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vhzc

Slide (working title) new wip game for 2600

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8 hours ago, vhzc said:

- This game is a hard, but it's fair. Recover one life per screen would make it too easy for my standards so is not an option.

A game that frustrates the player makes him quit it. At least that's how I feel...

 

Reaching the end should not be the only prize. Imagine "I run" without checkpoints. Checkpoints are intermediate rewards.

 

At least, the player might recover a life after each cleaned screen without retries. If (s)he fails in one screen, no rewards after succeeding it. And (de)activate this rewards using one difficulty switch.

 

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1 minute ago, vitoco said:

A game that frustrates the player makes him quit it. At least that's how I feel...

 

Reaching the end should not be the only prize. Imagine "I run" without checkpoints. Checkpoints are intermediate rewards.

 

At least, the player might recover a life after each cleaned screen without retries. If (s)he fails in one screen, no rewards after succeeding it. And (de)activate this rewards using one difficulty switch.

 

 

I understand your point and I possibly will add some extra lives here and there as I usually do in my games, but a game that rewards you for simply clear a screen is not the game I want to develop and also is not  the type of games that people that plays my games expects from me. I have a reputation to maintain 😛

 

 

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3 hours ago, vitoco said:

A game that frustrates the player makes him quit it. At least that's how I feel...

The problem is the frustration level. What is a challenge for one is already frustration for someone else. IMO the games used to be more challenging back then, providing more long term fun. Today many people want to play through a game without too much hassle. It's almost like completing a to-do list.

 

3 hours ago, vitoco said:

Reaching the end should not be the only prize. Imagine "I run" without checkpoints. Checkpoints are intermediate rewards.

The score is the prize. The higher the better you are. And if you want to see more levels, you have to get better at the game. 

 

3 hours ago, vitoco said:

At least, the player might recover a life after each cleaned screen without retries. If (s)he fails in one screen, no rewards after succeeding it. And (de)activate this rewards using one difficulty switch.

I am for extra lives, but not as generous as you request them. Maybe every 100, 200 points or so. Or every 5-10 levels.

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Some suggestion for the game:

  • the game should stop at the begin of a level/new life (especially for new levels this would be very helpful)
  • the timer should become more granular (using the ball)
  • and the player should be alerted when the timer is running low 
  • some bonus items which are optional would make the game easier for casual players and harder for people going for top scores
  • a bonus screen every n-levels (e.g. collect as many bonus items as you can until the (short) timer runs out
  • ideas for additional game elements: teleports, chasing enemies, one-time-walls, bombs (for destroying walls)... 

 

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2 minutes ago, Thomas Jentzsch said:

Some suggestion for the game:

  • the game should stop at the begin of a level/new life (especially for new levels this would be very helpful)
  • the timer should become more granular (using the ball)
  • and the player should be alerted when the timer is running low 
  • some bonus items which are optional would make the game easier for casual players and harder for people going for top scores
  • a bonus screen every n-levels (e.g. collect as many bonus items as you can until the (short) timer runs out
  • ideas for additional game elements: teleports, chasing enemies, one-time-walls, bombs (for destroying walls)... 

 

Thanks for the suggestions.

- At the start of every level the timer don't start to run until the player reachs it height. I suppose I could make it take longer.

- The ball is used for the switches.

- Yeah, that is easy to implement and adds to the UX, so I think I will add it :)

- Teleports and one time walls are in fact present in some levels and I always add some secret/bonus screen :)

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  • I would start the timer when the player starts moving. 
  • I suppose you cannot reposition the ball?
  • I missed teleports and secret/bonus screens. Looks like I have to pay more attention. :) 

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5 minutes ago, Thomas Jentzsch said:
  • I would start the timer when the player starts moving.

I prefer to give limited time to figure out the maze. That is why the screen is blackened when paused.

 

Edited by vhzc
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Just gave the game a try and I really enjoyed it!

 

Extra lives every x amount of points would be a cool addition (as discussed above). Level 5 (I think that's the one. It's the one with the two bouncing balls with the large gap) is a tough one for me. I either make it through and get a decent way into the game after I clear it or it sucks all my lives away and I get game over.

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1 hour ago, vhzc said:

- At the start of every level the timer don't start to run until the player reachs it height.

Reaches what height?

 

My suggestion: Make the level number more prominent. Show it on the Game Over screen at least, and maybe the Pause screen and the Level Complete screen. Or between levels, show the next level number (a la Super Mario Bros.) instead of "Complete."

 

Anyway, another excellent game. My high score so far is 750.

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9 minutes ago, Pat Brady said:

Reaches what height?

Playerheight. The sprite starts with playerheight 0 and increased to playerheight 8

 

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Reusing the ball for a finer grained timer would require either a customization of the score routine, or a custom minikernel. I would be happy to contribute to either one if there was an interest.

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1 hour ago, vhzc said:

I prefer to give limited time to figure out the maze. That is why the screen is blackened when paused.

Valid design decisions. Though emulator players will have an advantage now.

Edited by Thomas Jentzsch

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1 hour ago, Thomas Jentzsch said:

Valid design decisions. Though emulator players will have an advantage now.

Easy level slows down the timer if I understood right. So that would be the mode to use to memorize how to navigate each screen and then go to norm level there after for a faster timer.

 

 

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On 2/5/2021 at 11:53 AM, vhzc said:

UPDATE

- More screens (33 in current version)

- Select switch return to Select screen

- Extra life every 160 points in easy mode and 320 in normal mode (max lives=4)

- Secret room :)

- Cosmetic changes.

