Config - then exit instead of boot

[Frankie]

After I run config and setup the drives I want how come I have to "boot", why can't I just exit and use the drives I just setup? 

What am I missing?

 

Frank

[_The Doctor__]

It would be awesome to allow both modes of usage, if only the disk drive setup could be separated and small enough not to wipe out what you already have going on in memory... since this is not a PBI device, it can't keyhole and swap memory transparently. This makes the chore difficult. Perhaps a utility to use all those fine points of access might be made to do just what you want... probably using one of the devices Thom has already coded.

 

It's reached the point we need utilities like those made for other devices from yesteryear. We need people who will write such utilities rather than trying to fit everything in the fujinet itself... my fear is the bloat will prevent other really cool things from fitting in firmware or pseudo firmware... let the fujinet team concentrate on the nuts and bolts for now...  once that's done I am certain folks can make all the calls and menus they need to do things.

Edited February 12, 2021 by _The Doctor__

[tschak909]

13 minutes ago, _The Doctor__ said:

It would be awesome to allow both modes of usage, if only the disk drive setup could be separated and small enough not to wipe out what you already have going on in memory... since this is not a PBI device, it can't keyhole and swap memory transparently. This makes the chore difficult. Perhaps a utility to use all those fine points of access might be made to do just what you want... probably using one of the devices Thom has already coded.

 

It's reached the point we need utilities like those made for other devices from yesteryear. We need people who will write such utilities rather than trying to fit everything in the fujinet itself... my fear is the bloat will prevent other really cool things from fitting in firmware or pseudo firmware... let the fujinet team concentrate on the nuts and bolts for now...  once that's done I am certain folks can make all the calls and menus they need to do things.

Sigh. This is why I wrote the fujinet-config-tools, there's a CLI tool for every single thing in CONFIG. I put these on the SDX ROM that I built, and there's a copy of fnc-tools.atr on the atari-apps.irata.online TNFS server.

 

Config itself was designed to be a boot loaded program, it runs, it does its thing, there's nothing else in memory, so it has to boot. 

 

(Now I'm willing to bet, because I put those statements in THAT order, that some of you will not read what I just wrote and say WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY? sigh.) 

 

-Thom

[_The Doctor__]

I am making the case- config is beyond config, and as stated elsewhere by myself, that people should use what you provided to make their own utilities etc. to do what they want, perhaps will make stuff like they did for all other devices or the past

perhaps their own #FujiFig

 

oh wait I come around to saying just about the same thing in the last part of that quote...

 

all this heavy breathing all the time over support for what you want in the first place.- okee dokee

Edited February 12, 2021 by _The Doctor__

[tschak909]

9 minutes ago, _The Doctor__ said:

I am making the case- config is beyond config, and as stated elsewhere by myself, that people should use what you provided to make their own utilities etc. to do what they want, perhaps will make stuff like they did for all other devices or the past

perhaps their own #FujiFig

 

oh wait I come around to saying just about the same thing in the last part of that quote...

 

all this heavy breathing all the time over support for what you want in the first place.- okee dokee

Yup, and all of that is even documented:

https://github.com/FujiNetWIFI/fujinet-platformio/wiki/SIO-Commands-for-Device-ID-%2470

 

All of my frustration comes from spending over a year writing documentation, making videos, writing both atari side and firmware code, and I am on the edge of being exhausted.

 

-THom

[_The Doctor__]

You know you are allowed to take a break- just like any marathon, you have to conserve yourself, otherwise you risk dropping from exhaustion during the sprints. I don't know anyone who runs 60 miles the day before the marathon. I don't think they'd get out of the starting blocks...

 

I am saying it's okay to take time off, smell the flowers, let your mind get itself together... play a round of whatever sport you like, a games, time with your kid, wife... anything to recharge the mind, body, spirit.

[phigan]

You can already do everything you need to do with the command line tools from the Atari, so I agree you don't necessarily need the exiting config part.. But what could also replace that is the ability to mount slots from the web interface. I very often find myself wanting one more disk attached, and nothing else mounted with the fujinet tools.. so here we go power cycling and shifting things around.

 

Perhaps I should get into the habit of always leaving the tools mounted in D4: or something :).

I just realized, though, that doesn't help for when you're already in a program and need to put in a different disk!

Edited February 13, 2021 by phigan

[StefanD]

12 hours ago, phigan said:

I very often find myself wanting one more disk attached, and nothing else mounted with the fujinet tools..

