Atari 130XE Remake

[santosp]

Also this version is a "naked" pcb who anyone could to add ic sockets. So Ultimate add on could be possible. 

I am agreed for some ready points for the  scattered signals which it need.

[foft]

Will it be possible to have enough space round 40 pin ic sockets to fit zif sockets like these?

 

https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/aries-electronics/40-526-10/20463

[+Larry]

Have not seen that type before.  Just curious -- what benefit would these offer over conventional precision sockets?  (I'm assuming that users would not be swapping 40 pin IC's frequently.) But the only downside that I see is that they are pricey. 

[foft]

Not for general users, just for hardware people who need to swap things.

[santosp]

Hi Larry,

Mark means that these are mainly for hardware developers, due to the holes included in the side, so that one can easily control the various signals using special pin cables.

 

Indeed these are very pricey!!!

 

Except PIA, for everything else the passive parts will have to be transported a bit during the design.

[nikolaisen]

17 hours ago, BillC said:

An external parallel port version of U1MB is in development!

Works with 16KB 600XL(has external 64KB RAM upgrade) and also adds memory card slot for storage.

 

Yeah that's an option. I totally missed post by xangel, his design looks like he's already planning for that internal U1MB and a few other upgrades. 

[Doug_in_NC]

22 hours ago, Larry said:

Have not seen that type before.  Just curious -- what benefit would these offer over conventional precision sockets?  (I'm assuming that users would not be swapping 40 pin IC's frequently.) But the only downside that I see is that they are pricey. 

If you ever watch the Adrian's Digital Basement retro computer restoration YouTube channel, you would see he built what he calls a Commodore ZIFty Four by putting ZIF sockets in a machine that he uses for checking main chips (not glue logic or RAM) from faulty C64s. Anyone doing repairs on a regular basis would find an Atari board with space for Ziff sockets very useful. I can't see it being useful for many people, but leaving a little extra space around the main chips is one of those things that's good idea for those that need it and doesn't hurt anyone else.

[+ZuluGula]

Would it be possible to have optional second cartridge port on top of the case, similarly like in XL computers?

[BillC]

5 hours ago, Doug_in_NC said:

I can't see it being useful for many people, but leaving a little extra space around the main chips is one of those things that's good idea for those that need it and doesn't hurt anyone else.

A small component near the socket could also be relocated to the underside of the board to fix interference issues, at least for thru-hole devices.

[Lynxpro]

On 2/7/2021 at 12:49 PM, Mathy said:

Hello guys

 

That's why I want pick up point (through holes) for the chip select signals.  That way, you can choose between piggybacking the second Pokey, using a Dual Pokey Board or installing a PokeyMax.

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy

 

Keep provisions for Dual POKEY, that way someone crazy enough might try installing 2 PokeyMaxes. 32 POKEY voices, Quad SID, Quad PSG [AY/YM2149], Dual Covox. 2 FPGAs to rule them all. Throw in the ability to do Votrax speech synthesis with each and you've also not only gone beyond the 1400XL and 1450XLD speech synthesis capabilities but also equaled the expensive Dual Mockingboard configuration for the Apple II. 

 

Go beyond 1MB. You've got 8MB available in upgrades for the Apple II and the Commode fans have crammed 16MB into their REU carts. Granted, they haven't done any upgraded RAM or added any reset buttons to their deluxe C64 Reloaded motherboards. And they certainly did not add 4 joystick ports since their new production run of C64c cases don't feature extra joystick port provisions. 

 

The ROM code for the 800D is available in some places if one wanted to throw in serial support through the use of an MC6850 or a 6551, or 2. Of course, there are more modern solutions available if one wishes not to go with quasi-period authentic solutions.

 

And what about an XEGS Keyboard Port and/or a PS/2 Port for external keyboards? 

[Lynxpro]

17 hours ago, Doug_in_NC said:

If you ever watch the Adrian's Digital Basement retro computer restoration YouTube channel, you would see he built what he calls a Commodore ZIFty Four by putting ZIF sockets in a machine that he uses for checking main chips (not glue logic or RAM) from faulty C64s. Anyone doing repairs on a regular basis would find an Atari board with space for Ziff sockets very useful. I can't see it being useful for many people, but leaving a little extra space around the main chips is one of those things that's good idea for those that need it and doesn't hurt anyone else.

 

Do not encourage the folks here to do 8-bit Dance Party.

[BillC]

3 hours ago, Lynxpro said:

Go beyond 1MB. You've got 8MB available in upgrades for the Apple II and the Commode fans have crammed 16MB into their REU carts.

