Is there a reason to get a VA3 if I have a VA4?

[Steven Pendleton]

Everyone always talks about how good the VA3's audio is. I have a VA4, which also supposedly has basically the same or similar audio. I've also got a few others, but I don't use them since they are not as good as my VA4 and forget what motherboard revisions they are. I want to say my other Mega Drive is a VA6 and my Mega Drive 2 is a VA0. The VA6 has bad jailbars and the MD2 has distorted audio. Aside from the VA4's video problem with OSSC timings when used with the 32X, is there any reason to try to find a VA3?

[+-^CrossBow^-]

I would just look into an amp replacement designed for the model 1 systems and have proper audio as Sega always intended but never gave us on the Megadrive/Genesis consoles hehe.

 

[sn8k]

Unless you play Hellfire.......

 

 

No.

[Steven Pendleton]

2 hours ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

I would just look into an amp replacement designed for the model 1 systems and have proper audio as Sega always intended but never gave us on the Megadrive/Genesis consoles hehe.

 

I am generally against any mods for anything except my Neo Geo, which I did the basic RGB bypass (cutting the traces) on, and the Nomad, which I will eventually be sending to Mobius Strip Tech once shipping prices in Japan return to normal, but I was considering perhaps triple bypassing my VA4.

1 hour ago, sn8k said:

Unless you play Hellfire.......

 

 

No.

I do play Hellfire occasionally, but always on the Mega Sg. Is there something that's broken on the VA4? I don't play it on my Nomad because of the thing with the YM3438 busy behaviour, but I've never heard of it not working on the VA4 since that has the YM2612. I'm not home right now and can't check until tonight when I get home, but I'll look into it when I get back.

[sn8k]

8 hours ago, Steven Pendleton said:

I do play Hellfire occasionally, but always on the Mega Sg. Is there something that's broken on the VA4? I don't play it on my Nomad because of the thing with the YM3438 busy behaviour, but I've never heard of it not working on the VA4 since that has the YM2612. I'm not home right now and can't check until tonight when I get home, but I'll look into it when I get back.

 The very first Genesis 1 model and 1  of the model 2's revisions has that sound chip not present  in any of the other models. I paid $90 for a mint boxed copy of Hellfire.

 

Took it home, popped it in and my ears were bleeding. Music had slowed to a crawl, but the gameplay remained full speed.

 

7 Genesis consoles later.......I was able to finally get the right revision of model 2 that can play Hellfire without issue. It was an ordeal.  Since I dont like the model 2, the search continued. I eventually got it. A guy I know who sells retro games and consoles out of his trunk had what I was looking for. We must have tested 8 or 9 different model 1's until we got the right one.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 23, 2021 by sn8k

[Steven Pendleton]

3 minutes ago, sn8k said:

 The very first Genesis 1 model and 1  of the model 2's revisions has that sound chip not present  in any of the other models. I paid $90 for a mint boxed copy of Hellfire.

 

Took it home, popped it in and my ears were bleeding. Music had slowed to a crawl, but the gameplay remained full speed.

 

7 Genesis consoles later.......I was able to finally get the right revision of model 2 that can play Hellfire without issue. It was an ordeal.  Since I dont like the model 2, the search continued. I eventually got it. A guy I know who sells retro games and consoles out of his trunk had what I was looking for. We must have tested 8 or 9 different model 1's until we got the right one.

 

 

 

 

Um... okay. I literally just got done testing it and the music plays at full speed on my VA4, so...

[sn8k]

Just now, Steven Pendleton said:

Um... okay. I literally just got done testing it and the music plays at full speed on my VA4, so...

Then lucky you. Ive got 7 consoles and only 2 of them can run the games soundtrack at full speed.

[Steven Pendleton]

Just now, sn8k said:

Then lucky you. Ive got 7 consoles and only 2 of them can run the games soundtrack at full speed.

It's something to do with the busy behaviour on the YM3438. There was some error with the YM2612's busy behaviour that Toaplan used to their advantage to get the music to play at the proper speed. Sega fixed the YM3438's busy behaviour to be the way it was supposed to be, which broke Hellfire's audio. Any Mega Drive variant with a YM2612 should play the music properly and any variant with a YM3438 should be incorrect... unless you use the new Retro-Bit release, which fixed it so it works properly on the YM3438.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

The issue with Hellfire is as @Steven Pendleton states. So the only model 1 that would have issue with the game is the dreaded va7. Easy to spot as the power port on the back is moved over about an inch inward from where it is on the other models. The model 1 va7 is basically a model 2 in design to fit inside the model 1 case shell. Most of the model 2 units have the embedded 3438 synth in the main ASIC. It is only the 3/4mainboard models that went back to the dedicated YM2612 on the main board and those model 2 variants are highly sought after as they give audio that is near the quality of the earlier model 1 units without all the visual issues of the earlier model 1 units in regards to RGB jailbars and blurry composite.

