BASIC 10 Liner Contest 2021

[carlsson]

Hm, maybe I should troubleshoot my XE light gun for next year and submit a light gun game. It most definitely will be difficult to play in emulation, or even on a LCD screen.

[dmsc]

Hi!

7 hours ago, carlsson said:

Hm, maybe I should troubleshoot my XE light gun for next year and submit a light gun game. It most definitely will be difficult to play in emulation, or even on a LCD screen.

Well, there are (expensive) alternatives: https://www.sindenlightgun.com/videos/

 

Have Fun!

[OxC0FFEE]

Is basic fast enough to read the light gun accurately?

[vitoco]

11 minutes ago, OxC0FFEE said:

Is basic fast enough to read the light gun accurately?

Light guns (light pens) are read by the OS in the Ataris. BASIC just read the "coordinates" that were computed at the trigger signal. Those coordinates are not related to the current graphics mode, but they can be mapped after some calibration.

 

[OxC0FFEE]

Neat! I didn’t know that! I’ll have to dig out my old XE light gun and experiment. I see that there was a snippet on using light guns/light pens in basic in Analog.

 

 

[Mr SQL]

On 4/8/2021 at 2:37 AM, carlsson said:

Hm, are you indicating that your BASIC games are so technically advanced that not even the latest crop of emulators properly run them, or are those simply tuned for CRT artifacts that normally don't show up if the emulator is set to perfect crisp pixels?

In some ways that is true with SuperBlitz because it was created with SuperCharger Disk BASIC. Depending on the graphics modes used a real CRT and the nonstandard video signal output are programmable in ways where the emulation fall short as they cannot emulate classic Television yet. 

 

The inverse is also true however where the most popular emulator has become too technically advanced; older emu's like Z26 renders the games better by default when in full screen mode than the popular Stella emu in part because of new Television emulation technology.

 

To enjoy SuperBlitz in Stella like Z26, the default merge frame features including phosphor blending must be deactivated, these features blur the screen in SuperBlitz and degrade the illusion effects presented.

 

It may be easier to use a different emu than to find and fiddle with changing default settings in the Stella subsystem menus.

 

[vitoco]

Games designed for "special" controllers like paddles, light guns and even joysticks can loose some playablility if those are replaced by keyboards, mice and gamepads. The experience is not the same... Those "special" controllers were standard back in the days, an those allow you to do "physical" things that might be hard to replicate with current hardware in emulators, especially where reflex acts are important. It is not the same to use a numpad than a joystick for 8-way movements in coordination with the trigger button. It is not the same to rotate a wheel than to move the wrist over a mouse. The game and the game concept are designed in a way to be attractive, interesting, joyful and, over all, playable. Change the interface and the result could be half of the experience. Kaboom! does not feel the same when played with a joystick, a mouse or the keyboard instead of a paddle, and you probably won't score as much as in the original; I didn't.

 

1 hour ago, Mr SQL said:

It may be easier to use a different emu than to find and fiddle with changing default settings in the Stella subsystem menus.

For the contest, you must provide the instructions to successfully run the game as it was intended, including the preferred emulator when the real machine is not available. But with 146 different sets of instructions is nearly impossible to get them all, and some common configs are being used by the whole group of games for the same platform.

 

This contest started for Atari computers, and I've always made the asumption that the game would be played on real PAL Ataris. This is not true these days, as judges are from different countries worldwide, with different backgrounds and systems preferences, so emulation became the way to go for at least 90% of the systems for any judge. NTSC might be the default option and it could "break" the game timmings and the color palette. A8 developers would like Altirra to be the selected emulation software, but it is restricted to Windows machines and there are others outside, like the MiSTer, online webpages or some derivatives from MAME. Writing the game requirements in the game docs does not mean that it would be evaluated in that way.

Anyway, I'd like to know what happens with the score of an entry that it couldn't be tested by some or all of the judges. I know that being a judge is a very difficult position, so I guess they have some criteria for such events. Well, they cannot be blamed if something goes wrong while trying to do their best. We are here to have fun!!!

 

[Mr SQL]

1 hour ago, vitoco said:

Games designed for "special" controllers like paddles, light guns and even joysticks can loose some playablility if those are replaced by keyboards, mice and gamepads. The experience is not the same... Those "special" controllers were standard back in the days, an those allow you to do "physical" things that might be hard to replicate with current hardware in emulators, especially where reflex acts are important. It is not the same to use a numpad than a joystick for 8-way movements in coordination with the trigger button. It is not the same to rotate a wheel than to move the wrist over a mouse. The game and the game concept are designed in a way to be attractive, interesting, joyful and, over all, playable. Change the interface and the result could be half of the experience. Kaboom! does not feel the same when played with a joystick, a mouse or the keyboard instead of a paddle, and you probably won't score as much as in the original; I didn't.

