Albert - new colorful game for Atari

[CPUWIZ]

[_The Doctor__]

albert rules

[ilmenit]

Guys, just add emkay to "ignore list" that this forum allows. If enough people do it he may finally be discouraged writing to the void and stop spamming each thread with gibberish.

 

Talking about the game - author said he will look at the ways to improve controls, because he understands it's not ideal. That's why there are still different control schemes to select from. 

Game is simple from the mechanics perspective and even old Bounty Bob had more in this area. It doesn't mean however that the game is bad - simple can be fun too! Without doubt this is visually the most stunning platformer on this platform so far.

[+MrFish]

27 minutes ago, ilmenit said:

Talking about the game - author said he will look at the ways to improve controls, because he understands it's not ideal. That's why there are still different control schemes to select from. 

Game is simple from the mechanics perspective and even old Bounty Bob had more in this area. It doesn't mean however that the game is bad - simple can be fun too! Without doubt this is visually the most stunning platformer on this platform so far.

 

Actually, I find the controls to be perfect. I wouldn't want to see them changed at all.

 

I think where some people are having problems (and it's occasionally making things slightly challenging for me, from time to time), is that platform "edge detection" is slightly unforgiving; and this can cause the player to fall off a little sooner than he would expect. I've seen this in other games (Donkey Kong Junior comes to mind -- another game that I like a lot); but for me, this part is not bad at all; and I find the game to have a great balance of difficulty. I find it just difficult and challenging enough to keep things interesting, but not so much to make it frustrating. Sometimes, I think people feel like they should be able to skate through any Atari platform game in a day or two.

 

Aside from that, the game looks beautiful. The levels are nicely designed, the graphic details and quality are fantastic, and the overall production quality is top notch. Add to that, the game pushes the bounds for Atari graphic techniques, giving us some never before seen quality (looking like Amiga/ST/VBXE -- as I said already). Just an amazing piece of software.

 

A couple of things that might improve the game:

1. I think the rainbow background would look a little nicer if a followed a constant pattern with lines that blend one color with the next (see upper background on Crownland levels).

2. Maybe just adding some other types of interaction with enemies and backgrounds, such as:

        a. powerups

        b. weapons

        c. fast trigger pressing to escape waterfall

        d. (etc.)

 

But even without any changes, I find it great; and I've been enjoying the game whenever I have some time to play.

 

[emkay]

45 minutes ago, MrFish said:

 

Actually, I find the controls to be perfect. I wouldn't want to see them changed at all.

 

I think where some people are having problems (and it's occasionally making things slightly challenging for me, from time to time), is that platform "edge detection" is slightly unforgiving; and this can cause the player to fall off a little sooner than he would expect. I've seen this in other games (Donkey Kong Junior comes to mind -- another game that I like a lot); but for me, this part is not bad at all; and I find the game to have a great balance of difficulty. I find it just difficult and challenging enough to keep things interesting, but not so much to make it frustrating. Sometimes, I think people feel like they should be able to skate through any Atari platform game in a day or two.

 

What might help is some indicator for the running "mode " . 

Sometimes you think he's running, but isn't . 

It's also a problem that emulations are slow in reaction and presentation to the screen. 

 

Quote

 

Aside from that, the game looks beautiful. The levels are nicely designed, the graphic details and quality are fantastic, and the overall production quality is top notch. Add to that, the game pushes the bounds for Atari graphic techniques, giving us some never before seen quality (looking like Amiga/ST/VBXE -- as I said already). Just an amazing piece of software.

 

It is, of course. 

 

Quote

A couple of things that might improve the game:

1. I think the rainbow background would look a little nicer if a followed a constant pattern with lines that blend one color with the next (see upper background on Crownland levels).

 

 

It's particular the lines that give the scrolling impression. 

Also, there are 128 available colors. so you could only fill 128 lines . Not all colors are usable , particular greens.

Using this type of mixing, makes the colors sufficient to look like a 16 bit machine. So in my opinion the goal is reached there. 

 

Quote

 

 

2. Maybe just adding some other types of interaction with enemies and backgrounds, such as:

        a. powerups

        b. weapons

        c. fast trigger pressing to escape waterfall

        d. (etc.)

 

But even without any changes, I find it great; and I've been enjoying the game whenever I have some time to play.