I have a Newell 1MB upgrade in one of my 800XLs, purchased mail order from Newell in the early 90's. This upgrade is even capable of 4MB using 4M x 1bit DRAM chips. That's what was available back then for the Atari 8-bits.

https://archive.org/details/atari_Newell_RD_1to4MB

 

Now that we have high-speed parallel storage devices the need for that amount of extended RAM to use as RAMdisk isn't as important. Back then I had a 40MB MFM/SCSI drive attached to an MIO, which was a lot of storage at the time. Now I have multiple GB on an IDE+2.0 via PBI, or on a SIDE cartridge, even my Sdrive Nuxx is capable of 2GB storage(can only access 4 x 16MB ATR at any one time) via the SIO bus. There are also the SIO2PC devices which give access to emulated drives on a PC.

 

With updated firmware my 30+ year old MIO is supposed to be compatible with more recent SCSI drives, Seagate drives as large as 73GB were reported to be tested successfully with the new firmware.

 

[Lynxpro]

12 hours ago, BillC said:

I have a Newell 1MB upgrade in one of my 800XLs, purchased mail order from Newell in the early 90's. This upgrade is even capable of 4MB using 4M x 1bit DRAM chips. That's what was available back then for the Atari 8-bits.

https://archive.org/details/atari_Newell_RD_1to4MB

 

Now that we have high-speed parallel storage devices the need for that amount of extended RAM to use as RAMdisk isn't as important. Back then I had a 40MB MFM/SCSI drive attached to an MIO, which was a lot of storage at the time. Now I have multiple GB on an IDE+2.0 via PBI, or on a SIDE cartridge, even my Sdrive Nuxx is capable of 2GB storage(can only access 4 x 16MB ATR at any one time) via the SIO bus. There are also the SIO2PC devices which give access to emulated drives on a PC.

 

With updated firmware my 30+ year old MIO is supposed to be compatible with more recent SCSI drives, Seagate drives as large as 73GB were reported to be tested successfully with the new firmware.

 

 

That's fantastic but I think extra RAM would be beneficial for future games, demos, and who knows what else. The fact that Apple II folks are using 8MB for AppleWorks - AppleWorks! Why??? - in the generally inferior Apple II is galling. And those 16MB REU expansion cartridges for the C64 is for more than just running the Bad Apple demo more efficiently. It should be noted that that's not with using a 65816 but their bone stock MOS/CSG "6510" CPUs. Nor are those 8MB Apple II RAM expanders [they are for the Apple II, not the IIgs which did have 8MB expansion back in 1987, pricey as frak it was]...

 

I used the air quotes there because the MOS/CSG 6510 isn't the same as the apparently failed Synertek/Atari 6510 of 1979 which was a 6502 with 16-bit extended instructions which may or may not have been used 5 years later in WDC's 65816.

[+Stephen]

I dunno man - I'm getting a vibe here from some really prominent folks, that the only Ataris we should be supporting are 16kB CTIA machines.  We don't want to use hi speed SIO loaders, we don't need PBI in the OS, we shouldn't fix an unbroken membrane keyboard.  Don't need extra RAM - hey let's go back to the original 4kB and 8kB designations for the machines.  Can't consider stereo pokey, that wasn't in the plans.  Display options should definitely be limited to stock RF.

[BillC]

1 hour ago, Lynxpro said:

That's fantastic but I think extra RAM would be beneficial for future games, demos, and who knows what else.

There are 512KB static RAM only upgrades available, and also the very popular U1MB which combines 1MB static RAM with other features.

 

There is even a diagnostic device, the SYSCHECK 2.2, which plugs into the XL PBI or XE ECI/CART port and also offers a 512KB static RAM upgrade without even opening the machine.

 

 

[TheNameOfTheGame]

17 minutes ago, Stephen said:

I dunno man - I'm getting a vibe here from some really prominent folks, that the only Ataris we should be supporting are 16kB CTIA machines.  We don't want to use hi speed SIO loaders, we don't need PBI in the OS, we shouldn't fix an unbroken membrane keyboard.  Don't need extra RAM - hey let's go back to the original 4kB and 8kB designations for the machines.  Can't consider stereo pokey, that wasn't in the plans.  Display options should definitely be limited to stock RF.

You're on a roll tonight haha.  Stay strong my friend.

[+Stephen]

3 minutes ago, TheNameOfTheGame said:

You're on a roll tonight haha.  Stay strong my friend.

