emkay Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 10 minutes ago, Irgendwer said: So huge and out-of-reach ROM carts were missing back then (1 MB). ? Cannot even imagine which price tag the more memory conservative 128k Albert would have in the beginning 80's. You could have mentioned Yoomp, which fits better to the standard setup. It would be fair enough to expect such games in 1985 or later. And then "ROM" was very cheap, compared to the late 70s. Some years later people paid 200DM for "Neo Geo Carts". So 50DM had been also a fair amount for some huge gaming experience. Mediocre PC games were about 120DM in Germany... Remember ? The Atari started about 1991 in eastern europe... 1MB ROM wasn't even worth to ask for the price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 48 minutes ago, skr said: I´ll probably never see that. Level 08 is the end for me. I´m just not able to control Albert as I want to. All three control options are suffering fine control for me. Tried different sticks, but it keeps being a game of luck, and that gets boring quickly. I was never great at gaming, but some of these new releases make me really feel out of touch! It's is a great looking game however, very nice overall presentation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irgendwer Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 8 minutes ago, emkay said: Remember ? The Atari started about 1991 in eastern europe... 1MB ROM wasn't even worth to ask for the price. Much too late. In the western world this was already behind the peak of the 16 bit systems and why would anybody invest in costly 8 bit modules while 16 bit productions promised more success and benefit. So "Atari-Blast", "Space Harrier" and "Albert" had to compete in the "golden 8-bit times", where those memory requirements were out of reach. Competing against the already better looking 16 bit productions is pointless. Does anybody know the original price of a typical 128k e.g. "Gato"-Cart in 1987? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Irgendwer said: ...more memory conservative 128k Albert... Albert will run on 64 KB, but with less levels. It says only "demo levels" -- without extended memory. I'm not sure exactly what that includes; but if it's a reasonable enough amount, I would count it as a 64 KB game (64 / 128 KB). [Edit: You still get the normal title/splash and options/start screens; but the level number screens are just text; the game itself looks the same.] [Edit 2: I just played through and it's only 3 levels; so, not really much of a game at 64 KB.] Edited February 18, 2021 by MrFish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 There's a topic here that discussed high color games: Games with more than 16 colors. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Level42 Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 3 hours ago, skr said: I´ll probably never see that. Level 08 is the end for me. I´m just not able to control Albert as I want to. All three control options are suffering fine control for me. Tried different sticks, but it keeps being a game of luck, and that gets boring quickly. It’s not a game of luck, it’s a game of skill. I only use the default setting for the joystick and use a Suzo Competition Pro with leaf switches which gives very fine control and very short travel and throw. you need a great joystick for sure. The trick for the long jumps is to get up to speed by running a short distance and then jumping with diagonal upwards pushing of the joystick... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 Yup, and I can't use my slow lcd monitor as it spells death- the 2ms lcd or my crt is a must- then it's all success. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGB1718 Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 On 2/16/2021 at 10:00 PM, Irgendwer said: It's really nice to see at least one game playing with all the colors on the screen. here's some nice colours too city.mp4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irgendwer Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 9 hours ago, Level42 said: It’s not a game of luck, it’s a game of skill. Hmm, if I understood the Polish comment on Atari-Online correct, the random direction change of the wasps has a high frustration level and make success a matter of luck. But since I also read that the game is still under development and will be improved, I don't want to discourage the creators but like to thank them for this unusual production and reason for discussions... ? ...curious in which direction Albert will evolve. ? - Another very colorful game, which astounded me back then (and isn't mentioned in the linked thread) is "Final Legacy": 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 3 hours ago, TGB1718 said: here's some nice colours too city.mp4 There are plenty of Atari games and graphics that use DLI's in the background (or rolling foreground) graphics, but the actual graphic objects are still just 4-5 colors just like those cityscapes zooming by in this video. It's these graphic objects in a game's foreground that don't use DLI's, etc. to create more colors in on screen objects like Albert uses; these games are ultra rare. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 (edited) 16 hours ago, Irgendwer said: Does anybody know the original price of a typical 128k e.g. "Gato"-Cart in 1987? From my memory, it seems to me that all XEGS cartridges were price the same, or you had two tiers of pricing for more standart and then "Super carts" like on the 7800. But I don't think the 128K+ carts were much more, maybe $10-15, IIRC, so really one was overpaying for the cartridges not using banked memory or as much. In any case, I think it averaged about $40-50 for a NEW game XEGS cartridge, maybe some of the classic re-releases were discounted. Edited February 18, 2021 by Gunstar 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanti77 Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 1 hour ago, Gunstar said: There are plenty of Atari games and graphics that use DLI's in the background (or rolling foreground) graphics, but the actual graphic objects are still just 4-5 colors just like those cityscapes zooming by in this video. It's these graphic objects in a game's foreground that don't use DLI's, etc. to create more colors in on screen objects like Albert uses; these games are ultra rare. H.E.R.O. (1984 