Atari 130XE Remake

[+MrFish]

Just to consolidate my thoughts here.

 

The list is in order of most importance to least.

 

Only items #1 & #2 are primary concerns here. I could live without all the others.

 

Also, I'd buy several of your updated boards with none of these upgrades.

 

Primary

1. UAV (or improved onboard video circuit)

2. 320 KB to 1 MB RAM

 

Secondary

3. Dual POKEY

4. PAL/NTSC capable

 

Icing

5. Multiple OS Selection

6. 65816

 

Additional

SMD & CPLD fine

 

[santosp]

At the moment I have as my main guideline the fidelity in relation to the original as it was designed about 30 years ago by Atari.

The version I am working on, which seems to be one of the final designs before the Atari stop the production of 130 XE, has a mark date embosed bottom side of board the "24th week of 1995".

The only material I will not use is the RF frequency modulator device, which unfortunately performs one more function in this board version. The creation of the composite video signal.
Fortunately this is solved by looking carefully at the schematics diagrams of Atari's next and final implementation of 8 bit computer, the console XEGS.  It seems in these that with the use of a transistor and some passive components, this is finally solved.
So the pcb  will be ready to work with both video output modes.

Of course, it is most likely that the classic vertical bars will be exist here, as in the initial implementation of the Atari! But that is another story....

 

Finally I would like to see all these electrical points needed as extras for interior extensions gathered in a say DIL socket. 

 

I would like also to see the electronic components of the "UAV" extension  to be in this new pcb remake, so the new maker/owner to be able to enjoy it.   As far as space is concerned, there are plenty empty area on the removed RF modulator. 

Of course all of us must not forget the most important thing. This can be happen only if the inventor behind UAV permit it!  Ιn other case a socket can be placed there, ready to receive a complete UAV add-on.

[+kheller2]

I think you would need to decide if the project is to build a drop in replacement for 130XE cases using a better quality board.  If 130XE bare boards were available that were of good quality, I can see a few people actually building them out with proper sockets, etc. in order to make them primary systems.  Although, I don't see a lot of folks removing components from a bad 130XE board just to drop back into the same new 130XE board.

 

If the goal is to re-design the 130XE board so it can handle all the drop-in upgrades that are out there, that is a different direction.

 

The fellow who re-did the 800XL board has me thinking of the using the final 800XLF design, the first 130XE design (128K 800XLF), and using the 4 RAM chip design from the later 130XEs (more space, extra Pokey) to build a drop in 800XL board replacement.  Sure, it would make sense to redesign the whole thing and use newer components, SRAM, etc.. but thats what the 1088 designs are.

 

I digress.

 

 

 

[+ZuluGula]

31 minutes ago, santosp said:

I would like also to see the electronic components of the "UAV" extension  to be in this new pcb remake,

It's not the same UAV everyone is talking about here, but it supposed to be a functional equivalent.

https://github.com/redhawk668/Atari-600XL-S-Video-Composite

If I'm reading the license correctly, its free even for commercial use. 

[+CharlieChaplin]

35 minutes ago, santosp said:

At the moment I have as my main guideline the fidelity in relation to the original as it was designed about 30 years ago by Atari.

The version I am working on, which seems to be one of the final designs before the Atari stop the production of 130 XE, has a mark date embosed bottom side of board the "24th week of 1995".

 

 

Really 1995 (when they sold the Atari Jaguar) ?

 

[santosp]

38 minutes ago, CharlieChaplin said:

 

Really 1995 (when they sold the Atari Jaguar) ?

 

Yes this is wrong although I mention 30 years. I meant 1990. ? 

Edited March 2, 2021 by santosp

[+Larry]

Whatever you decide is good with me.  I actually don't remember you calling for a "committee" to decide on features? Having an improved quality board available will be great!

[santosp]

2 hours ago, Larry said:

Whatever you decide is good with me.  I actually don't remember you calling for a "committee" to decide on features. Having an improved quality board available will be great!

Thank you Larry!  ?

[santosp]

On 3/2/2021 at 11:28 PM, ZuluGula said:

It's not the same UAV everyone is talking about here, but it supposed to be a functional equivalent.

https://github.com/redhawk668/Atari-600XL-S-Video-Composite

If I'm reading the license correctly, its free even for commercial use. 

I noticed that the UAV rights have granted in a new owner, so I think to proceed with your proposition. Although I wonder if anyone have try this circuit and what are the results? ?

Maybe at the end is better for me to let the pcb as the original, and someone could add on he prefer. ?

 

For now I have add the alternate EMMU via a 22v10 GAL.

 

Does anyone have in hand  the extra signals used by the most known add ons?  I want to gather them in one place.

 

Edited March 7, 2021 by santosp
Add pictures.

[candle]

simplest way would be adding 2.54mm headers in front of eci/cartridge ports

you could add some footprints for din13 (vbxe) and dvi connectors in place of modulator in one way or another

nice touch would be to add some points for console keys - or labels for easy identification, same goes for joystick ports

or you could go with din8 connector with optional rewiring it to sega-genesis standard

[_The Doctor__]

I thought the idea was to replace the 130XE pcb so we could move our parts over to a better quality, more noise resistant pcb with some convenience headers / picks offs for the most needed signals, possibly adding much needed signal or two for the eci cart area.