 

powerups, just like a helmet could be interesting

weapons, not really due to available resources. 

escape waterfall could be a part of powerups

 

Also possible, playing more with the palette in the foreground. 

Particular when the background is full of colors, a full gray foreground with robotic insects for example (hidden level or so) makes things a lot impressive 

 

Edited February 21, 2021 by emkay

[+MrFish]

14 minutes ago, emkay said:

What might help is some indicator for the running "mode " . 

Sometimes you think he's running, but isn't . 

Yeah, that's happened sometimes for me too; but not much problem, really.

 

I suppose the graphic of the character could change slightly to indicate running in a more emphatic way; for instance, he could lean forward slightly, as one does when running.

  

14 minutes ago, emkay said:

It's also a problem that emulations are slow in reaction and presentation to the screen. 

Not sure what you mean here. It doesn't play well in Emulators? If that's not what you mean, then what "emulations" are you talking about?

 

14 minutes ago, emkay said:

It's particular the lines that give the scrolling impression. 

Also, there are 128 available colors. so you could only fill 128 lines . Not all colors are usable , particular greens.

Using this type of mixing, makes the colors sufficient to look like a 16 bit machine. So in my opinion the goal is reached there. 

Maybe you misunderstand what I'm saying here.

 

I'm not saying using lines for blending is a problem; and I'm not saying he's using too many colors, or not enough, either.

 

What I'm saying is that the line pattern used is not very consistent between colors. By using a consistent pattern of lines, the appearance will look more polished.

 

The pattern of lines used to blend colors on Crownland here is an example; it repeats in a consistent way. This will look even nicer when used with the many colors that Albert has.

 

 

 

14 minutes ago, emkay said:

weapons, not really due to available resources.

Possibly not; I don't know how tight things are with cycles here. But there's usually time to do something with small missiles.

  

14 minutes ago, emkay said:

Also possible, playing more with the palette in the foreground. 

Particular when the background is full of colors, a full gray foreground with robotic insects for example (hidden level or so) makes things a lot impressive 

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing: have some changes in the foreground on some of the levels. It would add even more to what's already amazing scenery.

 

[emkay]

19 minutes ago, MrFish said:

 

Not sure what you mean here. It doesn't play well in Emulators? If that's not what you mean, then what "emulations" are you talking about?

 

 

The original Hardware has it's response in Nanoseconds.

Software response is about Milliseconds plus "waits" on software devices in a multitasking OS. 

 

 

Quote

Maybe you misunderstand what I'm saying here.

 

I'm not saying using lines for blending is a problem; and I'm not saying he's using too many colors, or not enough, either.

 

What I'm saying is that the line pattern used is not very consistent between colors. By using a consistent pattern of lines, the appearance will look more polished.

 

The pattern of lines used to blend colors on Crownland here is an example; it repeats in a consistent way. This will look even nicer when used with the many colors that Albert has.

 

 

For me it is cleverly done. The "chaotic" looking lines do a great mix of colors where the gradient colors were missing.

 

 

 

Edited February 21, 2021 by emkay

[+MrFish]

1 minute ago, emkay said:

The original Hardware has it's response in Nanoseconds.

Software response is about Milliseconds plus "waits" on software devices in a multitasking OS. 

Yeah, I'll agree with that all day long. Altirra is great, but real hardware is the proving ground, especially when it comes to scrolling content.

 

I don't have any PAL-capable hardware right now, though. So, I'll just have to imagine; but I find it amazing and super fun on emulation already.

  

1 minute ago, emkay said:

For me it is cleverly done. The "chaotic" looking lines do a great mix of colors where the gradient colors were missing.

To each their own. I'm not saying it's bad, wrong, or has to be changed; but I do think it could be improved as suggested.

 

[globe]

Absolutely awesome looking game that actually gets quite challenging later on with larger levels.

I wish there was some legit way to continue, like passwords each couple of levels and maybe a bit more variation.

For example levels with winter color scheme and some sliding before stopping, depending on player's horizontal speed.

 

[Jacques]

7 hours ago, ilmenit said:

Without doubt this is visually the most stunning platformer on this platform so far.

Nothing to take away from Albert, but for me the supremacy of Flimbo's Quest WIP in visuals department of platform A8 games remains unchallenged, if we talk technicals.

