happy that someone is making them!  :)

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51 minutes ago, Zerosquare said:

This link only solidifies my point. It is not a genre.

 

Until the companies Nintendo and Capcom come forward and make it official, this is not nor will it ever be a genre. Thats why your wiki link says subgenre. That's like mixing gameplay elements from Mario and Pacman and naming it a new genre pacmanmario games. Thats like calling all First person shooters DOOM games.

 

can you imagine Nintendo releasing a new game from this "genre" and labeling it a "metroidvania" game? They cant because VANIA. Likewise Capcom nor any other company can use the name Metroid in their games. (Unless Nintendo gives them permission)

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Whether or not the term Metroidvania is a good term is irrelevant.  When somebody uses the term, we all (or most of us, at least) know what is being referred to.  It doesn't have to have themes from either Metroid or Castlevania.  It just needs to have the gameplay elements that most Metroids and the SotN-style Castlevanias share:

 

1) a 2D, sidescrolling view

2) one large interconnected map

3) exploration and backtracking

4) accessing new areas via newly found traversal abilities

 

The thing is, we need to have a term to represent this style of game.  Until something better takes its place, that term is Metroidvania.

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Just to be contrary, I view both Super Metroid and Symphony of the Night as Action-adventure games, just like Wonder Boy III: The Dragon's Trap.

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1 hour ago, WAVE 1 GAMES said:

This link only solidifies my point. It is not a genre.

 

Until the companies Nintendo and Capcom come forward and make it official, this is not nor will it ever be a genre. Thats why your wiki link says subgenre. That's like mixing gameplay elements from Mario and Pacman and naming it a new genre pacmanmario games. Thats like calling all First person shooters DOOM games.

 

can you imagine Nintendo releasing a new game from this "genre" and labeling it a "metroidvania" game? They cant because VANIA. Likewise Capcom nor any other company can use the name Metroid in their games. (Unless Nintendo gives them permission)

Ha, Pacmario would be fun.  Also, for YEARS people called them Doom clones, even though Wolf3d came out first.

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12 minutes ago, KidGameR186496 said:

Just to be contrary, I view both Super Metroid and Symphony of the Night as Action-adventure games, just like Wonder Boy III: The Dragon's Trap.

I am still stuck on that game.  Fun as hell though.  All remakes should work like that one where you can instantly switch between the original graphics and new or the music / sound individually.

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1 hour ago, PFG 9000 said:

Whether or not the term Metroidvania is a good term is irrelevant.  When somebody uses the term, we all (or most of us, at least) know what is being referred to.  It doesn't have to have themes from either Metroid or Castlevania.  It just needs to have the gameplay elements that most Metroids and the SotN-style Castlevanias share:

 

1) a 2D, sidescrolling view

2) one large interconnected map

3) exploration and backtracking

4) accessing new areas via newly found traversal abilities

 

The thing is, we need to have a term to represent this style of game.  Until something better takes its place, that term is Metroidvania.

Before the edit 1 hour ago the Wikipedia page for Castlevania SOTN said action adventure, platformer

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castlevania:_Symphony_of_the_Night

 

This is also the genre listed for Super Metroid and Metroid Zero Mission.

 

Not really a mystery, its action adventure and platformer.

 

Another game that comes to mind is ALIEN RAMPAGE for DOS. I can't find any info anywhere on that game anymore. Its like it no longer exists. It was a cool example though.

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1 hour ago, WAVE 1 GAMES said:

Before the edit 1 hour ago the Wikipedia page for Castlevania SOTN said action adventure, platformer

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castlevania:_Symphony_of_the_Night

 

This is also the genre listed for Super Metroid and Metroid Zero Mission.

 

Not really a mystery, its action adventure and platformer.

 

Another game that comes to mind is ALIEN RAMPAGE for DOS. I can't find any info anywhere on that game anymore. Its like it no longer exists. It was a cool example though.

PFG is correct: "Metroidvania" is a popular term that forms a sub genre for games that are specifically inspired by Metroid and Castlevania Symphony of the Night.

 

They can be quite original though, like "Guacamelee", where the main char is a luchador.

 

 

 

 

Similar terms that desribe a sub genre are "souls like", "rouge like", or "bullet hell"

Edited by agradeneu
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1 hour ago, KidGameR186496 said:

Just to be contrary, I view both Super Metroid and Symphony of the Night as Action-adventure games, just like Wonder Boy III: The Dragon's Trap.

Which is correct. However, "Metroidvania" is a retrospective term of modern gaming/developing, where the intent is to honour and reference two classics that are considered as genre defining masterpieces.

When both games were made, the term "Metroidvania" was not invented yet.

Edited by agradeneu
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3 hours ago, WAVE 1 GAMES said:

This link only solidifies my point. It is not a genre.

 

Until the companies Nintendo and Capcom come forward and make it official, this is not nor will it ever be a genre. Thats why your wiki link says subgenre. That's like mixing gameplay elements from Mario and Pacman and naming it a new genre pacmanmario games. Thats like calling all First person shooters DOOM games.

 

can you imagine Nintendo releasing a new game from this "genre" and labeling it a "metroidvania" game? They cant because VANIA. Likewise Capcom nor any other company can use the name Metroid in their games. (Unless Nintendo gives them permission)

I recommend reading that article then:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect

Edited by agradeneu

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That being said, it is true that most games people call "Metroidvania" are in fact only inspired by Metroid technically (after all SotN was influenced by Super Metroid anyway). So some purists prefer to call "Metroidvania" games that also feature RPG elements like SotN and the later Castlevania games. "Igavania" is even used for SotN clones (Iga being SotN's creator). Personally I tend to use "Metroid-like" for games without RPG elements, because I know it will upset some of my readers if I use "Metroidvania". 😅

 

But I tend to use "action/adventure" a lot too, since Metroid is a sidescrolling Zelda (or Zelda a top-down Metroid), basically.

Edited by roots.genoa

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12 hours ago, WAVE 1 GAMES said:

You can't use sprites of Samus Aran. She is a copyrighted Nintendo IP.

 

Even though it looks like a mash up of Metroid Zero Mission Samus for GBA and fan art for the head, it's still Samus at the end of the day.

 

I only tell you this as advice because as soon as somebody from this forum reports this project to Nintendo Of America they will most definitely issue a mandate for cease and desist of this project and you will not be able to sell any loose green carts of it. Nintendo is VERY BIG about protecting their characters and IP. They have shut down MANY fan projects, don't even mention selling a product with their IP. I strongly suggest you change the character to something entirely different.

 

This is not metroid-vania as this name would imply that it has both elements of Metroid and Castlevania. I see no elements or anything that makes it look like Castlevania. It's just Metroid

 

I suggest you make an original character and if you are going to call it metroidvania (bad name btw) then implement elements that resemble gameplay elements from Castlevania.

 

Pause function was not present in Wormhole 2000. I would also suggest that this project has a pause function as people will complain about paying money for a new Jaguar game with no pause.

The sprite looks similar to Samus but also similar to the Doom guy or any other character in a suit. It's not identical to the sprite in Metroid or taken from that game. It's from open game arts.

Guys in space suits are looking very similar across the board, the catch with Metroid is, that Samus is a woman and the shape is a bit more female. But thats not the case here.

 

 

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