 

It was to be a combination of the 130XE pcb's so on could do which ever they had. This one is missing the non Freddy timing path (that really cleans up jail bars) and the different ram chip solutions.  I am not sure what happened maybe too many people voicing opinion... but this appears too cut down to be of use to myself or our little group if the pictures are depicting what the pcb is going to be now.

[+ZuluGula]

Could you add 3 extra holes to the J2 AV connector, so we could use 8 pin DIN and have space for stereo signal? Same like in new 576NUC+. And how about optional barrel connector for power?

[santosp]

1. Barrel DC connector
2. "Sophia" DVI connector
3. 8 pin DIN video connector that support "VBXE" or"UAV" or the standard Atari video 
4. PS/2 connector plus the keyboard "special keys" for "AKI"
5. 22V10 GAL EMMU or the stock Atari one
6. Cartridge and ECI back pin headers.
7. Extra signal header near the Freddy needed for "VBXE"
8. Radial Capacitors versus rare Axials.
 

[_The Doctor__]

Do the  joy- i/o ports still line up in Atari 130xe case?

if not why not put the ps2 connector out the back or some other place..

 

It looks like choice of memory and alt timing/video clean up have been omitted. oh well. best of luck.

Edited March 14, 2021 by _The Doctor__

[santosp]

11 minutes ago, _The Doctor__ said:

Do the  joy- i/o ports still line up in Atari 130xe case?

if not why not put the ps2 connector out the back or some other place..

 

It looks like choice of memory and alt timing/video clean up have been omitted. oh well. best of luck.

The board is designed so that it can be precisely mounted in any 65 or 130 XE Atari. So all the original  I/O connectors fit exactly.   Now if anyone would like to "cut" the plastic shell of their Atari for the extra connectors, it is up to them.  ?

 

Regarding the memory, if it is so necessary for some, I can design a small additional board which can be placed on 2 of the four existing bases and can accommodate the 16 additional  memory chip.  But how contradictory is this in relation to what some people say about the digital noise they produce?
In the end it is better with 16 memorys than with 4? ?  

 

For all the rest add ons, I think that someone should look for other implementations for his Atari, like 1088XEL etc. ?

[tane]

1 hour ago, santosp said:

Regarding the memory, if it is so necessary for some, I can design a small additional board which can be placed on 2 of the four existing bases and can accommodate the 16 additional  memory chip.  But how contradictory is this in relation to what some people say about the digital noise they produce?
In the end it is better with 16 memorys than with 4? ?  

What about space for 'Peterson like' upgrades / or am29f040b 512kb chips instead of 4164/4264 chips?

[santosp]

AM29f040b is a flash memory! ? I think we need dynamic ram.

 

Edited March 14, 2021 by santosp

[tane]

25 minutes ago, santosp said:

I think we need dynamic ram.

Ok, the idea was to replace several chips with a modern one but with higher capacity, if possibly, in order to reduce space and to make an easier installation.

[kogden]

7 hours ago, santosp said:

AM29f040b is a flash memory! ? I think we need dynamic ram.

 

If we are doing things like replacing video circuit....why not just replace dram and associated circuitry with a big SRAM instead?  Eliminating unnecessary passives and TTL chips to keep costs down without going too insane with feature creep seems like a win to me.  

 

I would just be happy with a better quality PCB in the same footprint with clean video output and more expanded RAM.  Mine has damaged lifted traces on SIO port and is falling apart.

[kenames99]

12 hours ago, santosp said:

1. Barrel DC connector
2. "Sophia" DVI connector
3. 8 pin DIN video connector that support "VBXE" or"UAV" or the standard Atari video 
4. PS/2 connector plus the keyboard "special keys" for "AKI"
5. 22V10 GAL EMMU or the stock Atari one
6. Cartridge and ECI back pin headers.
7. Extra signal header near the Freddy needed for "VBXE"
8. Radial Capacitors versus rare Axials.
 

hi Santos,

  I will take at least 2 right now!

 

Ken

 

[nikolaisen]

Same here, qty 2 for me. Nice work. 

[santosp]

Looking at the links the image add-on "VBXE" needs, I wonder if it is wrong to Ι add the "D6XX" signal which is non-existent in this version of the pcb, to the internal header behind the ECI connector? A not used "A" marked pin live ? there. 

It may be better this to not exist in the "ECI" connector itself, for compatibility reasons. Unless there is some extension that uses it!?

Edited March 15, 2021 by santosp

[Mathy]

Hello Panos

 

$D6xx is used by devices like the Blackbox, the MIO and all other devices that (kinda) stick to the PBI rules.

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy

 

[santosp]

Hi Mathy,

Since this signal doesn't exist in XE Atari ECI connector, so how these devices use it?

[+Stephen]

1 hour ago, Mathy said:

Hello Panos

 

$D6xx is used by devices like the Blackbox, the MIO and all other devices that (kinda) stick to the PBI rules.

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy

 

Remember though - a proper PBI device won't hog all device IDs.  Not all devices that hang onto $D600 (address doesn't matter) obey this.