2600 (NTSC) RGB => OSSC Recommended Settings

[Ikrananka]

I have an NTSC  2600 Jr. modded with a Tim Worthington RGB video mod that I pass to an OSSC to get HDMI to my monitor.  This image from this setup looks great to my eyes and taste (not to everyone's taste which I totally get).  Recently, I've been exploring the 2600's game library and I found quite a few games that didn't work well with this setup using the default OSSC settings.  So, I started searching the Internet for answers.  Unfortunately, I really didn't find them.  The Classic Console Upscaler wiki states that both H=PLL pre and post coast should be set to 3.  However, I have so far only found ONE game (Air Raid ‐ PAL) that benefits from these settings and even then the game is still unplayable.  Even BuckoA51, who recommended those settings, admits he only tested this on a few common games.  I also found a good discussion on the VGP forums where user chandlerdepMODE highlighted some additional settings that helped with getting some games to work.

 

So, I decided to explore this in more detail to try and figure out what settings do in fact work best.  So far, I've worked my way through around 35 to 40 games and the results are quite interesting.  I've found that only a few settings have a beneficial effect to get problematic games working.  Unfortunately, I have been unable to find a suitable combination of OSSC settings to fix some games and they remain unplayable.

 

Attached are my findings so far, along with my recommended OSSC settings for widest game compatibility.  I plan on testing more games and adding to the table in the attached.  I'll also update the recommended settings as necessary.

 

If you have a similar setup and want to contribute to this then please let me know.  What settings do you use and why?

 

Hope this helps.

2600 RGB OSSC Settings.pdf

[Ikrananka]

I thought it might be better to share this as a Google sheet, so here it is:

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XUqZOmy9LsffDte8LxgFAvk0jNz3tHgzdosF-UPLEa0/edit?usp=sharing

[+ZeroPage Homebrew]

If only developers had stuck to the recommended guidelines of 262 scanlines, it's literally the first sentence in the manual. I have the same issue using my Framemeister, it can withstand minor variances in the scanline count but if it jumps too far or too often it cuts out the screen and makes the game unplayable. Such is the struggle playing games meant for CRTs that have a TON more tolerance than digital equipment.

 

- James

 

[+ZeroPage Homebrew]

Also, here's another list of scanline counts for your reference. It's not as detailed as yours but you can possible use it for reference or incorporate it into yours?

 

- James

[Thomas Jentzsch]

14 minutes ago, ZeroPage Homebrew said:

Such is the struggle playing games meant for CRTs that have a TON more tolerance than digital equipment.

Yes, and for a developer this allows some fine tuning. E.g. display more scanlines or slightly change the game speed when not using fractional math.

 

The problem is that modern equipment isn't tolerant anymore. Not vice versa.  

[Ikrananka]

41 minutes ago, ZeroPage Homebrew said:

Also, here's another list of scanline counts for your reference. It's not as detailed as yours but you can possible use it for reference or incorporate it into yours?

 

- James

Thanks, I did come across that before.  It looks like that was derived from both the Z26 and Stella emulators.

[Ikrananka]

47 minutes ago, ZeroPage Homebrew said:

If only developers had stuck to the recommended guidelines of 262 scanlines, it's literally the first sentence in the manual. I have the same issue using my Framemeister, it can withstand minor variances in the scanline count but if it jumps too far or too often it cuts out the screen and makes the game unplayable. Such is the struggle playing games meant for CRTs that have a TON more tolerance than digital equipment.

Thank goodness for the talented programmers we have today who occasionally correct these issues.  I've found the 262 scanlines fix for Moon Patrol eliminates all issues with the OSSC.

[+DrVenkman]

The RetroTink models have the same problems with non-standard scanlines. Some games just feel off at certain point (Empire Strikes Back gets a little glitchy or non-smooth when you blow up an AT-AT), some are entirely unplayable (Battle Zone) and some just give you a black screen and a complaint from your HDMI-equipped TV about "Unsupported Resolution" (Starmaster). *sigh*

[Ikrananka]

16 minutes ago, DrVenkman said:

The RetroTink models have the same problems with non-standard scanlines. Some games just feel off at certain point (Empire Strikes Back gets a little glitchy or non-smooth when you blow up an AT-AT), some are entirely unplayable (Battle Zone) and some just give you a black screen and a complaint from your HDMI-equipped TV about "Unsupported Resolution" (Starmaster). *sigh*

I suspected the RetroTink would be like that.  That's one of the nice things about the OSSC (and Framemeister amongst others) are that they are user configurable - if you have the right signal to feed them.

 

I managed to get Battlezone working flawlessly with the OSSC by bumping up the Vsync threshold setting so was pleased about that.

 

I'll have to check Empire Strikes Back and Starmaster and add them to my table.

[Ikrananka]

21 hours ago, DrVenkman said:

The RetroTink models have the same problems with non-standard scanlines. Some games just feel off at certain point (Empire Strikes Back gets a little glitchy or non-smooth when you blow up an AT-AT), some are entirely unplayable (Battle Zone) and some just give you a black screen and a complaint from your HDMI-equipped TV about "Unsupported Resolution" (Starmaster). *sigh*

So, as I managed to get 2 out of 3 of them working 100% with the OSSC:

 

Battlezone : set  Vsync threshold to 19.53

Starmaster : set Hsync tolerance to 12.15

 

With Empire Strikes Back no matter what I've tried so far, the screen blanks briefly when an AT-AT is destroyed, i.e. during the rapid colour cycling that occurs in that event.  I checked this out in Stella and there is no reported change in scanlines or frequency during this, and my OSSC shows no loss of sync.  So the problem seems to come down to whatever programming trickery was used to get the colour cycling that CRTs have no issue with but that modern LCDs just don't like.

 

I've updated my Google spreadsheet accordingly.

[+MrZarniwoop]

Thanks for your guide! I've found it helpful in setting up an OSSC with my light sixer 2600RGB. So far, I'm incredibly pleased with the 2600RGB/OSSC combo.

 

I notice you use Line2x mode, which also works for my setup. However, the picture in Line5x seems substantially sharper, and completely fills the screen naturally in Line5x 1920x1080 mode. In reading the OSSC forums, that mode seems, in general, to be intended to be the best zero-lag upscaled picture for 240p sources like the 2600RGB. I've tweaked some of the other settings too to better match and center the picture on my Sony X800H TV, along with timing differences in Line2x vs Line 5x.

 

Curious if you can get Talvisota - a sniper game working on your setup? That's a new homebrew that isn't working on my 2600RGB/OSSC setup.

[orange808]

The most dependable line doubler for this should be an old Faroudja machine.  My second pick would be a DVDO iScan vp50pro.  The GBS with custom firmware might also work well, but I haven't tried it.

 

 

 

Edited April 21, 2021 by orange808
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