from Activision) Single sprites have several colors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 (edited) 48 minutes ago, shanti77 said: H.E.R.O. (1984 from Activision) Single sprites have several colors. There were several games back in the day, especially pre-1985, that used more than the base colors. H.E.R.O was one, Alternate Reality is another, The City more than The Dungeon, though both used more than standard colors on-screen. Though it's more down to developer rather than publishers, as many other Datasoft titles just use base colors; Bruce Lee, Zorro, Goonies, etc. But most of these games, while they may have multi-colored sprites, generally it's still just a few and instead of DLI's they just use multiple P/M's for multi-colored sprites. H.E.R.O does have some creatures that use DLI's within the sprites. After '85 what little software the Atari got were ports from the C64 or just quickly done with no concern or time for presentation, and they only bothered to use base colors, like a couple of the Datasoft titles listed above. Another game that makes good use of DLI's within the sprites is the great shooter Callisto. Edited February 18, 2021 by Gunstar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilmenit Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 Many old games were using gradient backgrounds and DLI to change colors. Just checking a few: http://ekranownia.atari8.info/gallery.php?id=60 http://ekranownia.atari8.info/gallery.php?id=254 http://ekranownia.atari8.info/gallery.php?id=1800 http://ekranownia.atari8.info/gallery.php?id=249 http://ekranownia.atari8.info/gallery.php?id=205 http://ekranownia.atari8.info/gallery.php?id=174 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 Yep, plenty to choose from with background DLI's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzip Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 23 minutes ago, shanti77 said: H.E.R.O. (1984 from Activision) Single sprites have several colors. H.E.R.O looks like it is just using DLIs to color the sprites though. 15 minutes ago, Gunstar said: here were several games back in the day, especially pre-1985, that used more than the base colors. H.E.R.O was one, Alternate Reality is another, The City more than The Dungeon, though both used more than standard colors on-screen. Alternate Reality seems to rely heavily on DLIs. Games using DLIs for additional colors where pretty common. What's more impressive are games that use other techniques to change colors midway through a scanline. Those are far less common. What makes Albert impressive is it's not using the common techniques. It doesn't look / play like a typical Atari8 game. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 I cannot believe what I read here . Do even Atari coders not know the limits ? 1 hour ago, ilmenit said: Many old games were using gradient backgrounds and DLI to change colors. Just checking a few: http://ekranownia.atari8.info/gallery.php?id=60 http://ekranownia.atari8.info/gallery.php?id=254 http://ekranownia.atari8.info/gallery.php?id=1800 http://ekranownia.atari8.info/gallery.php?id=249 http://ekranownia.atari8.info/gallery.php?id=205 http://ekranownia.atari8.info/gallery.php?id=174 Why in this world have those links been posted in this thread? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellowman Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 It is finished. When I saw the demo, I thought, another great preview, which will definitely not be finished. I like this game. Very colorful and easy to play. With the good old CX40, I get along well with Albert. Thank you for the great game. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 1 hour ago, Yellowman said: It is finished. When I saw the demo, I thought, another great preview, which will definitely not be finished. I like this game. Very colorful and easy to play. With the good old CX40, I get along well with Albert. Thank you for the great game. What we have learned in the gone 40+ years is that game developers on the Atari have their problems to have the right "feeling" of a good gameplay. The "running" is not that good included into the gameplay. Imagine, if something on the screen happens, when "running" is active. Seeing that there is enough CPU time to do some vertical scrollling on the DLI colored background, it might be possible to do a color indicator , if running is active. The graphics details are pretty and well done enough. It's just a little lost, if it comes to the game mechanics and the indication. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Level42 Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 14 hours ago, emkay said: What we have learned in the gone 40+ years is that game developers on the Atari have their problems to have the right "feeling" of a good gameplay. Uhmmm, I know hundreds of GREAT games from the gone 40+ years... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Level42 Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 16 hours ago, emkay said: I cannot believe what I read here . Do even Atari coders not know the limits ? Why in this world have those links been posted in this thread? Why indeed, nothing of this has to do with the game Albert.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 2 hours ago, Level42 said: Uhmmm, I know hundreds of GREAT games from the gone 40+ years... 100 of 10000 is 1% Atarimania shows about 11000 games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctorclu Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 Looks like a really cool game. Just got my Incogneto 800 up again, so have to check this out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irgendwer Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 (edited) 45 minutes ago, emkay said: 100 of 10000 is 1% Do you think the ratio on C64 or Spectrum is better? I wouldn't wonder if "quality" follows somewhat the Gaussian distribution. Why do you think it is system dependent? Edited February 19, 2021 by Irgendwer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 @Level42 said HUNDREDS (plural) anyway, not 100. Hundreds can even be used past the 1000 mark you know, @emkay, like 23 hundred or what ever, so as per the usual @emkay's "evaluation" of what someone else said is meaningless and pointless. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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