Press Fujinet Reset button, use FMOUNT (now on D1:) and then FMALL (to remount all disks). I'm getting more and more used to the CLI tools - I even don't want to boot into CONFIG on powerup, but right into my XDOS ?

 

[phigan]

20 hours ago, StefanD said:

Press Fujinet Reset button, use FMOUNT (now on D1:) and then FMALL (to remount all disks). I'm getting more and more used to the CLI tools - I even don't want to boot into CONFIG on powerup, but right into my XDOS ?

 

Right, but what do you do if you've got a terminal program loaded, you're logged into a BBS or whatever, and you want to download a file.. Damn, the boot disk is mounted read-only.. damn, I don't have a "work disk" mounted on D2:.. damn, it doesn't recognize the HD on the cart as D3:..

 

If these were real disks, I could just swap something out somewhere. Thank goodness they're not, though, I'll say that.

Edited February 15, 2021 by phigan

[tschak909]

13 hours ago, phigan said:

Right, but what do you do if you've got a terminal program loaded, you're logged into a BBS or whatever, and you want to download a file.. Damn, the boot disk is mounted read-only.. damn, I don't have a "work disk" mounted on D2:.. damn, it doesn't recognize the HD on the cart as D3:..

 

If these were real disks, I could just swap something out somewhere. Thank goodness they're not, though, I'll say that.

I really don't know what to do here. to keep costs low, and the device simple, we DELIBERATELY did not put a screen on this unit (there is no I/O space for it!), so the options we could come up with to modify slots literally were:

 

(1) boot into CONFIG

(2) use the fnc-tools

 

anyone else want to take a whack at adding a (3)rd?

 

-Thom

 

[_The Doctor__]

I can not check my idea, fujinet down...

but if you are using bobterm, it used to be possible to leave and use DOS, or sometimes use the built in DOS shell in some way...

try that to gain access to the tools and mount/format/whatever... and then exit the shell or load the term program again

 

just a thought

 

it is an issue as many disks might already be nearly full or full and not necessarily even write locked...

 

A quick fill this slot with a blank button might be a good idea... no screen needed...

the logic to interpret the buttons is another issue... but hey... where there is a will... there is a way...

Edited February 15, 2021 by _The Doctor__

[mozzwald]

3 hours ago, tschak909 said:

I really don't know what to do here. to keep costs low, and the device simple, we DELIBERATELY did not put a screen on this unit (there is no I/O space for it!), so the options we could come up with to modify slots literally were:

 

(1) boot into CONFIG

(2) use the fnc-tools

 

anyone else want to take a whack at adding a (3)rd?

(3) add disk management & mounting to FujiNet webui

 

I had this idea early on, think it would be worthwhile and will take some significant work in the firmware.

[tschak909]

1 hour ago, mozzwald said:

(3) add disk management & mounting to FujiNet webui

 

I had this idea early on, think it would be worthwhile and will take some significant work in the firmware.

Yup. This is doable.

 

-Thom

[phigan]

That's what I was saying above

[tschak909]

4 minutes ago, phigan said:

That's what I was saying above

Apologies if I misunderstood. Stress levels at an all time high in my household at the moment.

 

-Thom

 

[twh/f2]

On 2/15/2021 at 9:46 PM, mozzwald said:

(3) add disk management & mounting to FujiNet webui

 

I had this idea early on, think it would be worthwhile and will take some significant work in the firmware.

 

(4) add lightweight (non-boot) DOS&SDX compatible GUI for disk management

 

I see similarities to Raster's legendary SDRIVE GUI which is perfectly runnable from SDX and after configuration it exits nicely to the command line.

[tschak909]

somebody wanna code that?

 

btw, CONFIG can run just fine from SDX.

 

-Thom

 

[cathrynm]

Running config from SpartaDosX worked for me.

 

I was trying to go all command line, but what went weird for me is that although FLS was working fine from DOS2.5, it was acting weird from SpartDosX.  I can list a directory of the root of a, err, host, but some extra garbage character was getting into the command line that caused it to break if I tried adding a path.  DOS2.5 it's fine though. I think it's something on the 6502 side, but I looked at the source, but didn't see anything obvious.

[tschak909]

3 minutes ago, cathrynm said:

Running config from SpartaDosX worked for me.

 

I was trying to go all command line, but what went weird for me is that although FLS was working fine from DOS2.5, it was acting weird from SpartDosX.  I can list a directory of the root of a, err, host, but some extra garbage character was getting into the command line that caused it to break if I tried adding a path.  DOS2.5 it's fine though. I think it's something on the 6502 side, but I looked at the source, but didn't see anything obvious.

