Stoopid M$

[ParanoidLittleMan]

Well, it was nice to see that Windows finally made access to all partitions on removable (mostly Flash cards attached via USB reader), somewhere at summer of last year in Win 10.

And that was useful especially for Atari ST users with some of adapters for Flash cards and TOS/DOS compatible partitions - easy data transfer with some PC.

And then, in last month I just lost access to first partition on removable - partitioned with my SW on Ataris. Certainly as result of some update. And not only me, got e-mail about it too. Very funny - earlier versions allowed access to only first partition, and now latest Win 10 update does just opposite ?

Started today to examine it, and it is really confusing. Will need more time and some experimenting.

Question: anyone experienced similar problem, not able to access all partitions on removable with latest Win 10 versions/updates ? Of course, here I mean access to FAT16, DOS compatible partitions without extra SW, so they appear in Windows File Explorer.

[Atari8guy]

I can access them all on my Win10 PC but I can't access the first partition on my MiST from within the MiSTery core.  From the MiST setup itself, via the OSD I can though.  It is definitely weird behavior, but kind of nice for MiST.  I don't see all the MiST config files in the first ST Drive any longer, which prevents me from accidentally messing with them.  This happened after I reformatted the SD on my PC and then reran your set up program.  Prior to that I had access to all partitions from within the MiSTery core and the PC.  I just figured I did something wrong...perhaps this is unrelated, but it seems similar and maybe linked? 

The other thing that changed is previously on my PC each partition would get its own drive letter (E:, F:, G:, for example), now, I get E1:, E2:, E3: instead.  To me that sounds like something M$ would put in their update, it kind of makes sense, since all those partitions on are a single device, but it's still weird to see.     

[ParanoidLittleMan]

Those E1, E2, E3 are not drive letters, they are volume labels which my partitioner creates. Actually it is P1 for first, primary type partition, E2, E3 are  extended partitions.

Windows will assign for them free drive letters - for instance if there is C,D,E,H for hard disk partitions in PC, then it will assign F,G, I, J ... for partitions on removable.

 

I found what is problem: second  byte of partition record now (according to Microsoft) can not hold value 1, that's 'invalid' . However that's usual value there, because that field is for CHS value of first partition, and it is usually 1. Surely, CHS is obsolete, but it really harms nothing to have there value 1, and 3 bytes reserved for it are not used for something other.

 

I just wrote there $80, detached card, and reinserted - and Win 10 mounted first partition too. Fine. Then, let's see other cards, and surprise: it mounted first partition on them, even if there was value 1 on that loc. by them !  Then I reinserted card where I corrected that value, and wrote there 1, to restore original value - and after reinsert it still mounted first partition on card ... Some kind of A.I. ? ?  I even restarted Win, and it still recognizes first partitions now. Really funny.

 

Now, question is will need to make some simple program to correct that value in MBR, so people can easily override problem ?

[Atari8guy]

On 1/19/2021 at 11:05 AM, ParanoidLittleMan said:

Those E1, E2, E3 are not drive letters, they are volume labels which my partitioner creates. Actually it is P1 for first, primary type partition, E2, E3 are  extended partitions.

Windows will assign for them free drive letters - for instance if there is C,D,E,H for hard disk partitions in PC, then it will assign F,G, I, J ... for partitions on removable.

 

 

I stand corrected.    

 

I think making a tool and hosting it on your site makes good sense.  If it's easy for you to do.  

[ParanoidLittleMan]

Here is fixing tool:  ACSIFIXT.ZIP

Read included instructions. This is for ACSI devices only - like UltraSatan, Satandisk, GigaFile, diverse ACSI-SCSI adapters, etc. If there will be need, I will make program version for IDE disks (CF cards) too.

[snarkdluG]

Thanks!

[Goochman]

Does this work for any Ultrasatan formatted card such as using the ICD drivers or just for those that have yours?

[ParanoidLittleMan]

I don't think that ICD drivers support DOS type partitions. Can you access files, partitions on SD cards with some modern OS directly, without extra SW ?

In any case, use this only in case of problem, and that's is not be able to access first partitions on Flash cards with Win 10. Not working autoboot can be fixed with reinstalling driver.  And just doing Check will not harm for sure.

[ParanoidLittleMan]

And something bad happened again - this time not with Atari .  So, I used 64 GB micro SD card for about half year with my couple years old TV, mostly to watch movies, TV serials, some sport events I recorded from TV.  It was formatted with NTFS - that's needed for files larger than 4 GB, and TV played practically everything, except some very old AVI files.

