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VCS Performance Benchmarks

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Would having 32GB ram help with software graphics rendering?

 

i like how the VCS isnt massively powerful like sony and microsoft. Limitation creates interest imo... breeds creativity. 

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below some CPU Mark figures:

 

VCS:   AMD Ryzen Embedded R1606G
    Average CPU Mark    4544
    https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+Ryzen+Embedded+R1606G&id=3659

 

AMD Ryzen 3 2300U
    Average CPU Mark    5335
    https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+Ryzen+3+2300U&id=3290

 

AMD Ryzen 3 3250U
    Average CPU Mark    4232
    https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+Ryzen+3+3250U&id=3722

 

IMO VCS looks fine its price range

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On 12/28/2020 at 10:49 AM, Mockduck said:

I don't really understand why people are using $400 as the price benchmark for equivalent DIY PC builds. First, none of the 11,000 or so people getting this console paid $400 for it; we paid $300 max, and it included a $60 controller supplied by PowerA. So, equivalent price point for spec comparison is approximately $240-250, not $400. Even the alleged current sale price of $380 isn't $400. Atari may theoretically charge $400 in the future (although I think that is a big mistake), but they have not so far. And if they do, that $400 price point includes both a classic and modern controller made by PowerA that is selling for $60 each at retail, so even that overly-high $400 price point is only $280ish for the actual "console" part of the console. Seems like people should be basing comparison specs on $250ish PCs/laptops for equivalents. 

This is a tactic PC gamers use against even Microsoft and Sony consoles as well.   Why buy a console when you can buy a better PC for the same money?   But the PC build they list is never an apples-to-apples comparison.  It's always lacking some key thing like Windows license, and Keyboard/Mouse.   And doesn't take into account that the console ships with a $60 controller and blu-ray.   In the end when you add the missing features to the build, it costs nearly twice as much. as the console.

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7 hours ago, AlecRob said:

Would having 32GB ram help with software graphics rendering?

 

i like how the VCS isnt massively powerful like sony and microsoft. Limitation creates interest imo... breeds creativity. 

There's also tons of modern games that don't require high-end GPUs.   I know someone with a PC that has a GT-710 which is a cheap non-gaming fanless card.   I'm always surprised at what it can run.   When people say it sucks for modern gaming, they really mean the AAA games with setting cranked up to ultra.   If that's your gaming style,  then VCS shouldn't be your primary console.  But at least half the games in my Steam collection should run on the VCS hardware with no issues. 

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3 hours ago, Cyprian said:

below some CPU Mark figures:

 

VCS:   AMD Ryzen Embedded R1606G
    Average CPU Mark    4544
    https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+Ryzen+Embedded+R1606G&id=3659

 

AMD Ryzen 3 2300U
    Average CPU Mark    5335
    https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+Ryzen+3+2300U&id=3290

 

AMD Ryzen 3 3250U
    Average CPU Mark    4232
    https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+Ryzen+3+3250U&id=3722

 

IMO VCS looks fine its price range

CPU is good for emulation, surfing the internet, and general computing tasks.  Of course, GPU benchmarks and benchmarks of real games are also important measurements for a game console. 

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7 hours ago, AlecRob said:

Would having 32GB ram help with software graphics rendering?

 

i like how the VCS isnt massively powerful like sony and microsoft. Limitation creates interest imo... breeds creativity. 

Does the Atari OS let me work "on the metal"? How can I get creative?

 

The other consoles have already introduced a series of techniques (like checkerboard rendering) to get more performance--and that came from AAA studios with teams of talented engineers. How can indies push the VCS further?

 

Some may disagree, but I believe:  reducing the load on the GPU by completely removing complexity from visuals or game deaign isn't creativity; that's just ordinary compromise.

 

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57 minutes ago, zzip said:

This is a tactic PC gamers use against even Microsoft and Sony consoles as well.   Why buy a console when you can buy a better PC for the same money?   But the PC build they list is never an apples-to-apples comparison.  It's always lacking some key thing like Windows license, and Keyboard/Mouse.   And doesn't take into account that the console ships with a $60 controller and blu-ray.   In the end when you add the missing features to the build, it costs nearly twice as much. as the console.

