Colecovision graphics limitations doubts.

[Viny wants to learn how to VCS]

Hello everyone, i want to know more about colecovision, as an artist to do some mockups ( not real projects )

Edited February 16, 2021 by Viny wants to learn how to VCS

[retroillucid]

You will find alot of informations here:

http://www.colecovisionzone.com/page/coleco industries/programmers.html

[Viny wants to learn how to VCS]

1 hour ago, retroillucid said:

Você encontrará muitas informações aqui:

http://www.colecovisionzone.com/page/coleco Industries / programmers.html

 

Hi I'm a bit confused, I want to know things like for example:
How colors behave in tiles and sprites each mode.

[retroillucid]

2 hours ago, Viny wants to learn how to VCS said:

 

Hi I'm a bit confused, I want to know things like for example:
How colors behave in tiles and sprites each mode.

Here's the basic rules:

- 16 colors palette, including black (transparency)
- 1 Color per sprite (you can use multiple sprites for more colors)  
- Maximum of 4 sprites per scanline (without having any flickering) 
- Each 8x8 tiles can only use 2 colors per scanline
 

[Kiwi]

I am referring to 2 newcoleco's video on the subject, which explains the graphic mode.
 

 

I used to make mock up early in my Colecovision game developing years.  I used ICVGM 3.03 that is compliant to Screen mode 2 to make the tiles, and CV Sprite 2 that comes with graphictoolkit to draw and stage the sprites. 

You could try

or Magellan
https://atariage.com/forums/topic/161356-magellan/
to draw the graphic with limitation set in mind. 

 

Edited February 17, 2021 by Kiwi

[youki]

a great tool to create graphic for coleco is also : multipaint  ,  it is deluxe paint like which support graphic mode constraint of classics computer.

 

If you choose MSX1  , you will have exactly the same limitation than the colecovision  , may be little difference concerning the value of the palette. But make no real difference.

 

Multipaint (kameli.net)

 

You have also the tool from Tony Cruise , there is a thread  the programming section (kiwi pointed to it). it is a very great tool too.

 

Edited February 17, 2021 by youki

[Viny wants to learn how to VCS]

5 hours ago, Kiwi said:

Refiro-me ao vídeo de 2 newcoleco sobre o assunto, que explica o modo gráfico.
 

 

Eu costumava fazer mock up no início dos meus anos de desenvolvimento do jogo Colecovision. Eu usei ICVGM 3.03 que é compatível com o modo de tela 2 para fazer os tiles, e CV Sprite 2 que vem com graphictoolkit para desenhar e preparar os sprites. 

Você poderia tentar

ou Magellan
https://atariage.com/forums/topic/161356-magellan/
para desenhar o gráfico com as limitações em mente. 

 

Now im downloading cvpaint2, thanks by suggestion and by explanations!

Edited February 17, 2021 by Viny wants to learn how to VCS

[Viny wants to learn how to VCS]

6 hours ago, retroillucid said:

Here's the basic rules:

- 16 colors palette, including black (transparency)
- 1 Color per sprite (you can use multiple sprites for more colors)  
- Maximum of 4 sprites per scanline (without having any flickering) 
- Each 8x8 tiles can only use 2 colors per scanline
 

Thanks by the pallete image.

[Viny wants to learn how to VCS]

1 hour ago, youki said:

a great tool to create graphic for coleco is also : multipaint  ,  it is deluxe paint like which support graphic mode constraint of classics computer.

 

If you choose MSX1  , you will have exactly the same limitation than the colecovision  , may be little difference concerning the value of the palette. But make no real difference.

 

Multipaint (kameli.net)

 

You have also the tool from Tony Cruise , there is a thread  the programming section (kiwi pointed to it). it is a very great tool too.

 

Thank by these tips.

[Viny wants to learn how to VCS]

1 hour ago, Viny wants to learn how to VCS said:

Now im downloading cvpaint2, thanks by suggestion and by explanations!

The cvpaint2 not worked, multipaint requires jre 1.8.0_74 and Windows 7 support this version?

Edited February 17, 2021 by Viny wants to learn how to VCS

[Viny wants to learn how to VCS]

8 hours ago, retroillucid said:

Here's the basic rules:

- 16 colors palette, including black (transparency)
- 1 Color per sprite (you can use multiple sprites for more colors)  
- Maximum of 4 sprites per scanline (without having any flickering) 
- Each 8x8 tiles can only use 2 colors per scanline
 

Sprites can change colors in scanline too?

Edited February 17, 2021 by Viny wants to learn how to VCS

[digress]

1 hour ago, Viny wants to learn how to VCS said:

The cvpaint2 not worked, multipaint requires jre 1.8.0_74 and Windows 7 support this version?

java . you need to install the java runtime Its free

[Viny wants to learn how to VCS]

5 minutes ago, digress said:

java. você precisa instalar o Java runtime é gratuito

I want to know if this version has support for Windows 7.

[digress]

just try it. I used under windows 7 for years. So it was working. I'm on windows 10 now though so I can't check it anymore.

[youki]

5 hours ago, Viny wants to learn how to VCS said:

Sprites can change colors in scanline too?

No , not possible with the colecovision.

[Kiwi]

5 hours ago, Viny wants to learn how to VCS said:

I want to know if this version has support for Windows 7.