 

@Steven Pendleton the amp bypass I'm talking about is all internal and simply replaces the original preamp section in the genesis console. If you don't want to case mod the system, you just route the output from the small replacement amp to the front headphone jack. That does require cutting the original input lines to the headphone jack so that the internal amp isn't still connected but yeah. From the outside you wouldn't know anything was done. Doesn't require any trace cuts on the board either. Just requires removing most of the caps near the audio section and routing the audio signals from those cap locations to the mini mega amp board. However, if you were to go ahead with a triple bypass board, then the replacement audio amp is included in that bypass board most of the time although it is done a bit differently.

[Steven Pendleton]

32 minutes ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

The issue with Hellfire is as @Steven Pendleton states. So the only model 1 that would have issue with the game is the dreaded va7. Easy to spot as the power port on the back is moved over about an inch inward from where it is on the other models. The model 1 va7 is basically a model 2 in design to fit inside the model 1 case shell. Most of the model 2 units have the embedded 3438 synth in the main ASIC. It is only the 3/4mainboard models that went back to the dedicated YM2612 on the main board and those model 2 variants are highly sought after as they give audio that is near the quality of the earlier model 1 units without all the visual issues of the earlier model 1 units in regards to RGB jailbars and blurry composite.

 

@Steven Pendleton the amp bypass I'm talking about is all internal and simply replaces the original preamp section in the genesis console. If you don't want to case mod the system, you just route the output from the small replacement amp to the front headphone jack. That does require cutting the original input lines to the headphone jack so that the internal amp isn't still connected but yeah. From the outside you wouldn't know anything was done. Doesn't require any trace cuts on the board either. Just requires removing most of the caps near the audio section and routing the audio signals from those cap locations to the mini mega amp board. However, if you were to go ahead with a triple bypass board, then the replacement audio amp is included in that bypass board most of the time although it is done a bit differently.

Interesting. I'll think about it. I'm mainly thinking of triple bypassing it because that will get rid of my jailbars and also hopefully clean up the video signal, which has a lot of noise that I can clearly see on my monitor.

 

I'm going to Akiba in about 12 hours, so I'll look at Mega Drives. I don't think they will let me open them to inspect the motherboards, but I'll look around to see if I find any Mega Drives with a 1990 or 1989 date. My VA4 has a 1990 date on it, so I'm guessing that I should be looking at systems from 89 or 90 if I want a VA3. I was quite lucky to get a VA4 in great condition on my first try. The other 2 I bought from a friend for 1000 yen each just because he wanted to get rid of them.

 

I found a 1988 about a year ago. It was still sitting there the last time I checked about a month or 2 ago, but that's probably a VA0 or a VA1. It's in pristine condition externally, though. Mega Drives are not cheap at around 9000 yen for just the system + controller + cables, but I'll see what I can find.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

I have a va3 JPN megadrive. Just had to go off the text around the ring and look carefully for the TM logo on the upper right of the Sega logo in the lower right of the console. That is how I got my earlier model MD to add to my collection. Really nice console although it was a bit strange to see the cart lock mech on it (Which I undid and reinstalled to not work) so that I can use all carts into it and also odd to NOT see the RF output or RF shielding in the thing.

 

[RetroSonicHero]

Wanted to bump this thread to discuss my findings.

 

From what I've gathered, all Model 1s from VA0 to VA6.8 have near identical audio quality, if not the same. (I saw one guy on Reddit saying that Japanese VA5s have the best sound quality out of all the Model 1s, but I can't confirm if that's the case and it doesn't line up with what a lot of others are saying). The only one you really need to look out for are the VA7s, which are the only ones with decreased sound quality.

 

There are very easy ways to tell them apart, so use this guide if you're looking at them online:

 

 

The Ones With Serial (Ext.) Ports

ALL of these have good sound quality. There might be some minor differences between the revisions I'm not aware of, but I've listened to most of them and I genuinely cannot tell the difference. This applies to VA0 - VA6.

 

 

The Ones With The Blank Spot On The Left

If you see this, the console is either a VA6.5 or VA6.8. Both of these are essentially the same as the VA6, except for the lack of a serial port. Regardless, the sound quality is on par with the other revisions.

 

 

The Ones With The Ports Shifted Over And The Blank Spot On the Right

The console above is a VA7. These are the only ones you need to look out for if your concern is audio quality, as it has been decreased. It's essentially the same sound circuit board used on the VA0, VA1 and VA1.8 Model 2 revisions. It's not unplayable, but it could be better. Especially when you consider the fact that the sound was greatly improved for the VA2 and VA2.3 revisions of the Model 2. (With the exception being the PSG sounds, which took a hit). So yeah, at that point you're just better off getting a Model 2. 

Keep in mind, this is just a guideline. Your experience may vary slightly depending on your console and the age of the components, but this is a good rule of thumb because we know for a fact that SEGA reduced the audio quality for the VA7. They're aren't that common, however. You're more likely to find the other revisions, as the VA7 was made from 1992-1993.

 

Myself? I own a Japanese VA6 Model 1 and I love it to death.

 

 

Edited August 1, 2021 by RetroSonicHero