I agree that users need to find a controller. After that, you landed in the bunker.

 

 • Does the VCS include a Windows license? 

 • Does the VCS have an optical drive for Blu-ray?

 • Do I still need to purchase a keyboard and mouse to use the VCS as a computer?

Edited by orange808
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1 minute ago, orange808 said:

I agree that users need to find a controller. After that, you landed in the bunker.

 

 • Does the VCS include a Windows license? 

 • Does the VCS had an optical drive for Blu-ray?

 • Do I still need to purchase a keyboard and mouse to use the VCS as a computer?

I was talking about dishonest comparison against PS4/Xbox one specifically.  Those systems have blu-ray drives, so an apples-to-apples PC should have one.   A PC needs an OS.   AAA games that people play on PS4/Xb1 generally only run on Windows, not Linux, so a Windows license would be needed.   You could run the PC in Steam Big Picture mode for a console experience, but you would need a keyboard + mouse to install the system to that point (you could probably skip the mouse and hit the tab key alot)

 

The VCS has an OS already, it's designed to be used with the controller.    If you want to go beyond that, you will probably need a KB/mouse.   But the microPCs it gets compared to would need them as well.  It doesn't need a bluray, and it's not being compared to PCs with Blurays.

 

All I'm saying is make the comparisons as fair as possible

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Just now, zzip said:

...The VCS has an OS already, it's designed to be used with the controller...

 

...All I'm saying is make the comparisons as fair as possible...

Agreed. People should factor in the cost of Windows if they plan to use it.

 

The VCS does ship with an OS, but Linux is free. It was free when Atari forked it and it's free to download for people that build a PC. So, comparisons to a Linux box build are best. Although, my earlier mention of the Alpha still makes sense  because that shipped with an OS.

 

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Here in the Netherlands, there are regularly offers to get a legal licence for Windows Home about 30 EUR. 🙂
These are usually included with a training course, or a broken PC.
I have an legal activated Windows licence for every personal system I own, even those running Linux 24x7.
It's also still possible to upgrade from Windows 7 or Windows 8, despite the apparent closure of that offer.

Incidentally, the VCS does work with a USB DVD writer, and I even have a matching USB 3.5" floppy drive! :-D

My Windows 10 install is not just for my Steam library, but also to benchmark the system with Windows 10.
I'm not expecting great results from the floppy drive... yeah. In fact, I'm not even install the O/S from that! 😕 

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3DMark updated their database to recognize the Ryzen Embedded R1606G processor, so my benchmarks are now showing in the search.

 

Here are the original benchmarks I ran.

 

Time Spy: http://www.3dmark.com/spy/16790614

Night Raid: http://www.3dmark.com/nr/382844

Sky Diver: http://www.3dmark.com/sd/6163621

Fire Strike: http://www.3dmark.com/fs/24476655

API Overhead: http://www.3dmark.com/aot/392801

 

I also just reran the tests after upgrading to 32GB of RAM.

 

Time Spy: http://www.3dmark.com/spy/17211394

Night Raid: http://www.3dmark.com/nr/390309

Sky Diver: http://www.3dmark.com/sd/6175100

Fire Strike: http://www.3dmark.com/fs/24593850

API Overhead: http://www.3dmark.com/aot/395603

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Hi guys!

I just got my VCS about a little over two weeks ago (am an original 800 Collectors Edition backer), and thought to share with you some of the performance benchmarks I'd been getting with it on Windows 10. Despite its size I'm really surprised at the performance of this little unit - it is rather peppy! I upgraded both the RAM and storage to 32GB 2666Mhz DDR4 and 500GB m.2 SATA SSD - but I did do some speed tests with it BEFORE the upgrade and have those benchmarks noted. I found the extra RAM didn't do too much of an improvement, but the system was able to run very smoothly including run Cyberpunk 2077 on the low settings. It could also do Cyberpunk in 4K - just that the FPS would be in the under 10s. So without much further ado, here they are:

VCS before RAM upgrade
geekbench-vcsbeforeupg.thumb.png.7f903aa5ead680bf4b698ceaa97a5be9.png