Of course Albert is great, funny, extraordinary colourful and author's original idea game, but it's not THAT big boom, yet.

But I'm keeping my fingers crossed for Albert 2 already, with Albert's experience and more advanced gameplay, it might become an all-time great, fighting it out with FQ!

Can't wait for both those games anyway.

 

[TheNameOfTheGame]

8 hours ago, MrFish said:

Aside from that, the game looks beautiful. The levels are nicely designed, the graphic details and quality are fantastic, and the overall production quality is top notch. Add to that, the game pushes the bounds for Atari graphic techniques, giving us some never before seen quality (looking like Amiga/ST/VBXE -- as I said already). Just an amazing piece of software.

 

So what graphics techniques are being used in Albert that are used?  I'm always curious to know how the programmer has pushed the boundaries.

[FifthPlayer]

2 hours ago, TheNameOfTheGame said:

 

So what graphics techniques are being used in Albert that are used?  I'm always curious to know how the programmer has pushed the boundaries.

I think if you explain how the magic trick works, it loses all of its impact.

[+Philsan]

The beauty of A8 overscan.

 

Emulators or youtube videos (often with wrong settings that show huge black borders) do not let you appreciate it.

 

  

 

  

[emkay]

5 minutes ago, Philsan said:

The beauty of A8 overscan.

 

Emulators or youtube videos (often with wrong settings that show huge black borders) do not let you appreciate it.

 

  

 

  

And, as you might recognize, the color usage of the background makes absolutely sense.

[ilmenit]

2 hours ago, FifthPlayer said:

I think if you explain how the magic trick works, it loses all of its impact.

There is really no magic here, just a hard programmer's work, a lot of debugging to set things right and proper organization of levels.

It's Antic 4 (text mode) with horizontal and vertical scrolling for playfield, then the carefully selected color changes for background gradient and other objects in front. Player is made of player-missile graphics, while enemies, platforms and items to pick using characters. Enemies can be of different colors than platforms because they never appear in the same height, and the same applies to items to pick. Ladders and extra coloring e.g. on water is done also using player-missiles.

 

That's a pity that Crownland authors (to show off engine capabilities?) decided to place so many PMG in one line which makes too much flickering.

[emkay]

5 minutes ago, ilmenit said:

There is really no magic here, just a hard programmer's work, a lot of debugging to set things right and proper organization of levels.

It's Antic 4 (text mode) with horizontal and vertical scrolling for playfield, then the carefully selected color changes for background gradient and other objects in front. Player is made of player-missile graphics, while enemies, platforms and items to pick using characters. Enemies can be of different colors than platforms because they never appear in the same height, and the same applies to items to pick. Ladders and extra coloring e.g. on water is done also using player-missiles.

 

That's a pity that Crownland authors (to show off engine capabilities?) decided to place so many PMG in one line which makes too much flickering.

.... and the perfect illusion is done by the PMg ladders...

 

But, that's how things work

[+MrFish]

5 hours ago, TheNameOfTheGame said:

So what graphics techniques are being used in Albert that are used?  I'm always curious to know how the programmer has pushed the boundaries.

 

There's really nothing revolutionary going on here in terms of basic techniques. But the authors have brought a lot of things together at once, and done so with intelligence, class, and artistry. It's all about DLI color changes, intelligent vertical layout (object placement), quality graphic design, and not being limited by past efforts. Can the Ataris do multiple large softsprites? Well, I guess so...

 

2 hours ago, FifthPlayer said:

I think if you explain how the magic trick works, it loses all of its impact.

 

I'm not really interested in going into details, although it's no less magic for me knowing. I'm really amazed at how well they did all the large enemies (don't pay attention to the video, where the bee wings look like they don't flap (missing frames), they do!).

 

Edited February 21, 2021 by MrFish

[+MrFish]

28 minutes ago, ilmenit said:

There is really no magic here, just a hard programmer's work, a lot of debugging to set things right and proper organization of levels.

It's Antic 4 (text mode) with horizontal and vertical scrolling for playfield, then the carefully selected color changes for background gradient and other objects in front. Player is made of player-missile graphics, while enemies, platforms and items to pick using characters. Enemies can be of different colors than platforms because they never appear in the same height, and the same applies to items to pick. Ladders and extra coloring e.g. on water is done also using player-missiles.

