List of ECS BASIC Commands?

[+DZ-Jay]

59 minutes ago, carlsson said:

For some reason, I doubt Mattel would have included that in their marketing.

"Are you intimidated by microcomputers? Scared that you will never be able to understand the complexity of their languages?  Afraid you won't be able to catch up with their constantly increasing speed and power?

 

Well then, fret no more!  Mattel Electronics presents, the slowest,  simplest, smallest version of a computer language ever invented!  Guaranteed to run even slower than your fingers can type, with a tiny chiclet keyboard to slow down even the nimblest fingers!  So small, so limited, so slow, you'll be able to learn the entire language in 5 minutes!

 

The Entertainment Computer System:  It's got BASIC with a capital 'B'."

 

?

Edited February 12, 2021 by DZ-Jay

[carlsson]

In particular if this really was a stop-gap measure to prevent getting daily fees for not having released the computer add-on (KCS) previously promised, it could be viewed as a middle finger gesture: Here, now we have a computer product! Stop bothering us!

[+DZ-Jay]

1 minute ago, carlsson said:

In particular if this really was a stop-gap measure to prevent getting daily fees for not having released the computer add-on (KCS) previously promised, it could be viewed as a middle finger gesture: Here, now we have a computer product! Stop bothering us!

I don't think so.  Personally, I think it's just rushed to market, and they also tried to integrate it within the EXEC parameters.  They were planning a full-fledge BASIC cartridge, with the full language and more RAM, so the intentions were good.

 

    -dZ.

[+DZ-Jay]

1 hour ago, DZ-Jay said:

"The Entertainment Computer System:  It's got BASIC with a capital 'B'."

 

?

 

I was trying to play on the simplistic or "basic" aspect of the language, but on second thought, perhaps a better slogan would be "It's got BASIC with a minuscule 'b'."  Or maybe "We put the SICK in BASIC!"

 

?

Edited February 12, 2021 by DZ-Jay

[carlsson]

"More BASIC than all our competitors!" (or perhaps "More BASIC than anyone else!")

Edited February 12, 2021 by carlsson

[Intelligentleman]

Man you guys really hate ECS BASIC. I guess I have the advantage(?) of discovering it without any pre-launch expectations. I'm not disappointed by it because I knew it was a wonky setup going in. Also, the ability to pull in graphic assets from the Mattel cartridges is rad - whether you can do anything remotely interesting with them in a program or not. I don't care what anybody says  What media company today would openly invite you to mess around with their IP and, potentially, make an entertaining game out of it for you and your friends?

 

Aside from that, a person in this thread shared a link to some of his ECS programs, and just from reading through the code, they look awesomse!

Edited February 12, 2021 by Intelligentleman

[carlsson]

2 minutes ago, Intelligentleman said:

What media company today would openly invite you to mess around with their IP

Nintendo actually comes to my mind with Mario Maker. Actually they were early with that, since Family BASIC for the Nintendo Famicom has a number of built-in Mario graphics for you to reuse as you find fitting. I'm not sure if the Family BASIC even allows you to define your own graphics or if you're stuck with the Mario ones.

[Intelligentleman]

In your guys' opinion, would the Mattel Aquarius be an upgrade, performance-wise, to my ECS and INTV II?

[Intelligentleman]

11 minutes ago, carlsson said:

Nintendo actually comes to my mind with Mario Maker. Actually they were early with that, since Family BASIC for the Nintendo Famicom has a number of built-in Mario graphics for you to reuse as you find fitting. I'm not sure if the Family BASIC even allows you to define your own graphics or if you're stuck with the Mario ones.

I thought of that, too. However, Nintendo is also one of THE most draconian companies when it comes to punishing fans for their homebrew creations. At least they are in recent times.

[carlsson]

The Aquarius was considered outdated when it was released in c:a June 1983, which explains why it was brought off the shelves in October and that the rights were reversed back to Radofin. Still it appears to have a rather fast BASIC for being a 3.58 MHz Z80 machine with Microsoft, so while it may have limits on the graphics side, it would run laps around the ECS BASIC in terms of execution time (and program complexity).

[Intelligentleman]

1 hour ago, carlsson said:

The Aquarius was considered outdated when it was released in c:a June 1983, which explains why it was brought off the shelves in October and that the rights were reversed back to Radofin. Still it appears to have a rather fast BASIC for being a 3.58 MHz Z80 machine with Microsoft, so while it may have limits on the graphics side, it would run laps around the ECS BASIC in terms of execution time (and program complexity).