 

slideboy_wip_20210212.bin <-- CURRENT VERSION

 

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Awesome! That one new screen I mentioned in discord kicked my butt the first time I encountered it but I've got the pattern for it down. Now to try and improve the times.

 

I did find the secret room and asked you a message about it in discord PM so as to no spoil anything here.

 

 

slideboy_wip_20210212.png

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On 2/10/2021 at 4:47 AM, vhzc said:

 

I understand your point and I possibly will add some extra lives here and there as I usually do in my games, but a game that rewards you for simply clear a screen is not the game I want to develop and also is not  the type of games that people that plays my games expects from me. I have a reputation to maintain 😛

 

 

I wonder if this is a matter of how old a gamer is, and what games they grew up with. The term “Nintendo-Hard” entered the nomenclature within the last 5-10 years, to mean the game is designed to be difficult. Nintendo is probably used, because games from the Nintendo generation were popular and there was a change in the focus of a game to get to and ending rather than a High Score (a remnant from the Arcade)

 

It certainly is a design decision that requires some thought, depending upon the market you are trying to reach.

 

Do you make a game with limited lives and no continues? (eg. Dragonfire. These games are well designed for HSC, and reward playing it safe)

 

Do you make a game with additional lives earned by score? (eg. Asteroids. These games can be exploited by players to rack up infinite lives)

 

Do you make a game with infinite retries? (This ensures that with dedication, more players will see all of the game that you designed)


Back when I was a kid, it seemed like I had tons of time to play games. We might tolerate too difficult of a learning curve, because we didn’t have many other games to play. We did feel a large sense of accomplishment when we beat those difficult games though, because there was a limited amount of people who were able to. This was the design philosophy of the team that made Ninja Gaiden for Xbox (Org), they wanted to keep the difficulty high so gamers who completed it felt a sense of accomplishment.

 

When a game is too hard though, many people don’t see all the awesomeness that programmers went to the trouble to create. (I think some Steam survey found that most people played way less than 50% (don’t remember the details), and of the games people had played similarly more than half the people never completed them. (This isn’t too surprising due to the Holiday Sales and the abundance of entertainment)

 

I personally think the 2nd concern (too hard) isn’t much of an issue today due the availability of emulators and save states. If someone truely wants to see all of a game, emulators are the answer (and if just the visuals not the gameplay, YouTube/Twitch)

 

 

Edited by CapitanClassic
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2 hours ago, CapitanClassic said:

I wonder if this is a matter of how old a gamer is, and what games they grew up with. The term “Nintendo-Hard” entered the nomenclature within the last 5-10 years, to mean the game is designed to be difficult. Nintendo is probably used, because games from the Nintendo generation were popular and there was a change in the focus of a game to get to and ending rather than a High Score (a remnant from the Arcade)

 

It certainly is a design decision that requires some thought, depending upon the market you are trying to reach.

 

Do you make a game with limited lives and no continues? (eg. Dragonfire. These games are well designed for HSC, and reward playing it safe)

 

Do you make a game with additional lives earned by score? (eg. Asteroids. These games can be exploited by players to rack up infinite lives)

 

Do you make a game with infinite retries? (This ensures that with dedication, more players will see all of the game that you designed)


Back when I was a kid, it seemed like I had tons of time to play games. We might tolerate too difficult of a learning curve, because we didn’t have many other games to play. We did feel a large sense of accomplishment when we beat those difficult games though, because there was a limited amount of people who were able to. This was the design philosophy of the team that made Ninja Gaiden for Xbox (Org), they wanted to keep the difficulty high so gamers who completed it felt a sense of accomplishment.

 

When a game is too hard though, many people don’t see all the awesomeness that programmers went to the trouble to create. (I think some Steam survey found that most people played way less than 50% (don’t remember the details), and of the games people had played similarly more than half the people never completed them. (This isn’t too surprising due to the Holiday Sales and the abundance of entertainment)

 

I personally think the 2nd concern (too hard) is much of an issue today due the availability of emulators and save states. If someone truely wants to see all of a game, emulators are the answer (and if just the visuals not the gameplay, YouTube/Twitch)

 

 

 

The design process for this game (and for almost all my games) is kinda simple: I want to create games hard, but fair and that rewards the player if he/she master it.

 

I am not a fan of games where you have level after level almost identical with just some increment of speed and/or difficulty. But to add variety I have to use more space to program them, which limit the number of levels, rooms or whatever. Making the game not too easy make that takes more time completing it, so you are giving the player a challenge and more play time. A win win 😛

Also having limited time and lives give extra rewards and, with these, replayability. You don't have only the challenge to complete the game, but to complete it with more lives left or with a better time.

 

But what finally determine the final design is the type of games that I like to play, because there is not much in risk if I don't reach a huge number of players so I always will choose to make the type I games that gave me more satisfaction, after all this is not a job, but a hobby.

 

Edited by vhzc
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11 minutes ago, Octavio Pinho Bokel said:

Really interesting game. Are you using any enhancement chip besides the 32 bytes bankswitch? Looks really great.

Hi.

Thanks for your comment!  and it is just regular 32k rom and bB standard kernel.

 

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Not sure I can find any ways to get any faster than this. Really enjoying this one!

 

slideboy_wip_20210212_1.png

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19 hours ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

Not sure I can find any ways to get any faster than this. Really enjoying this one!

 

slideboy_wip_20210212_1.png

That score is insane!

I am preparing the next wip rom that will includes 40 rooms.

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On 2/5/2021 at 11:53 AM, vhzc said:

UPDATE (probably last before Release Candidate)

- More screens (40 in current version)

- PF numbers to show room between levels.

- Cosmetic changes.

 

slideboy_wip_20210215.bin<-- CURRENT VERSION

 

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