The best debugging tool there is to run a debug monitor (either from the Flasher or from platform.io) while running the command to see if something's being munged.

This project is a bit unique amongst Atari peripherals in that all the weight is on the peripheral side, the Atari code just sends commands, really.

 

-Thom

[_The Doctor__]

Atari has a history of Smart Peripherals... it's all good

[apc]

On 2/15/2021 at 9:46 PM, mozzwald said:

(3) add disk management & mounting to FujiNet webui

 

I had this idea early on, think it would be worthwhile and will take some significant work in the firmware.

(again, seems I lost the post before submitting)

I need this functionality for my PC port of FujiNet too E.g. without Fuji HW, on PC version I have no button to rotate images... I need to add some CLI or TextUI or use existing WebUI. I have started with WebUI already.

 

So far it is possible browse local SD and remote TNFS and download files. For some time I was struggling with serial port on macos, but now I am again working on "mount page" with options to select drive slot and mount mode to mount the image.

 

If interested, I think this feature/hack can be ported back to fujinet-platformio.

 

Jan

[_The Doctor__]

the config mounted disk slots should persist through power offs was a discussion

the device should only be loading in the bare minimum to make it simply work (it should just work credo)...

the config should not appear unless called...

config should be able to be loaded/called in by some other means none the less...  as is customary... by way of a poll, software, sio command, and or as a button held at power up.

 

before we hear about whatever tool exists... consider these in the context of norms and without the need of some web interface. I'd even consider using a configuration port where we use a terminal on the Atari or Another Atari to play with things.

 

we don't need config popping up at every power on as the os runs polling or DOS poll scans occur... it just needs to make itself available and dump in it's needed bits... not launch the config program...

 

this is part of the reason SD/SDX flavors and certain cartridges fail... Nothing is inherently wrong with all the parts, they just need to be broken up and made more transparent in some cases and invisible in others...

Edited February 21, 2021 by _The Doctor__

[apc]

Disable Config boot in web interface? Oh, you don't like the web interface ? On the other hand I understand your point the Config boot should be controllable just with minimal effort, like pressing the button, etc. - but isn't it already (not sure, I am not owner yet)?

 

In my post I described additional changes I did while working on PC port. They are not necessary for original FujiNet.  As mentioned, without FN hardware, without buttons, the web interface is the way to control some configuration and maybe someone can find it interesting for original FN too

 

[mozzwald]

53 minutes ago, apc said:

If interested, I think this feature/hack can be ported back to fujinet-platformio

Very interested. If you post your code somewhere, we can look into backporting it.

 

34 minutes ago, _The Doctor__ said:

the config mounted disk slots should persist through power offs was a discussion

This is/always was the case. Disk slot configuration is saved to the internal and SD card (if available) fnconfig.ini file.

35 minutes ago, _The Doctor__ said:

config should be able to be loaded/called in by some other means none the less...  as is customary... by way of a poll, software, sio command, and or as a button held at power up.

the fnctools for dos can be used to configure the already running fujinet

47 minutes ago, _The Doctor__ said:

the device should only be loading in the bare minimum to make it simply work (it should just work credo)...

the config should not appear unless called...

The time it takes the fujinet to boot and be ready for the Atari is important here. It takes some time for fujinet to get all the devices ready and be connected to the network. If you are powering the fujinet from the SIO bus then it will do a fresh bootup every time and must reload everything. Network is probably not connected so you cannot boot from a tnfs disk. This problem is avoided by booting the config disk when fujinet is powered up. Maybe there's a way around it by creating a tiny boot disk that polls fujinet until it's ready then it boots the configured disks.

[_The Doctor__]

no! config should just not come up at all unless called the other ways... it gets in the way of cartridges that will happily load polled drivers, devices and DOS... currently it gets in the way, why must we boot into the config and reset... it is not needed. Some carts when turned off or reset while doing other stuff don't turn back on, or you may be able to run some utility and reset... it's a mess.  cold Boot config reset warm boot(if the cart didn't die during the fight) load some utils attempt to turn cart back on reboot did it die?   issue for Orion/OSS/reeve/sparta/music/atariwriter... and on and on... work your way through the versions... some revs may some may not but it doesn't have to be this way..

all or nothing, in and out of a web interface isn't nearly ideal either..

Edited February 21, 2021 by _The Doctor__