Awesome. Just bought a complete Aquarius set - base system, tape deck.

 

EDIT: Oops, does not include the mini expander or printer. The printer I can take or leave. But I need that mini expander!

Edited February 12, 2021 by Intelligentleman

[+DZ-Jay]

31 minutes ago, Intelligentleman said:

Man you guys really hate ECS BASIC. I guess I have the advantage(?) of discovering it without any pre-launch expectations. I'm not disappointed by it because I knew it was a wonky setup going in. Also, the ability to pull in graphic assets from the Mattel cartridges is rad - whether you can do anything remotely interesting with them in a program or not. I don't care what anybody says  What media company today would openly invite you to mess around with their IP and, potentially, make an entertaining game out of it for you and your friends?

 

I'm just traumatized by my childhood memories.  It wasn't "pre-launch" expectations, it was that I had seen what other microcomputers could do, so I was very excited about having my own to learn how to program, and did my best within its confines ... then upgraded to a real micro and discovered that almost none of the skills I learned with ECS BASIC (mostly ninja work-arounds to implement some sort of flow control, and fighting with the constraints of the language) were useless and not transportable to real BASIC.

 

It all apparently left a bad taste in my mouth because that's what comes to mind whenever I think of the ECS BASIC.  That, and the painfully slow way in which anything ran.

 

Quote

Aside from that, a person in this thread shared a link to some of his ECS programs, and just from reading through the code, they look awesomse!

Yes, apparently some people have managed to do some cool stuff with it.  Imagine my surprise at that when I discovered those programs too!

 

Then again, I was probably 11 or 12 years old when I first had an ECS -- hardly the model of restraint focus and emotional maturity.

 

15 minutes ago, Intelligentleman said:

In your guys' opinion, would the Mattel Aquarius be an upgrade, performance-wise, to my ECS and INTV II?

It's a completely different machine.  Also, like @carlsson said, it was already obsolete before it came out, so it's not all that good.  If you want to play with programming old machines, I recommend one of the more common microcomputers of the day, like one of the Atari 8-bits, Commodore 64, or Apple II, Spectrum, etc.  At least they have plenty of software out there and a large community of users.

 

If you want to program for the Intellivision, then I recommend diving into IntyBASIC.  It's really not a big deal, quite simple to use, and comes with plenty of examples including some full-fledged games.

 

  -dZ.

[carlsson]

Yes, the Aquarius has a good enough BASIC to enter the BASIC 10Liner contest which more or less is practically impossible with ECS BASIC except for the absolute most primitive game you can imagine.

 

(also since the CP-1610 is a 16-bit CPU, it would not even meet the contest rules unfortunately)

Edited February 12, 2021 by carlsson

[+DZ-Jay]

2 minutes ago, carlsson said:

Yes, the Aquarius has a good enough BASIC to enter the BASIC 10Liner contest which more or less is practically impossible with ECS BASIC except for the absolute most primitive game you can imagine.

 

Then again, it does have a small but passionate community of enthusiasts still developing hardware and software for it.  So that's a plus.

 

I never had an Aquarius nor ever saw one, so I have no emotional attachment to it, and therefore no interest on it.

 

   -dZ.

[Intelligentleman]

I know the Mattel computers aren't as good as the others that were on the market at the time, but i have an emotional attachment to the brand, and I'm really not interested in programming for anything else.

[Intelligentleman]

DZ-Jay, i know you said that none of the skills you learned on the ECS translated to the "real" computers, BUT, what about as a tool to simple understand the concept of programming a computer in the first place. Young kids today have no idea how a piece of software comes to be in the first place. So I still think the ECS is good in that regard.

[carlsson]

5 minutes ago, Intelligentleman said:

i have an emotional attachment to the brand

Perhaps you'd be interested in obtaining a c:a 1999 Barbie or Hot Wheels PC in that case?

 

[+DZ-Jay]

Just now, Intelligentleman said:

I know the Mattel computers aren't as good as the others that were on the market at the time, but i have an emotional attachment to the brand, and I'm really not interested in programming for anything else.

I understand.  Same with me.

 

My recommendation is ...

If you had an Intellivision, go for IntyBASIC.  If you had an Aquarius, do that instead.

