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doug0909

Girlfriend playing Robotron

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I just introduced my girlfriend to Robotron with the fantastic Atari 7800 version. She seemed to enjoy it and we might try co-op on the 2600 demo tomorrow. However, my custom double d-pad Robotron controller seems to have given her a blister. What better options are there? Also should I be concerned that she kept killing the Robots without regard to saving members of the "nuclear" family? 16132602021899107610398969991553.thumb.jpg.f5488e69147ad2336f066fc2103ee5ec.jpg

Edited by doug0909
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Thanks for the shoutout!

 

Out of respect for the forum, I feel obligated to point out that the Super Twin 78 and the Easy 78 boards are also available from the AA Store, where their sale helps support the site.

 

And you can choose your button layout and colors.

AE76E85C-B7EF-4751-B93A-8BF17E9AB898.jpeg

0AA64BAD-E9CB-4F4B-BBF5-0A8CCA531F7D.jpeg

2B9A8F46-1E37-4162-9DBF-066C676ED916.jpeg

37A07C40-6246-4352-ADCE-3202DE121B86.jpeg

Edited by edladdin
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Or, for arcade accuracy...a Robotron: 2084 controller with WICO leaf-switch joysticks:

 

KQT8eU.png

 

Providing that sweet sweet silence, that only leaf-switch joysticks can provide!  😉

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18 hours ago, doug0909 said:

I just introduced my girlfriend to Robotron with the fantastic Atari 7800 version. She seemed to enjoy it and we might try co-op on the 2600 demo tomorrow. However, my custom double d-pad Robotron controller seems to have given her a blister. What better options are there? Also should I be concerned that she kept killing the Robots without regard to saving members of the "nuclear" family? 16132602021899107610398969991553.thumb.jpg.f5488e69147ad2336f066fc2103ee5ec.jpg

I'm thinking Steam or MAME have a version you can play with a Playstation dual analog controller. Or one of the XB360/PS3 on consoles, if you have one. It's theoretically possible to use a PS2 dual shock for Robotron on any of the Atari consoles this way, too, but no one has ever sold such an adapter ready to use.

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The Edladdin "Super 78" really must be played to be understood, the fun of 2 clicky sanwa's and a nice hefty feeling case make Robotrons and a lot of 7800/2600 games way more fun to play.   Really can't stress enough, if you ever thought about getting an arcade stick these are great.  

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Unfortunately the noise of 2 clicky Sanwa's, whilst playing Robotron: 2084, sounds like:

 

CZmTwX.jpg

 

...two accountants engaged in a stapler fight!  🤣

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2 hours ago, doubledown said:

Unfortunately the noise of 2 clicky Sanwa's, whilst playing Robotron: 2084, sounds like:

 

CZmTwX.jpg

 

...two accountants engaged in a stapler fight!  🤣

Image result for milton stapler snl

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Atari 7800 is one of the easiest controllers to wire up yourself. I know because if I can understand how to wire in those two resistors, man, anyone can. If you ever considered making your own stick, Atari 7800 is a great place to start.

 

(And for the uber lazy....there is no real reason a Robotron controller needs to have the two button functionality. Wire it up 2600 style. At that point if you can't figure out the wiring, you probably can't tie your shoes either.)

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20 hours ago, doubledown said:

Unfortunately the noise of 2 clicky Sanwa's, whilst playing Robotron: 2084, sounds like:

 

CZmTwX.jpg

 

...two accountants engaged in a stapler fight!  🤣

Only if they're knock-off Sanwa clones.

 

Genuine Sanwas are actually fairly quiet for cherry/microswitch joysticks.

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3 hours ago, John Stamos Mullet said:

Only if they're knock-off Sanwa clones.

 

Genuine Sanwas are actually fairly quiet for cherry/microswitch joysticks.

Not compared to WICO leaf-switch joysticks.

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On 2/13/2021 at 5:52 PM, doug0909 said:

Also should I be concerned that she kept killing the Robots without regard to saving members of the "nuclear" family?

Be'fraid. Be very afraid.

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58 minutes ago, doubledown said:

Not compared to WICO leaf-switch joysticks.

True. But those come with their own set of issues. They're silent, but they have a tendency to wear out, and the leafs get too soft/loose over time with extended use. Especially on games that require holding them in one direction for an extended time, like left to right platformers.

 

ita all give and take. I'm willing to put up with the quieter click Of genuine sanwas so I don't have the maintenance issues of Wicos. 

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58 minutes ago, John Stamos Mullet said:

True. But those come with their own set of issues. They're silent, but they have a tendency to wear out, and the leafs get too soft/loose over time with extended use. Especially on games that require holding them in one direction for an extended time, like left to right platformers.

 

ita all give and take. I'm willing to put up with the quieter click Of genuine sanwas so I don't have the maintenance issues of Wicos. 