I have it running under Window 7.  I think I have sun-soft stand alone Java.  Always complaining about wanting to update when it can't...  That's how old it is.
 

1 hour ago, youki said:

No , not possible with the colecovision.

It's very difficult and could be done, chasing the rainbow, Atari 2600 style by detecting collision or 5 on the line flag in the status register, then waste a few cycles and then load in new color data in the sprite att. table, waste a few cycle, load new color into the sprite att. table.  I haven't tried it yet.  I think HERO does this and some homebrew MSX game does it.  Not easy to do and only one or few sprites are only one that could color change. 

[retroillucid]

A good way to learn how CV graphics works is by looking at released games and check each 8x8 tiles
This will gives you a good idea 

Here's an example
 

[youki]

19 minutes ago, Kiwi said:

 

It's very difficult and could be done, chasing the rainbow, Atari 2600 style by detecting collision or 5 on the line flag in the status register, then waste a few cycles and then load in new color data in the sprite att. table, waste a few cycle, load new color into the sprite att. table.  I haven't tried it yet.  I think HERO does this and some homebrew MSX game does it.  Not easy to do and only one or few sprites are only one that could color change. 

Yes, as described in that thread :  

But it is hardly exploitable in a game i think.   Not as on Atari VCS or a C64.

 

[Viny wants to learn how to VCS]

7 hours ago, Kiwi said:

I have it running under Window 7.  I think I have sun-soft stand alone Java.  Always complaining about wanting to update when it can't...  That's how old it is.
 

It's very difficult and could be done, chasing the rainbow, Atari 2600 style by detecting collision or 5 on the line flag in the status register, then waste a few cycles and then load in new color data in the sprite att. table, waste a few cycle, load new color into the sprite att. table.  I haven't tried it yet.  I think HERO does this and some homebrew MSX game does it.  Not easy to do and only one or few sprites are only one that could color change. 

Thanks, the multipaint runned!

[Tony Cruise]

4 hours ago, Viny wants to learn how to VCS said:

Thanks, the multipaint runned!

My tool will work on Windows 7 as long as you install .Net 4.7.2 or greater.

[Viny wants to learn how to VCS]

Uh... I know that it's too much time since this topic has been created, but, how many 128x128 pages can sprite chr have in rom?

Edited June 15, 2021 by Viny wants to learn how to VCS

[Pixelboy]

10 minutes ago, Viny wants to learn how to VCS said:

Uh... I know that it's too much time since this topic has been created, but, how many 128x128 pages can sprite chr have in rom?

Your question doesn't make sense for the context of the ColecoVision. You can define as many sprite patterns as you want within the cartridge (there is no notion of "pages") but the real limit is in the video RAM: You can load up to 64 16x16 sprite patterns in VRAM, if I remember correctly.

 

[Kiwi]

21 minutes ago, Viny wants to learn how to VCS said:

Uh... I know that it's too much time since this topic has been created, but, how many 128x128 pages can sprite chr have in rom?

You can have as much sprite data as cartridge space allowed.  You have to load the sprites to VRAM.  However, the VDP can only see 2 KB of sprites chr in VRAM so only 64 sprites are accessible.  One way to have more sprites chr is to redefine the sprite chr at a cost of CPU time and risking NMI corruption if loading too much of it in one frame. Or load a page of sprites into unused VRAM memory and you can swap between them like NES CHR-ROM without the cost of CPU time.  I used this trick in Mean Santa. 2 pages are the indoor area sprites with it switching VRAM bank to do the animation for the dog/toys, and the 3rd page for the outdoor area.  So I don't have to reload large amount of data between house load during the game, plus avoiding stopping the music player to disable NMI.

[Viny wants to learn how to VCS]

1 hour ago, Pixelboy said:

Sua pergunta não faz sentido para o contexto do ColecoVision. Você pode definir quantos padrões de sprite quiser dentro do cartucho (não há noção de "páginas"), mas o limite real está na RAM de vídeo: Você pode carregar até 64 padrões de sprite 16x16 em VRAM, se bem me lembro.

 

 

49 minutes ago, Kiwi said:

Você pode ter tantos dados de sprite quanto espaço de cartucho permitido. Você tem que carregar os sprites para VRAM. No entanto, o VDP pode ver apenas 2 KB de sprites chr em VRAM, então apenas 64 sprites estão acessíveis. Uma maneira de ter mais sprites chr é redefinir o sprite chr ao custo de tempo de CPU e arriscar a corrupção do NMI se carregar muito dele em um frame. Ou carregue uma página de sprites na memória VRAM não utilizada e você pode alternar entre eles como NES CHR-ROM sem o custo de tempo de CPU. Eu usei esse truque no Papai Noel Malvado. 2 páginas são os sprites da área interna com ele trocando o banco VRAM para fazer a animação para o cachorro / brinquedos, e a 3ª página para a área externa. Portanto, não preciso recarregar uma grande quantidade de dados entre o carregamento da casa durante o jogo, além de evitar parar o reprodutor de música para desativar o NMI.

It means that I can store 192 sprites in rom?

[Pixelboy]

39 minutes ago, Viny wants to learn how to VCS said:

 

It means that I can store 192 sprites in rom?

Yes, if that is your goal.