 

That's a pity that Crownland authors (to show off engine capabilities?) decided to place so many PMG in one line which makes too much flickering.

Ah... you posted while I was typing. It's fine, you gave more specific details; I preferred not to... we're generally saying the same things.

 

Edited February 21, 2021 by MrFish

[+skr]

12 hours ago, MrFish said:

Actually, I find the controls to be perfect. I wouldn't want to see them changed at all.

Albert is a great game. When I complain about the controls, I pointed out, that it is ME, who is not able to master it, what gives me a frustrating experience.

But I actually couldn´t say, how it should be changed to make it easier for me.

Quote

I think where some people are having problems (and it's occasionally making things slightly challenging for me, from time to time), is that platform "edge detection" is slightly unforgiving;

That´s challenging, but doable.  I actually think, that I have trouble with the timing of the fire button. It feels like Albert doesn´t act as fast as I press the button. Will keep trying with other sticks.

 

Quote

Just an amazing piece of software.

That´s for sure.

 

I would be interested in which controllers you use. Maybe I have to get rid of some old behaviours and try other controllers, which I normally avoid to use (I have a huge number of different controllers).

[Irgendwer]

16 minutes ago, ilmenit said:

That's a pity that Crownland authors (to show off engine capabilities?) decided to place so many PMG in one line which makes too much flickering.

 

Even more worse, that they have a version where flickering is better/fixed but AFAIK not released an update.

[+MrFish]

 

5 minutes ago, skr said:

I actually think, that I have trouble with the timing of the fire button. It feels like Albert doesn´t act as fast as I press the button. Will keep trying with other sticks.

There may be an occasional delay. I haven't really looked at the mechanics closely; but overall, the character feels really responsive, and has good freedom of movement.

 

5 minutes ago, skr said:

I would be interested in which controllers you use. Maybe I have to get rid of some old behaviours and try other controllers, which I normally avoid to use (I have a huge number of different controllers).

I'm only playing on emulator (Altirra), and using keyboard (which always works good for me). I suspect that things should be better in terms of responsiveness on real hardware though.

 

The main thing is, there's a lot of quick jumping required here, to avoid the bugs, and get Albert into a position where he can reach the next platform and not fall off; and in that craziness, you're gonna make some mistakes.

 

One thing I like about the game, it doesn't require any "pixel-perfect" jumping. It's all about negotiating the bugs, platforms, and ladders; but you don't have to make your jump at any exact spot. A lot of NES platformers required pixel-perfect jumps, which I hated; it ruined a lot of games that would have otherwise been fun for me.

 

[+skr]

13 minutes ago, MrFish said:

I'm only playing on emulator (Altirra), and using keyboard (which always works good for me). I suspect that things should be better in terms of responsiveness on real hardware though.

Whoa, on an Emulator with keyboard such games are totally unplayable for me. The only thing that works good for me is using the wireless (bluetooth) Classic Controller from the Atari VCS 800 with Atari800MacX. Works great with TimePilot, but I can´t master Albert with it.

 

Quote

One thing I like about the game, it doesn't require any "pixel-perfect" jumping. It's all about negotiating the bugs, platforms, and ladders; but you don't have to make your jump at any exact spot.

I forgot to mention that: I lose many lifes at the ladders. Sometimes, Albert just doesn´t get grip of them. Or he totally ignores them, falling into a waterfall.

[ilmenit]

34 minutes ago, skr said:

I forgot to mention that: I lose many lifes at the ladders. Sometimes, Albert just doesn´t get grip of them. Or he totally ignores them, falling into a waterfall.

1. Which control scheme do you use - the default one (3)?

2. Do you play using the keyboard on the emulator? Many keyboard have limits to number of keys pressed at the same time.

[+MrFish]

2 minutes ago, ilmenit said:

2. Do you play using the keyboard on the emulator? Many keyboard have limits to number of keys pressed at the same time.

I think you're misreading the posts. I'm the one using an emulator and keyboard, and the controls are fine for me.

SKR is using real hardware and joysticks, and having some difficulties.

 

[+MrFish]

I'm using the default control scheme, btw. I never even looked at the other ones.