7800 Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 So, here is exactly what I want to do... I want to take a Sega Genesis (NTSC) and use an HDRetrovision Component cable... and somehow adapt (or convert?) the signal for use with an old CRT VGA computer monitor. I did a search for component to VGA adapters/converters and there's a variety of different ones. Before I spend the money on one, I wanted to see if anyone had any luck with hooking up old RGB native systems to a VGA monitor. If so... what did you use, how did you do it?? I would appreciate any advice or information on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatPix Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 There are two issues in connecting video RGB to VGA : - sync signal difference. Video RGB use composite video (technically, it use an analog sync signal embedded in the composite signal) VGA use two digital signals defining the vertical and horizontal resolution. This one problem is adressed rather easily with the LM 1881 chip. However, you will run in a second problem, which is that standard Tv use interlaced video, which produce a 15 Khtz signal. VGA standard is progressive signal, which mean that the display will expect a 30 khtz signal. So unless you got the odd chance of a VGA display supporting 15 khtz (age doesn't mean anything, vintage amber CRT might refuse to display interlaced video while recent flatscreens will accept it) So to answer your first question, you will basically need an active converter stepping up your RGB signal to standard VGA, unless you can try and test and see if your display can support 15 Khtz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7800 Posted February 1, 2021 Author Share Posted February 1, 2021 3 hours ago, CatPix said: There are two issues in connecting video RGB to VGA : - sync signal difference. Video RGB use composite video (technically, it use an analog sync signal embedded in the composite signal) VGA use two digital signals defining the vertical and horizontal resolution. This one problem is adressed rather easily with the LM 1881 chip. However, you will run in a second problem, which is that standard Tv use interlaced video, which produce a 15 Khtz signal. VGA standard is progressive signal, which mean that the display will expect a 30 khtz signal. So unless you got the odd chance of a VGA display supporting 15 khtz (age doesn't mean anything, vintage amber CRT might refuse to display interlaced video while recent flatscreens will accept it) So to answer your first question, you will basically need an active converter stepping up your RGB signal to standard VGA, unless you can try and test and see if your display can support 15 Khtz. Thank you for the reply. So, if I'm understanding you correctly... I would need to try and find some sort of converter that is capable of stepping up the 15 Khtz RGB coming from the Genesis... to at least 30 Khtz. As far as the LM 1881 chip, I assume I would need that either way?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatPix Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 The LM chip would be included in any active converter I would like to advice you on converters but I haven't tested many. There are cheap multi-input boards "for arcade" on eBay, I gotta try them but I never seen "independant" advices on them. https://www.ebay.fr/itm/Arcade-Game-RGB-CGA-EGA-YUV-to-VGA-HD-Video-Converter-Board-HD9800-GBS8200-STHH/313328248859?hash=item48f3d1a81b:g:j7cAAOSwaIpcGydK 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlsson Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 (edited) I used to own one of those GBS boards and although I'm not a picky gamer, I found the lag to be completely unbearable. However after I got rid of it, I have read several reports from reliable gamers saying it works really well, so possibly the firmware got a major overhaul after I sold my board. Of course there are other upscalers in higher price ranges but you have to ask yourself if your old VGA screen is that good that you want to invest in equipment for it, compared to the results you could obtain from using other types of displays. Edit: Based on the above link, it seems the GBS can be made into an awesome solution if you can solder, reprogram and tweak it. Edited February 1, 2021 by carlsson 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newtmonkey Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 Here's a nice video that presents some options: It's worthwhile to look into this for playing Genesis, but the important thing is to ensure that you're using a good scaler that doesn't introduce lag. As mentioned by @carlsson above, the GBS can be made into a decent scaler but requires a lot of work. The RetroTINK 2x PRO connected to a zero-lag HDMI to VGA Converter seems like the best choice to me—no added lag, a scanline effect if you want the CRT TV look, and it doesn't cost that much . The OSSC seems like overkill just to convert from 240p to VGA, the GBS requires a lot of work to get it running decently, and other (cheaper) options you find on Amazon, etc. add lag and interpret the 240p signal incorrectly. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7800 Posted February 2, 2021 Author Share Posted February 2, 2021 37 minutes ago, newtmonkey said: The RetroTINK 2x PRO connected to a zero-lag HDMI to VGA Converter seems like the best choice to me—no added lag, a scanline effect if you want the CRT TV look, and it doesn't cost that much . I was actually considering this idea because I do use a RetroTINK for an older Sony Bravia Flatscreen with my other Genesis' and the results are amazing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newtmonkey Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 Sounds like all you need to try it out then is a no-lag HDMI to VGA converter! The video above has an Amazon link to the converter the guy used during the video. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 The older XRGB devices are perfectly viable options and look amazing on VGA monitors. Maybe not the cheapest, but in this use-case scenario they are very solid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7800 Posted February 17, 2021 Author Share Posted February 17, 2021 So, here's an update: I bought an HDRetrovision Component cable, a RetroTink, and an HDMI to VGA adapter... and hooked it all up to use the Sega Genesis on a VGA CRT monitor. It worked and the picture was perfect... but while playing, the video (not the sound) would cut out for a few seconds and come back at random times. I think I isolated the problem to being the HDMI to VGA adapter after testing my setup on a few other CRTs and even a 4:3 flat panel... determining that it wasn't the monitors causing the problem. Also checked all connections and they were good. Anyone have any ideas as to what might be causing the random video blackouts with this setup? I thought I'd see what you guys think before I purchase and alternative HDMI to VGA device. Below is the adapter I'm using... https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01B7CEOVK/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newtmonkey Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 Do you have another system you can test using the same retrotink, adapter, and monitor? It might help to narrow down the cause. How random are the video drops? Do they occur during normal gameplay, or is it when switching scenes (i.e. from gameplay to a status screen, etc.)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7800 Posted February 18, 2021 Author Share Posted February 18, 2021 2 hours ago, newtmonkey said: Do you have another system you can test using the same retrotink, adapter, and monitor? It might help to narrow down the cause. How random are the video drops? Do they occur during normal gameplay, or is it when switching scenes (i.e. from gameplay to a status screen, etc.)? Well, I guess I could hook up my Super Grafx or SMS up to it... see what happens. I was thinking maybe a mini USB powered HDMI to VGA adapter might work because it's powered... rather than the one I have now that isn't powered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newtmonkey Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 (edited) There are some Genesis/MD games that switch horizontal resolution while the game is running. For example, Castlevania Bloodlines switches between 320x224 and 256x224 when displaying non-gameplay and gameplay screens, respectively. If you have Bloodlines, you might want to give it a try and see if this is indeed what's happening. If the dropouts are occurring during gameplay (i.e. completely random), there has got to some problem somewhere along the line. Switching out the console for your SuperGrafx and SMS should help to isolate the cause. Edited February 18, 2021 by newtmonkey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7800 Posted February 20, 2021 Author Share Posted February 20, 2021 So, I ordered a powered HDMI to VGA adapter... hooked it into my setup... and played a handful of games at length... and everything seems to be working fine. No video dropout. Thanks to everyone for your input. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newtmonkey Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 Upload some screenshots if you get a chance, I'd like to see how it looks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juansolo Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 On 2/1/2021 at 5:41 PM, carlsson said: I used to own one of those GBS boards and although I'm not a picky gamer, I found the lag to be completely unbearable. However after I got rid of it, I have read several reports from reliable gamers saying it works really well, so possibly the firmware got a major overhaul after I sold my board. Of course there are other upscalers in higher price ranges but you have to ask yourself if your old VGA screen is that good that you want to invest in equipment for it, compared to the results you could obtain from using other types of displays. Edit: Based on the above link, it seems the GBS can be made into an awesome solution if you can solder, reprogram and tweak it. Yep I've built a GBS Control and am currently taking the component out from an OG Xbox and outputting it as VGA to a CRT monitor. But it can also take RGB and the results are shockingly good. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+-^CrossBow^- Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 I should have commented on this earlier but didn't really see it until now. I use my Extron 7SC to do exactly what you are wanting to do. Take RGB, RGBVS, Component, s-video, and composite and everything is converted to a VGA output signal I can use on pretty much anything and set the output resolution size to several options it has available. It is a big device as it was designed for commercial AV setups for rack mounting but it is the main AV selector for all of my retro consoles in my setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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