+Random Terrain Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 Take a look at this from Wikipedia: Quote Super Breakout was released for the Atari VCS (later renamed the Atari 2600) the same year as the arcade game, 1978, but in full color instead of black and white with a color overlay. 1978? Atari 2600 Super Breakout was released in 1981 at Sears and 1982 for the rest of us. Atari 2600 Breakout was released in 1978. If you're a trusted editor at Wikipedia who can actually change things without the incorrect information being put back in, please do so. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 You can do too. But you have to provide good evidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Random Terrain Posted February 21, 2021 Author Share Posted February 21, 2021 Just now, Thomas Jentzsch said: You can do too. But you have to provide good evidence. Is this good enough? randomterrain.com/atari-2600-memories-history-1982.html#super_breakout Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 (edited) You have to prove two things, Sears first in October 1981 and rest of the world in January 1982. So for each you should add the dedicated links which prove that. Historical ones are definitely much preferred here, but you can add more references if you like. Also you should point at the relevant info, e.g. where to find the date of the Sears catalog. Edited February 21, 2021 by Thomas Jentzsch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Random Terrain Posted February 21, 2021 Author Share Posted February 21, 2021 21 minutes ago, Thomas Jentzsch said: You have to prove two things, Sears first in October 1981 and rest of the world in January 1982. So for each you should add the dedicated links which prove that. Historical ones are definitely much preferred here, but you can add more references if you like. Also you should point at the relevant info, e.g. where to find the date of the Sears catalog. The link I posted has links and embedded newspaper ads. Where is Wikipedia's proof of a 1978 release date for Atari 2600 Super Breakout? I think some lazy guy got Atari 2600 Super Breakout confused with Atari 2600 Breakout: https://www.randomterrain.com/atari-2600-memories-history-1978.html#breakout Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 Just now, Random Terrain said: The link I posted has links and embedded newspaper ads. Yes, but instead of making the reviewers search through the links, you should prepare the links for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
high voltage Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 Wikipedia wrong about lots. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 In general Wikipedia is a very comprehensive and reliable source of information. Comparative tests with traditional encyclopedias have proven that. But of course not every detail can be correct, especially in niche topics. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Random Terrain Posted February 22, 2021 Author Share Posted February 22, 2021 15 hours ago, Thomas Jentzsch said: Yes, but instead of making the reviewers search through the links, you should prepare the links for them. Like I posted above, why didn't the person who originally put the incorrect information on the page have to jump through 500 flaming hoops to prove it? If they did, the page wouldn't have to be corrected now. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiddlepaddle Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 If you could buy a shrinkwrapped WP, it would be at the dollar store. Only those who are extremely motivated will correct things, and many editors are busy grinding axes. It has been co-opted by various ideological and commercial interests, is NOT accurate, and never will be. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 3 hours ago, Random Terrain said: Like I posted above, why didn't the person who originally put the incorrect information on the page have to jump through 500 flaming hoops to prove it? If they did, the page wouldn't have to be corrected now. The wrong info was added July 14th, 2018 with a link to AtariMania. There Super Breakout is listed as "Year 1978". Looks like AtariMania is generally accepted as a reliable source of information. But obviously it is wrong (probably because the label says (C)1978, any idea why?) and the error replicated to Wikipedia too. I suggest to contact AtariMania first and make them correct their error. That should avoid discussion with the people at Wikipedia. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlsson Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 If you look at the boxes and instructions for what Atarimania lists as the original version, it very clearly says 1981 in both cases so most probably it was a typo that has propagated. That means the original reference used by Wikipedia should be good enough if you look at the small print and ignore what the actual listing on the Atarimania page says. Perhaps pinging in @Rom Hunter here would help. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Hunter Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 47 minutes ago, carlsson said: If you look at the boxes and instructions for what Atarimania lists as the original version, it very clearly says 1981 in both cases so most probably it was a typo that has propagated. That means the original reference used by Wikipedia should be good enough if you look at the small print and ignore what the actual listing on the Atarimania page says. Perhaps pinging in @Rom Hunter here would help. I think the problem here is that release years get confused with copyright years on the cart's front label. Because of all the different label variations, our database uses the front label copyright year on their VCS game pages as a reference for collectors. The copyright year on Super Breakout is 1978 in this page: http://www.atarimania.com/game-atari-2600-vcs-super-breakout_7848.html 1987 on this page: http://www.atarimania.com/game-atari-2600-vcs-super-breakout_18367.html and 1988 on this page: http://www.atarimania.com/game-atari-2600-vcs-super-breakout_18368.html But it's official release year is 1981 for the Sears version and 1982 for the Atari version. You can see this in my ROM collection as well: Super Breakout (Paddle) (1982 - 1981) (Atari, Carol Shaw, Nick 'Sandy Maiwald' Turner - Sears) (CX2608 - 49-75165) ~ 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlsson Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 (edited) Aha, so due to the arcade game was copyrighted in 1978 and Atari of course used the same copyright reference on the home versions, all versions end up to be from 1978 (at least in Wikipedia-land)? For fun, we can compare with the Atari 8-bit version which has an original copyright year of 1979, but in the XL/XE rerelease Atari decided to change it to 1987 to not look like they were re-releasing an eight year old game. Of course as noted above they the very same thing about the 2600 version. Perhaps that is/was common practice to advance the copyright year to reflect the latest release instead of using the original one? Nowadays it is common to see Copyright 2010-2021 on e.g. websites that are living documents, but perhaps back then a copyright could only be established at a given point in time, not a range of years? I'm not even sure what that means, since copyrights tend to last for 70 years or more anyway so no need to revitalize it over and over except for showing customers that you're current. Edited February 22, 2021 by carlsson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 18 minutes ago, Rom Hunter said: I think the problem here is that release years get confused with copyright years on the cart's front label. So is the 1978 a bug or not? If not, then you should make obvious that this is not the release year. Else it should be fixed, IMO. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waynel Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 It's Wikipedia. You're better off asking six people at a bus stop and going with the majority. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 4 hours ago, Reaperducer said: It's Wikipedia. You're better off asking six people at a bus stop and going with the majority. Before making broad statements, have you ever taken the time to really understand how Wikipedia works? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlsson Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 It doesn't seem like anyone tried to correct the 2600 date yet and got it reverted. I still think a change where one points to box and manual scans at Atarimania, and makes a note that the copyright date given on the actual cartridge label refers to the game per se, not the 2600 version would be enough. I don't know if AtariAge forums is a reliable source, but Rom Hunter's post above that Atarimania uses the game's copyright year instead of the publication year in the database should be enough to nullify what the web page part of Atarimania claims, in terms of Wikipedia's reliability. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Pat Brady Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 Fixed with citation. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asaki Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 I wonder if, also, maybe they intended to release it earlier and ended up postponing it? I don't know how much the serial numbers actually mean, but Super Breakout is CX2608, and Breakout is CX2622. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubersaurus Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 I have a number of newspaper ads listed on my site that indicate when Breakout and Super Breakout dropped. https://www.atariarchive.org/atari-vcs-game-release-dates/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlsson Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 Well, that change to Wikipedia lasted exactly 116 minutes before it got reverted because "All major sources say 1978 for the VCS port". I'm not sure which are the major sources except for Atarimania, which clearly and on purpose lists a different date than when the game was released. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Random Terrain Posted March 2, 2021 Author Share Posted March 2, 2021 7 hours ago, carlsson said: Well, that change to Wikipedia lasted exactly 116 minutes before it got reverted because "All major sources say 1978 for the VCS port". I'm not sure which are the major sources except for Atarimania, which clearly and on purpose lists a different date than when the game was released. I guess these aren't major sources: https://www.randomterrain.com/atari-2600-memories-history-1982.html#super_breakout https://atariage.com/magazines/magazine_page.php?MagazineID=4&CurrentPage=15 http://www.atarimania.com/pubs/hi_res/pub_Red_Hot.jpg https://archive.org/details/analog-computing-magazine-05/page/n40/mode/1up?view=theater https://archive.org/details/starlog_magazine-058/page/n9/mode/1up?view=theater https://www.newspapers.com/clip/71651108/atari-2600-introducing-super-breakout/ https://www.newspapers.com/clip/71651254/atari-2600-super-breakout-now-in-stock/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youxia Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 So now hopefully @Pat Brady, or other person with access can go and post this list and argumentation there. That's how it works, I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Allan Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 So the source to the Atari VCS release dates links to a site that just says "Super Breakout © 1978 Atari.". That's the source? I am going to guess that MAYBE the person who changed it back to '1978' on Wikipedia is connected to www.arcade-history.com. Just a hunch. Sorry, Wikipedia, for all its good it may do, does just as much damage. Remember, Wikipedia themselves say that they themselves are not a reliable source of information. It's the source links at the bottom of each entry that is the important information. And obviously it has completely failed here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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