VCS after 32GB RAM upgrade
geekbench-vcsafter32gbupg.thumb.png.c34f3f80e07f2b1269e13671a82e06db.png

atarivcs-geekbench2b.thumb.png.d185be31668d2988531581514c4ed70e.png

WD Blue 500GB m.2 SATA SSD upgrade results:
ajatestatarivcsb.thumb.png.33185f8ce6f938d401bad6f2e4907782.png

Unigine Valley:
unigine-valley.thumb.png.b7346eb8cc15e9d24e2a79ab4b250eae.png

Unigine Superposition:
unigine-superposition.thumb.png.1483138fd88b047164abaefffceea969.png

CPUID specs:
atarivcs-cpuid.png.6825f55c621ee71f930dd8231aa635b7.png

atarivcs-cpuid2.png.b8507072a9cc15a05cab9e8e91d32568.png

Copy speeds via USB3 stick to internal SSD:
copyspeedvcs2.png.eb5648df7d1c00c8b4f3ae2b91c7fe83.png

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Here's another kind of benchmark, showing performance via Windows.
Where there is a cross-platform benchmark, I think it's more interesting, 
but I have to say the graphics on that are beautiful, and 30fps looks fine.
 

 

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I'm not impressed.

 

The CPU benchmarks are a different story.  Perhaps there will be Groovymame/Groovyarcade support for the VCS.  That would be an appealing use case for the machine.  Although, it would need proper driver support, because we can already get wrong speed or frame rate conversion on other PC's.  I want the refesh rate to perfectly match the source (not get close with mode lines). The VCS has one predictable GPU configuration, so that could be an advantage.  I'd love to see a turnkey Groovymame console solution.

 

 

Edited by orange808

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This is an interesting set of benchmarks with games, and some amazing FPS here!
 

 

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On 1/26/2021 at 8:39 PM, orange808 said:

I'm not impressed.

 

The CPU benchmarks are a different story.  Perhaps there will be Groovymame/Groovyarcade support for the VCS.  That would be an appealing use case for the machine.  Although, it would need proper driver support, because we can already get wrong speed or frame rate conversion on other PC's.  I want the refesh rate to perfectly match the source (not get close with mode lines). The VCS has one predictable GPU configuration, so that could be an advantage.  I'd love to see a turnkey Groovymame console solution.

 

 

You want to connect the new vcs to an old crt?

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9 hours ago, mr_me said:

You want to connect the new vcs to an old crt?

Not directly.  With an HDFury Nano, that would be a possibility, but Groovymame can be used with modern displays as well.  The specifics vary from case to case.  Everyone that can run Groovymame benefits from using it (even without a CRT).

 

You can also take advantage of "variable refresh tech"** (although the main branch of Mame has adopted that feature as well).  Mame still hasn't closed the performance gap with Groovy and Groovy maintains frame delay (and other) latency advantages over standard Mame.  (That's okay, because Mame's primary mission is bigger than just latency.)

 

I don't know what kind of frame delay we could expect from the VCS, but a small tidy little Mame console could carve out a niche.

 

 

**(There are four implementations of VRR:  VESA Displayport VRR, Gsync, Freesync, and HDMI 2.1 VRR.  The specifics for each user will vary from case to case.)

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I keep hearing how a 10-year old PC is faster than my new VCS. Let's see...
I thought I'd try the Heaven benchmark on some other systems I have use of.
Of course, most people here have gaming PCs, and money to burn, but I don't,
and I'm not alone. I tried 3 of my systems, and you can compare them to VCS.

Maybe you can add your gaming-PCs and potatoes, for more amusement!
https://benchmark.unigine.com/heaven

I thought my work-provided 15" Macbook-Pro would be interesting for starters.
Of course, it runs MacOS. (It's running the very latest version of MacOS Catalina.)
It's just over 5 years old, 4 cores, 8 threads, Intel GPU.
The laptop display is a bit less than full-HD, of course.

heaven_mac.thumb.jpeg.d3ba5a1f4293b3088b440893674da65c.jpeg

I also have an Fujitsu Esprimo q520 mini-PC, Intel i3, Intel GPU, 16GB RAM.
I use the machine as a desktop, with virtualisation, and software development.
It's just over 5 years old, 2 cores, 4 threads, Intel GPU. (Accelerated driver.)
It also ran my Linux Steam game collection. It's running Ubuntu 20.04 LTS.
heaven_minipc.thumb.jpeg.0ef774091a63002cb0db34a9b9f1395e.jpeg