 

If you had an ECS ... play with it for a while, then go for IntyBASIC. :)

 

[Intelligentleman]

2 minutes ago, DZ-Jay said:

I understand.  Same with me.

 

My recommendation is ...

If you had an Intellivision, go for IntyBASIC.  If you had an Aquarius, do that instead.

 

If you had an ECS ... play with it for a while, then go for IntyBASIC.

 

Alright. So essentially that is what's happening here. The last piece of the puzzle will be IntyBasic, I suppose. But I'm still enjoying the novelty of programming on the ECS. I love the look of the display too. It's completely impractical due to the GIANT font size, but man does it look cool when you write even just a simple program on there! haha.

[Intelligentleman]

3 minutes ago, carlsson said:

Perhaps you'd be interested in obtaining a c:a 1999 Barbie or Hot Wheels PC in that case?

 

Ok, now those I would like to kill with fire. lol.

[carlsson]

So you like Mattel, and you like computers, but you don't like every computer that may have been sold through Mattel.

[+DZ-Jay]

15 minutes ago, Intelligentleman said:

DZ-Jay, i know you said that none of the skills you learned on the ECS translated to the "real" computers, BUT, what about as a tool to simple understand the concept of programming a computer in the first place. Young kids today have no idea how a piece of software comes to be in the first place. So I still think the ECS is good in that regard.

The problem is that, in my opinion, some of those concepts are corrupted by the need to fight the language in order to get anything done.

 

For instance, if you want to teach a child how Boolean logic influences control flow, you can expose them to the "IF" statement, but other than trivial comparison, you saw how convoluted it is to express something as fundamentally simple as the concept of "not equal."

 

That's what happened to me as a child.  I was purposely exaggerating the experience for dramatic effect, but essentially, I ended up learning how to fight with ECS BASIC more so than learning how to think logically.

 

Still, it's not completely useless, so don't let me discourage your child.  Just be aware that it tends to enforce a set of bad habits for anybody clever and curious enough to want to break away from the short examples shown in the user's guide.

 

     -dZ.

Edited February 12, 2021 by DZ-Jay

[Intelligentleman]

4 minutes ago, carlsson said:

So you like Mattel, and you like computers, but you don't like every computer that may have been sold through Mattel.

Well for example. My son wouldn't even be interested in a computer that was styled like either one of those cases. He would be turned off because they don't even resemble a "real" computer aethetically. Compated to the INTV/ECS and Aquarius, which at least look like something "serious." Well, to a 6-year-old kid, anyway.

[Intelligentleman]

3 minutes ago, DZ-Jay said:

The problem is that, in my opinion, some of those concepts are corrupted by the need to fight the language in order to get anything done.

 

For instance, if you want to teach a child how Boolean logic influences control flow, you can expose them to the "IF" statement, but other than trivial comparison, you saw how convoluted it is to express something as fundamentally simple as the concept of "not equal."

 

That's what happened to me as a child.  I was purposely exaggerating the experience for dramatic effect, but essentially, I ended up learning how to fight with ECS BASIC more so than learning how to think logically.

 

Still, it's not completely useless, so don't let me discourage your child.  Just be aware that it tends to enforce a set of bad habits for anybody clever and curious enough to want to break away from the short examples shown in the user's guide.

 

     -dZ.

Totally get what you're saying. If I was going to ever introduce programming to my kids, I can see using the ECS - but only so far as to show them the concept of using alphanumeric "words" and "phrases" to literally tell a computer what to do.

 

Then, if they started showing real interest, that's when I'd switch them over to something worth spending time to learn. At first, they don't even need to know about different programming languages. I just want them to understand that we tell computers what to do, then the computer does it. (At least for now... lol, that is quickly changing).

[+DZ-Jay]

4 minutes ago, Intelligentleman said:

Totally get what you're saying. If I was going to ever introduce programming to my kids, I can see using the ECS - but only so far as to show them the concept of using alphanumeric "words" and "phrases" to literally tell a computer what to do.

 

Then, if they started showing real interest, that's when I'd switch them over to something worth spending time to learn. At first, they don't even need to know about different programming languages. I just want them to understand that we tell computers what to do, then the computer does it. (At least for now... lol, that is quickly changing).

?

 

Now (perhaps out of personal self-interest to expand the Intellivision programming community and see more games being made for the Intellivision), let me once again encourage you to take up IntyBASIC.

 

     -dZ.

Edited February 12, 2021 by DZ-Jay