 

For the contest, you must provide the instructions to successfully run the game as it was intended, including the preferred emulator when the real machine is not available. But with 146 different sets of instructions is nearly impossible to get them all, and some common configs are being used by the whole group of games for the same platform.

 

This contest started for Atari computers, and I've always made the asumption that the game would be played on real PAL Ataris. This is not true these days, as judges are from different countries worldwide, with different backgrounds and systems preferences, so emulation became the way to go for at least 90% of the systems for any judge. NTSC might be the default option and it could "break" the game timmings and the color palette. A8 developers would like Altirra to be the selected emulation software, but it is restricted to Windows machines and there are others outside, like the MiSTer, online webpages or some derivatives from MAME. Writing the game requirements in the game docs does not mean that it would be evaluated in that way.

Anyway, I'd like to know what happens with the score of an entry that it couldn't be tested by some or all of the judges. I know that being a judge is a very difficult position, so I guess they have some criteria for such events. Well, they cannot be blamed if something goes wrong while trying to do their best. We are here to have fun!!!

 

X2 the games are tremendous fun magnified by the fact they are written in 10 lines of BASIC across so many different systems! 

I think the emu's all work pretty well and the controls are "close enough" with the exception of the light-gun hardware.

 

MiSTer is inspiring for pretty much being the real hardware recreated in a gate array.

Altirra is inspiring for including details like artifact color emulation, would be cool to see that ported to other emulators too.

 

[AMSDOS]

I think it could go either way, I had some guy tell me my 10-Liner games sucked when they played my games with Joystick, though one of my 10-Liner games got a Low score because I made it Keyboard instead of Joystick, it was the same game which I initially made too difficult according to Bunsen, so I made it easier and it was still too difficult. ?

The entry I made this year changes the Input, so you press an arrow key, the character moves once, if you hold the key down, the character may start moving a bit, though in the past with Joystick or Keyboard read outs, things Moved too fast.

[erichenneke]

4 minutes ago, AMSDOS said:

I think it could go either way, I had some guy tell me my 10-Liner games sucked when they played my games with Joystick, though one of my 10-Liner games got a Low score because I made it Keyboard instead of Joystick, it was the same game which I initially made too difficult according to Bunsen, so I made it easier and it was still too difficult. ?

The entry I made this year changes the Input, so you press an arrow key, the character moves once, if you hold the key down, the character may start moving a bit, though in the past with Joystick or Keyboard read outs, things Moved too fast.

Yeah, i constantly get feedback that my 10 liner games are either too easy or too hard.  But the funny (and frustrating) thing is that often it's the very same version of the same game!  So it shows you can't please everyone.   In the end, I make a game that I find myself wanting to play over and over to try to beat my best, and that doesn't rely solely on luck to do it (it should take some acquired eye/hand coordination skills gained from practicing and replaying the game several times, or some element of strategy, or both) to achieve that.   If i get to that point with a 10 liner game then I feel I have achieved what I set out to do.  But it will still have some people saying it is too easy and some saying it is too hard.  It never fails. 

 

 

[erichenneke]

6 hours ago, vitoco said:

Anyway, I'd like to know what happens with the score of an entry that it couldn't be tested by some or all of the judges. I know that being a judge is a very difficult position, so I guess they have some criteria for such events. Well, they cannot be blamed if something goes wrong while trying to do their best. We are here to have fun!!!

 

Yep, that's the most important thing to keep in perspective.  

 

One thing that would be great is if there could be a group of judges that focus on a single system platform (such as Atari A8, etc.) which they are familiar with, and which is their retro system of choice.  That would really give each entry a more thorough and appropriate work-out, and it would be more appreciated and scrutinized within the strengths and weaknesses of each system platform.  

 

With 146 entries across 25+ system platforms, that would still require a LOT of judges and require a lot of coordination to get everything tested!!  Still, it would seem feasible if each judge focused on only a few system platforms that they could fully run appropriately (preferably on real hardware) and have a good understanding of the nuances of those few systems. 

 

Heck, if I were a judge I would not know where to even begin for 90% of the systems on that list!!  Really, I would make a TERRIBLE judge for anything other than Atari to be honest!!

 

[Bunsen]

Thank you for all your valuable thoughts, guys.

Some things you could find interesting: The judges come from all over the world, one from Canada, one from USA, one from Australia and 5 from Germany (interestingly 4 from the ABBUC board and me). We play as much games as possible on real hardware. Therefore 4 of the german judges met in reality (obscure in corona times?!) and playtested nine hours in a row on real hardware (Atari, Spectrum, C64, C128) and some more on emulator. We discussed every game we tested and took a look at the documents. Myself read ALL documents and played all games intensely. 3 other judges played also all games and rated them. But for every entry we calculate an average rating. So it isn't that important that every judge rates everything.