I also have an HP mini-tower, Intel i5, with an (upgraded!) Nvidia card. 
(I got this 2nd-hand last year, as a compact mini-tower while I am tele-working.)
It's about 7 years old, 2 cores, 4 threads, upgraded Nvidia graphics card installed.
It runs Windows 10, desktop applications, with Hyper-V virtualisation, just fine.
heaven_2ndhand.thumb.jpeg.88cae4aa3015a547a6249daf198e80a4.jpeg

If anybody has an old gaming PC they want to dispose of, I'm happily accept donations,
ha ha, to accelerate some hobby game projects.
🙂 Yeah, I'm not expecting any offers! :-D 
In The Netherlands, a refurbished Esprimo min-PC is still selling for over 300 EUR.

https://www.remarkt.nl/fujitsu-esprimo-q520-usdt-core-i5-4570-4gb-500gb-ssd-hdmi.html

Previous VCS (see previous message in this thread)
This is a previous VCS benchmark, but it's not 1920x1080, so I will run it myself, when I have time.

heaven_vcs.jpeg

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56 minutes ago, justclaws said:

I keep hearing how a 10-year old PC is faster than my new VCS

Do people really say that, though?

 

Seeing some benchmarks could be interesting but you need to keep the parametres the same across all the platforms, otherwise it's pointless (like the one above).

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4 hours ago, justclaws said:


I also have an HP mini-tower, Intel i5, with an (upgraded!) Nvidia card. 
(I got this 2nd-hand last year, as a compact mini-tower while I am tele-working.)
It's about 7 years old, 2 cores, 4 threads, upgraded Nvidia graphics card installed.
It runs Windows 10, desktop applications, with Hyper-V virtualisation, just fine.

You say "upgraded Nvidia card" but your screenshot says Quadro 400, which is a 10 years old entry level card that was never meant for any gaming. 
So it's kind normal that the VCS would do better than that. The reverse would be quite worrying.

Comparison with the Mac Book and Fujitsi mini pc are more interesting
 

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3 hours ago, Zor said:

You say "upgraded Nvidia card" but your screenshot says Quadro 400, which is a 10 years old entry level card that was never meant for any gaming. 
So it's kind normal that the VCS would do better than that. The reverse would be quite worrying.

I totally agree. What I meant is, it was an upgrade from what shipped in the machine!
The Quadro 400 is much better than the original HP card, and the PC is only 7 years old! :-D 
("
The Quadro 400 was a mid-range professional graphics card by NVIDIA, launched in April 2011.")
https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/quadro-400.c1317

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10 minutes ago, justclaws said:

I totally agree. What I meant is, it was an upgrade from what shipped in the machine!
The Quadro 400 is much better than the original HP card, and the PC is only 7 years old! :-D 
("
The Quadro 400 was a mid-range professional graphics card by NVIDIA, launched in April 2011.")
https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/quadro-400.c1317

Ha the article I googled (was in French I think), called it something like ultra low range, apparently it was selling at 150€ in 2011. Subjective I guess :)

Out of curiosity, do you need that many machines ? Looks like if you combined the price of all these, you could have gotten one more powerful PC ? Unless they were all hand-me downs of course :)

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Yeah, this argument basically boils down to 2020 potato PC is better than 2010-15 potato PC. 😀


Anyway, I ran Unigine Heaven on my HTPC, at what I'd assume were the same settings as the VCS, and it scored 3025 (120.1 FPS.)

 

That's not a particularly modern or high end games PC. The original build cost in 2013 was under $400, and it's had around $200 of upgrades since, including a more modern graphics card from 2016. I've got other PCs, some of which would score higher and others lower, but that's probably the fairest comparison as it was built to fill much the same niche as the VCS.

 

I also reckon that you should give the MacBook another go on the same settings as the VCS as it ought to be a pretty close run thing between Vega 3 and Iris Pro 5200.

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Judging by the benchmarks I wouldn't bother trying to use the VCS as a Windows gaming PC. Its just a low powered mini PC so should be treated as such.

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