Bad day at work, 6 inches of solid ice in my driveway, uncontrollable IBS coming up on TEN YEARS NOW due to a surgery, and 3 more days of work this week before I can hunker down in freezing temps and do more of nothing.  Sorry man.  Imagine what my poor wife has to put up with.  I'm gonna take my old man pills and go to bed now, so I can get up extra early and yell at some clouds

[Lynxpro]

On 2/16/2021 at 6:33 PM, BillC said:

There are 512KB static RAM only upgrades available, and also the very popular U1MB which combines 1MB static RAM with other features.

 

There is even a diagnostic device, the SYSCHECK 2.2, which plugs into the XL PBI or XE ECI/CART port and also offers a 512KB static RAM upgrade without even opening the machine.

 

 

 

You're talking 512K in response to me citing 8MB and 16MB. Do not display such weakness to the Commoders and the Woznians. Weakness belongs to the Sinclarist door stops, not to the grand Atari Force.

[Mazzspeed]

46 minutes ago, Lynxpro said:

 

You're talking 512K in response to me citing 8MB and 16MB. Do not display such weakness to the Commoders and the Woznians. Weakness belongs to the Sinclarist door stops, not to the grand Atari Force.

What year is it? 1984? Are you still in the schoolyard?

 

You literally have no idea what you're talking about. I love all 8bit machines, and 16MB directly accessible via DMA is nothing to sneer at. You want bank switched RAM? A 6510 at 48Mhz? The ability to dump software directly into RAM at hyperspeed? That can also be done.

 

I'm glad you're not the one designing this board, because I want to see something awesome. ?

Edited February 18, 2021 by Mazzspeed

[Lynxpro]

2 minutes ago, Mazzspeed said:

What year is it? 1984? Are you still in the schoolyard?

 

You literally have no idea what you're talking about. I love all 8bit machines, and 16MB directly accessible via DMA is nothing to sneer at. You want bank switched RAM? That can also be done.

 

I'm glad you're not the one designing this board. ?

 

I couldn't care less what you personally like or love. And the feeling's mutual because who'd want to buy an Average512K Upgrade board that you seem to be advocating for?

[Mazzspeed]

Just now, Lynxpro said:

 

I couldn't care less what you personally like or love. And the feeling's mutual because who'd want to buy an Average512K Upgrade board that you seem to be advocating for?

I don't believe I even mentioned 512k of anything. What a remarkably odd reply.

[Lynxpro]

2 minutes ago, Mazzspeed said:

I don't believe I even mentioned 512k of anything. What a remarkably odd reply.

 

Indicative of me not caring about what you like or dislike so I didn't check to see if you were the person I was replying to previously. After discovering you weren't that person after all, I must say, at least that previous post had substance to it.

[BillC]

1 hour ago, Lynxpro said:

You're talking 512K in response to me citing 8MB and 16MB. Do not display such weakness to the Commoders and the Woznians. Weakness belongs to the Sinclarist door stops, not to the grand Atari Force.

Personally I don't see much reason for upgrades >1MB, they are really only needed for a limited amount of special software.

 

There is also the Antonia upgrade that has 4MB RAM along with a 65816 CPU.

[BillC]

1 hour ago, BillC said:

There is also the Antonia upgrade that has 4MB RAM along with a 65816 CPU.

I forgot to mention the Rapidus upgrade available from Lotharek, up to 30.5MB(@160MHz) storage RAM in addition to the existing RAM, 20MHz 65816 CPU. 

https://lotharek.pl/productdetail.php?id=122

[+DjayBee]

On 2/17/2021 at 1:11 AM, Lynxpro said:

 

That's fantastic but I think extra RAM would be beneficial for future games, demos, and who knows what else. The fact that Apple II folks are using 8MB for AppleWorks - AppleWorks! Why??? - in the generally inferior Apple II is galling. And those 16MB REU expansion cartridges for the C64 is for more than just running the Bad Apple demo more efficiently. It should be noted that that's not with using a 65816 but their bone stock MOS/CSG "6510" CPUs. Nor are those 8MB Apple II RAM expanders [they are for the Apple II, not the IIgs which did have 8MB expansion back in 1987, pricey as frak it was]...

 

I used the air quotes there because the MOS/CSG 6510 isn't the same as the apparently failed Synertek/Atari 6510 of 1979 which was a 6502 with 16-bit extended instructions which may or may not have been used 5 years later in WDC's 65816.

Yeah man, great, another contender for the best replacement XE-motherboard.

 

Go ahead, design it and publish the Gerbers.

?