But it is right. The contest is reaching its limits. It is likely that it will not be possible to honor every program the way it deserves. We are thinking about your suggestions.

 

Currently we are presenting results on twitter... @Basic10L . At the end of the day the results will be presented also on the homepage basic10liner.com .

 

[vitoco]

Winners in PUR 80 category, out of 66 entries were:

 

1st place: Moon Landing, for Oric Atmos (8.38 points)

2nd place: A Day In The Life Of A Teleporter, for Commodore 64 (8.30 points)

3rd place: Chuck's Challenge, for Commodore 64 (8.16 points)

 

Atari XL/XE results:

 

6th place: Purge @erichenneke (7.67 points)

8th place: Hubert @vitoco (7.33 points)

19th place: The Matrix: Red Pill @vitoco (6.67 points)

 

Not too far (in points)...

 

[Preppie]

PUR-120

 

1. Noxious: Atari 800 XL by vitoco
2. Mines +: Tandy TRS-80 MC10
3. Be Quick or be Dead: Tandy TRS-80 M100

 

Gratz on another first place Vic

 

Edited April 10, 2021 by Preppie

[erichenneke]

28 minutes ago, Preppie said:

PUR-120

 

1. Noxious: Atari 800 XL by vitoco
2. Mines +: Tandy TRS-80 MC10
3. Be Quick or be Dead: Tandy TRS-80 M100

 

Gratz on another first place Vic

 

Way to go Victor, and way to go Atari !   

[Preppie]

Extreme-256

 

The Children: Atari 800 XL by Vitoco 
Patrol: Atari 800 XL by Vitoco 
10 Lines Hero: MSX 2

 

 

The master does it again, huge gratz (I called the winner )

[Preppie]

Thanks to Gunnar and all the judges for another fun event.  Gratz to all the entries, hopefully we all had fun and learned a little too.

[erichenneke]

6 minutes ago, Preppie said:

Extreme-256

 

The Children: Atari 800 XL by Vitoco 
Patrol: Atari 800 XL by Vitoco 
10 Lines Hero: MSX 2

 

 

The master does it again, huge gratz (I called the winner )

 

   YES!!!  

 

[dmsc]

Hi!

29 minutes ago, Preppie said:

Extreme-256

The Children: Atari 800 XL by Vitoco 
Patrol: Atari 800 XL by Vitoco 
10 Lines Hero: MSX 2

Congratulations to @vitoco!!

 

Played 10 lines hero to the end, very good game in ten lines:

 

Also payed Rockfall, very good!!, but level 3 is already too difficult for me!

 

Again, congratulations to all participants, it is great to see so many entries  

 

Have Fun!

[vitoco]

1 hour ago, Preppie said:

PUR-120

 

1. Noxious: Atari 800 XL by vitoco
2. Mines +: Tandy TRS-80 MC10
3. Be Quick or be Dead: Tandy TRS-80 M100

 

Gratz on another first place Vic

 

Paddle rulez!!!! 

 

Light gun... here we gooooo!!!!

 

 PUR-120                         
 1. Noxious    /Atari       /8.67
 2. Mines+ MC10 /Tandy MC10 /8.17
 3. Be Quick or be Dead/M100/8.07
 4. Matrix:Red or Blue/Atari/7.10
 5. Superblitz /VCS         /6.83
 6. Jump       /Atari       /6.70
    Sokoban 120 /BBC        /6.70
 8. Crasher    /Atari       /6.67
 9. Silo       /VIC20       /6.65
10. Pelmanism  /BBC         /6.55
11. Nanorogue  /Atari       /6.17
12. E.T.       /SAM Coupé   /6.00
13. Crafty Bear /MSX2       /5.67
14. Evolution 10 /C64       /5.50
15. Floh       /Atari       /5.33
16. Spread, Reproduce /C16  /5.30
17. The Horde II /C128      /5.17
18. Bazooka    /MC10        /5.00
    Pong Noid  /C16         /5.00
20. Space!     /Spectrum    /4.80
21. Mas10 Mind /C64         /4.73
22. Archery    /C64         /3.90
23. Snake      /Amstrad     /3.83
    Acey Ducey /MC10        /3.83
25. Mini Conan II /C128     /2.83
26. High or Low /Amstrad    /2.77

Atarians did it very good in this PUR-120 category: 1, 4, 5, 6, 8, 11 and 15 out of 26 entries

 

Congrats @Mr SQL!!!

 

[+Philsan]

Can't wait to have @vitoco's cool NOMAM 2021 disk with all A8 programs.

[vitoco]

1 hour ago, Preppie said:

The master does it again, huge gratz (I called the winner )

1 hour ago, erichenneke said:

YES!!!