And Sanwa's spring and switches will wear, and its grease will stiffen and/or collect dust/dirt, and get sticky/gritty.  It all depends on its use, abuse, and environment.  I've not yet had to adjust any leafs (joysticks or buttons) since I started installing them in custom controllers about a year and a half ago.  More often than not, I use them when they're game/era appropriate, versus just simply using the Sanwas that everybody clamors about in the fighting game forums.  I've never built a controller for the latest edition of Tekken where it would actually be game appropriate to use a Sanwa.  The only time I use any of the modern Japanese sticks, is when I don't have enough mounting depth in the enclosure that I'm using for a Western stick, and in that instance I'd use a Seimitsu LS-32 every day of the week over a Sanwa...and I'd replace the micro-switches with higher actuation force Cherry switches so it didn't feel like a toy.  I think people mostly use the Sanwas, again, as they're all they find people talking about on the internet (for modern fighting games), they have a very small "under-panel" profile, and they're inexpensive...even cheaper when buying a Chinese knock-off.  A single WICO will cost you about $50 with shipping for 1, and about $90 with shipping for 2...and most people simply can't afford them, and the tiny little enclosures they want to use can't accommodate them.  In the end its all a matter of personal preference, and what you can afford depending on your budget.  There is no right or wrong...except in the case of Robotron: 2084, where its wrong to use anything other than a pair of WICO heavy duty leaf-switch joysticks...just ask Eugene Jarvis.  😉

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2 hours ago, doubledown said:

And Sanwa's spring and switches will wear, and its grease will stiffen and/or collect dust/dirt, and get sticky/gritty.  It all depends on its use, abuse, and environment.  I've not yet had to adjust any leafs (joysticks or buttons) since I started installing them in custom controllers about a year and a half ago.  More often than not, I use them when they're game/era appropriate, versus just simply using the Sanwas that everybody clamors about in the fighting game forums.  I've never built a controller for the latest edition of Tekken where it would actually be game appropriate to use a Sanwa.  The only time I use any of the modern Japanese sticks, is when I don't have enough mounting depth in the enclosure that I'm using for a Western stick, and in that instance I'd use a Seimitsu LS-32 every day of the week over a Sanwa...and I'd replace the micro-switches with higher actuation force Cherry switches so it didn't feel like a toy.  I think people mostly use the Sanwas, again, as they're all they find people talking about on the internet (for modern fighting games), they have a very small "under-panel" profile, and they're inexpensive...even cheaper when buying a Chinese knock-off.  A single WICO will cost you about $50 with shipping for 1, and about $90 with shipping for 2...and most people simply can't afford them, and the tiny little enclosures they want to use can't accommodate them.  In the end its all a matter of personal preference, and what you can afford depending on your budget.  There is no right or wrong...except in the case of Robotron: 2084, where its wrong to use anything other than a pair of WICO heavy duty leaf-switch joysticks...just ask Eugene Jarvis.  😉

I have 2 arcade cabs with plenty of mounting room/absolutely no size restriction, and not a single 2 player fighting game loaded up on either of them. I have zero interest in any arcade games newer than 1988, really, and even less interest in 2D or 3D fighting games.

 

I use Sanwa's because they are solidly built, feel smooth and accurate, and are incredibly reliable and are well balanced. I've had Wico's in the past, and while yes, they are quiet, they are way too loose/soft for my personal taste even when in brand new condition, and they definitely do wear out over time. 

 

You're right the Semitsu's do feel like toys out of the box. Cheap 1lb or 2lb springs and low gauge switches - and lots of lightweight brittle plastic. That's why I like the Sanwa's, because they feel like genuine arcade quality equipment all the time. Solid metal mounting plates, shafts, and casings, And while yes, they are slightly less expensive than the Wicos at about $30, they are nowhere near the range of "cheap".

 

The idea that "most people can't afford them at $50" in a hobby where people drop upwards of $1500 on an Arcade cab is kind of, well silly.

Edited by John Stamos Mullet

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I've always gone with 2 separate 2600 joysticks sitting on a table. I've heard some use Sega controllers but it's always been uncomfortable using a left handed d pad with my right hand.

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As always it will always be a matter of preference, but if you had a WICO heavy duty stick that felt weaker than a Sanwa, you had a severely worn out or damaged grommet, or you have a beefed up spring in your Sanwa. And I don't know what 2 arcade games you have, but if you like the Sanwas for those games, then you like the Sanwas for thise games...period...you're given right.

 

When compared to $50 WICOs, or original vintage joysticks that can and do range in market price from $100 - $400 or more...yes a $25 - $30 joystick is cheaper...I'm not saying cheap...I'm stating inexpensive.  "Cheap" would be the $10 - $15 Chinese knock offs on Ebay and Amazon.