And couple days ago I added something new, usual MP4 file, and turned off computer (saving on electricity), and inserted SD card in USB adapter in TV - nothing. Repeated insert - nothing. Checked with Pen drive - works. OK, let's sleep. Next day more checks, and no, it's not card or adapter dead - works with PC, everything is there. Hmm - connector on USB adapter no good ? Cleaned - nothing better. Then inserted micro SD card via USB reader - still nothing. Some checks more, and I came to conclusion that only explanation is that Win 10 wrote something somewhere, and that's why TV don't accept it. OK, let's format it. Kept all same, quick format, and yes - TV accepted it, and played that video what I just copied there.

Well, I don't think that there was some error in filesystem - that would be indicated by Windows. Most likely, again some crap is written in MBR or in system area of single partition.  So, I will now save first like 20 MBs of it, to have with what to compare if problem appears again .  Too much updates, made in rush, bugs ?

[TGB1718]

4 hours ago, ParanoidLittleMan said:

Too much updates, made in rush, bugs ?

Agreed, like most companies they just don't do "Proper" testing.

[Bikerbob]

I have not noticed not being able to access anything yet Peter, I am putting in USB drives 128mb 256mb 1gb 2gb.   I use them on my MegaSTE with Lightning VME and my TT with Lightning Storm and Thunder. 

 

The only thing that bugs me is the whole system volume information.   What I have learned though is that Kobold is able to delete it. Nice. 

 

James

[ParanoidLittleMan]

iTOS filters LFN problematic parts out (as well my hard disk driver SW) . Deleting it is not hard to solve, but then, Windows will write it again, so not really much helping.

And problem is not that there are few short files with strange names, long file names are real problem - TOS will handle extra records in directory - which are used for longer file names, since they fit not in usual 32 byte space , like regular files, because is not ready to attribute combination what means: extra dir record, not another file.  And depending on content of those extra records diverse problems happen:  TOS will see it as some very long file, so will give false info about logical drive.

Attempt of deleting such 'file' may result in diverse bad things, and that can be even damaging of data structure, data loss. Therefore those extra records need to be ignored by TOS. And that's what I solved in 2014, and added to my driver SW.  Even better space for it is TOS self, so LFN filtering is in iTOS.

As said it does not delete those SystemVolume and like files - no use, they will coma back, just makes TOS not accessing extra record fields. What filename is visible is 8.3 type file name, usually with number at end. 

All above does not mean that people should not care about LFN when copy files under Win to Atari storage. Avoid long file names. If some PRG is named like:

MeBest.prg - wrong. That will have extra field, so problems.  Must rename it to MEBEST.PRG, before copy . Or use Total Commander, what can automatizing that process.

Configuration, Options, Display, then do unrecommended thing - uncheck 'Use long names' .  And don't forget to check on back, when done with Atari file transfer.

[walter_J64bit]

You need to have an XP machine I've run into something like this with my jaguar skunkboard. It was running just fine in an earlier versions Windows 10 than one day Windows 10 couldn't see the skunkboard any more but in XP the skunkboard works just fine. IDK

[+DarkLord]

Just for the fun of it I stuck an Atari readied 2 gig SanDisk SD card with 4 partitions in this Windows 10 box

I just setup (my former Windows 7 box suffered a friend motherboard).

 

I showed access to all 4 partitions - all 4 were mounted. When I went to remove the card and unmount

it, unmounting one partition unmounted them all.

 

Under Windows 7, this same card only gave access to the very first partition.

 

I'm sure MS will continue to find a way to make life difficult. 

 

[ParanoidLittleMan]

It is known Win behavior (to say so) that mounts only first partition on removable. First time corrected about 1 year ago in Win10 current update/release.

There are diverse driver fixes to override that problem, and I used them in last 10 years.

Like: http://atari.8bitchip.info/profb/cfadisk_x86_x64.zip

 

Now, I have second PC with Win XP, mostly because video capturing and old Pinnacle TV card what has no driver for later Win versions. So, I will just check does it write some index crap on attached media. Probably it started with Win 7 or 8 .

 

Surely, it's not retro computer users about who MS cares most. Although, I really can't get that only first partition restriction. Was it because some safety, or just lazy solution. They got probably during years over million complains, so finally gave task to some talented new programmer (which are those who get hard work in 'normal' company) - so it is done, maybe not 100% yet .