48 minutes ago, dmsc said:

Congratulations to @vitoco!!

Thank you, guys...

 

The results for the EXTREM-256 category was really a mistery to me. There was a lot of very good games this year. Just see the scores:

 EXTREM-256                     
 1. The Children /Atari   /10.17
 2. Patrol       /Atari   /10.00
 3. 10 Lines Hero /MSX2   /9.20 
 4. Freeway      /MSX2    /9.17 
    ORIGM        /MSX2    /9.17 
 6. Rockfall     /Atari   /9.00 
 7. Freefall     /MSX     /7.75 
 8. Archer 10    /MSX     /7.65 
 9. Golf on Mt Fuji/Atari /7.33 
10. The Nurse    /MSX2    /7.30 
11. Archer 10    /Apple II/7.17 
12. Volleyring   /MSX     /6.55 
13. Pinball      /MSX     /6.45 
14. Brain Breaking /MSX2  /6.33 
15. AstroInvaders /Atari  /6.27 
16. Virus        /MSX     /6.25 
    Astronaut Kerl/Spectr./6.25 
18. Explorer     /MC10    /6.00 
19. Slap Shot    /MC10    /5.83 
20. Star Pads    /C64     /5.80 
21. iPonG        /C16     /5.70 
22. Troubled River /MSX2  /5.63 
23. BeastBAS     /MSX2    /5.50 
24. Traficante   /Spectrum/5.20 
25. Alien Mines  /Amstrad /5.00 
26. Who killed the Cou/MSX/4.95 
27. Connect 4    /MSX     /4.50 
    Pick a Path  /Amstrad /4.50 
29. SpcWar       /MC10    /3.50 

MSX turns out to be a very interesting platform for this category....

 

1 hour ago, Preppie said:

Thanks to Gunnar and all the judges for another fun event.  Gratz to all the entries, hopefully we all had fun and learned a little too.

@Bunsen did an excellent work publishing each of the entries, both in his official site and in bunsen.itch.io. Thanks Gunnar!!!

 

I want to thank @dmsc for his contribution to this contest: FastBasic.  All three Atari games in the podium were written in his great language, and Rockfall by @Preppie also got an excellent score.

 

16 minutes ago, Philsan said:

Can't wait to have @vitoco's cool NOMAM 2021 disk with all A8 games.

The official ATR is available through my website. Thanks @Bunsen and @skr!!!

 

 

[AMSDOS]

11 hours ago, Bunsen said:

But it is right. The contest is reaching its limits. It is likely that it will not be possible to honor every program the way it deserves. We are thinking about your suggestions.

 

By keeping it to all Factory Built-in BASIC variants only? ?

Edited April 10, 2021 by AMSDOS

[carlsson]

Regarding the choice of category for each platform, a lot of that depends on what the editor allows in terms of line length. On e.g. all Commodore 8-bits, the logical line length can be up to 255 bytes but the editor usually only accepts 80-88 keystrokes depending on the machine. For the PUR-120 and EXTREM-256 categories, it would be possible to load a small 3rd party wedge that extends the editor to accepting up to 255 keystrokes, just like you can write your program in a 3rd party BASIC language.

 

I took the preliminary stats that @vitoco posted before and broke down in percentages to even better illustrate this:

 

Platform                        PUR-80  PUR-120  EXTREM-256  SCHAU  WILD

Acorn Electron / BBC Micro        72%     28%
Amstrad CPC                               40%       40%       20%
Apple II                          14%               14%              72%
Atari 2600                               100%
Atari 8-bit                       19%     38%       31%        6%     6%

Commodore PET                    100%
Comomdore VIC-20                  75%     25%
Commodore 64                      68%     10%        3%       19%
Commodore 16 / Plus/4             67%     22%       11%
Commodore 128                            100%

Mattel Aquarius                   75%                         25%
MSX 1                                               78%       22%
MSX 2/2+                          11%     11%       78%
Ohio Scientific Challenger 1P    100%
Oric Atmos                       100%

SAM Coupé                         50%     50%
Sharp MZ-80K/MZ-80A              100%
Sinclair ZX-81                    50%                         50%
Sinclair ZX Spectrum              44%      6%       12%       19%    19%

Tandy TRS-80 Model 100                   100%
Tandy TRS-80 MC-10                14%     43%       43%
Videoton TV Computer             100%

 

As you can see, while the Commodores, Acorns and Oric have between 2/3 and 100% of the entries in the PUR-80 category, the Atari 8-bit and even more strikingly the MSX utilize the bigger capacity on line length, meaning only between 10-20% of their entries are in the lowest category. Perhaps it isn't so strange if the competition thus was harder here, since more people aim for it.

[Fierodoug5]

Wow Vitoco, "The Children" is amazing! Great Job. Looking forward to trying all the other Atari entries in the morning