 

The discussion here is in regards to controllers for the hobby of home video game consoles, not arcade cabinets.  And in this area, I see a hell of a lot more threads and demand for $15 - $25 adapters that let you use a Genesis control pad for this console or that console, and $50 - $65 "arcade-ish" controllers, then I do for high quality, and/or arcade authentic controllers in the $250 - $600 range.  There are those of course who can afford, and are willing to pay for the best of the best...but the other 95%, want or are budgeted for small and cheap, and those points are more important to them than ergonomics, quality, robustness, or ease of use.  Which again...is there right...not everybody can afford a Ferrari.

 

Just look at the flooded nostalgia market of Arcade1UP, AtGames Legends, and other products.  I've seen some of those units on sale or clearance for $150 or less...how well built can those things be.  So well built obviously, that there are an endless number of posts on Reddit and the likes, wherein people are "loving their new gaming unit, but the controls suck", and they're looking for advice on how to replace them, and with what.  Those are not people spending $1500 - $4000 for an original 1 game arcade cabinet, those are people spending $150 - $350 on crap, that will end up on Craigslist in less than a year.  

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1 hour ago, doubledown said:

 

 

 those are people spending $150 - $350 on crap, that will end up on Craigslist in less than a year.  

We're getting way off topic here, but this statement couldn't be further from the truth, or reality. There's an enormous market for those cabs, and Arcade1up have now sold in the millions of units. They're doing better numbers than some of the consoles at this point. Their business has only gotten larger since they started 3 years ago.
 

As for the thread starter's original question, just know, there are other options you might find more enjoyable, or more affordable, or just aesthetically better for your project, so you can take or leave any suggestions here as you see fit, and good luck!

Edited by John Stamos Mullet

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5 hours ago, John Stamos Mullet said:

We're getting way off topic here, but this statement couldn't be further from the truth, or reality. There's an enormous market for those cabs, and Arcade1up have now sold in the millions of units. They're doing better numbers than some of the consoles at this point. Their business has only gotten larger since they started 3 years ago.

And that is exactly what I am saying, there is a very large market for "inexpensive".  Whether thats Arcade1UP cabinets, or small little controllers for home consoles.  To those in the market for these products, price and size are the most important factors.

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On 2/13/2021 at 7:03 PM, cedropoole said:

You can buy an excellent Super 78 twin stick from Edladdin https://edladdin.com/Super-Twin-78-ec-1-002.htm. Or build your own with his Easy 78 kit https://edladdin.com/Easy-78-Input-Output-Board-ec-pcb-01.htm like I did with Sanwa JLW twin joysticks and Crown SDB MX Cherry buttons.

Genesis Atari 7800 Twin Stick.jpg

Cedro, I keep looking at this, is it on a table? Is the depth 2 boards or 4?

 

Really like the natural wood look.

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13 hours ago, doubledown said:

And Sanwa's spring and switches will wear, and its grease will stiffen and/or collect dust/dirt, and get sticky/gritty.  It all depends on its use, abuse, and environment.  I've not yet had to adjust any leafs (joysticks or buttons) since I started installing them in custom controllers about a year and a half ago.  More often than not, I use them when they're game/era appropriate, versus just simply using the Sanwas that everybody clamors about in the fighting game forums.  I've never built a controller for the latest edition of Tekken where it would actually be game appropriate to use a Sanwa.  The only time I use any of the modern Japanese sticks, is when I don't have enough mounting depth in the enclosure that I'm using for a Western stick, and in that instance I'd use a Seimitsu LS-32 every day of the week over a Sanwa...and I'd replace the micro-switches with higher actuation force Cherry switches so it didn't feel like a toy.  I think people mostly use the Sanwas, again, as they're all they find people talking about on the internet (for modern fighting games), they have a very small "under-panel" profile, and they're inexpensive...even cheaper when buying a Chinese knock-off.  A single WICO will cost you about $50 with shipping for 1, and about $90 with shipping for 2...and most people simply can't afford them, and the tiny little enclosures they want to use can't accommodate them.  In the end its all a matter of personal preference, and what you can afford depending on your budget.  There is no right or wrong...except in the case of Robotron: 2084, where its wrong to use anything other than a pair of WICO heavy duty leaf-switch joysticks...just ask Eugene Jarvis.  😉

Leave us not forget that leaf switch joysticks were pretty much all Eugene Jarvis had to choose from at the time. 2 years ago I built a twin stick with Wico joysticks and it is great for Robotron 2084, for a while, until my heavy hand slowly tweeks those switches to less than desired performance. Readjusting the switches fixes the problem until my next episode of overzealous play. Because of this I later built a twin stick with Sanwa JLW joysticks and now I only go back to the Wico twin stick now and then for short plays. Nostalgia reigns strong in this one. Pac-Man also originally used Wico sticks but does it play better than with micro switches? Putting nostagia to the side, for me the answer is no.

Edited by cedropoole

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10 minutes ago, cedropoole said:

 Pac-Man also originally used Wico sticks but does it play better than with micro switches? Putting nostagia to the side, for me the answer is no.

No, Pac-Man cabinets in North America used the Bally/Midway 4-way leaf switch joysticks...and they absolutely play better than every micro-switch joystick. 

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