emkay Posted February 28, 2021 Author Share Posted February 28, 2021 27 minutes ago, youxia said: If you need to ask, then I can't really help you. Elite Frontier has properly filled objects and it's a slideshow. On Amiga. And coding some voxel objects in a demo is a far cry from producing an entire game using this tech. Are you really interested in this? The Atari shows much more in several games than just a single rotating object. 27 minutes ago, youxia said: Anyway, this is going nowhere, like in 99% of these kinda threads - which are mostly a weird mix of wishful thinking and goalpost shifting - so I'll leave you to it. The sense of the thread is not about 3D games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARIO130XE Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 22 hours ago, emkay said: Again... "That's why I don't want reading MKs opinions anymore. In his opinion, the A8 is the best 8bit-machine to have 1st person shooter in GR7 mode... bla bla bla... But I think it's still CRAP!!!" It's all crap...? Starraiders Wayout Capture the Flag Encounter Dimension X Rescue on Fractalus Last Starfighter Eidolon Ballblazer Yoomp Space Harrier Project-M So it makes me wonder why someone bought an Atari , if the mindblowing releases (back then), weren't the cause for buying the dedicated machine? Yep, except for a very few titles, these are all technically not really good games for my taste. Especially the inacceptable frame rate. Fortunately, we all have different tastes. Personally, I tend to like games that have higher-resolution graphics with lots of colors. Henrys House (extreme clever leveldesign and use of colors), Frogger, Frogger II, RGB, Dimos Dungeon, Dimos Quest (booth games have tons of colors, moving objects and full screen scrolling), Jet Boot Jack, Crownland, Crystal Castle, Flip Flop, Schreckenstein (one of the best piece of game code), Cavelord, Speluncer, Brundles, Starball, Bosconian, Poleposition, Beef Drop, Donkey Kong, Dk Junior , Popeye, Hobgoblin, Bristles, Dropzone, Dig Dug, Joust, Nadral, Red Max, River Raid, Submission, Unicum, Zorro ... and so on. Regarding your opinion '3D should be THE MAIN of the A8 gaming scene': I think the low frame rate makes every game in this category unplayable. Have you ever wondered why a shot hits a base in Fractalus, even though you shot far off the mark? I think, because you can't aim at all with the jumping like movement of the base in 3 frames from left to right across the screen. The game would be extremly frustrating. Each of your opinions about games on the A8 is completely different from mine. Any conversation with you on this forum ends in trouble. And that's exactly my reason, I NOT want any discussion with YOU. I am not claiming anything, I just ask, after giving many examples, maybe other peoples having my point of view, perhaps people with programming experience, which you do not have, that's why I have requested YOU too, not to answer my question. I am thinking, that really good scrolling and pretty, colorful jump n run games or platformer are possible on the A8 computers, if there is a clever level design and talented graphic designers. But you always have talked down the WIP of Wonderboy or Prince of Persia for example. You claimed it's all impossible on the A8. Another prove of your unknowing ignorance and arrogance. You are always juggling your facts about frames, cycles graphic-modes and scanlines. But hundreds of demos and games have disproved you and have showed that's many more is possible on the A8 than you know from your books. I think all of the 3D games on 8 bit computers sucks because you can't play them 'smooth'. So please accept, I am NOT interested in your opinion. You don't get it, huh? 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted February 28, 2021 Author Share Posted February 28, 2021 49 minutes ago, MARIO130XE said: Yep, except for a very few titles, these are all technically not really good games for my taste. Especially the inacceptable frame rate. Fortunately, we all have different tastes. Personally, I tend to like games that have higher-resolution graphics with lots of colors. Henrys House (extreme clever leveldesign and use of colors), Frogger, Frogger II, RGB, Dimos Dungeon, Dimos Quest (booth games have tons of colors, moving objects and full screen scrolling), Jet Boot Jack, Crownland, Crystal Castle, Flip Flop, Schreckenstein (one of the best piece of game code), Cavelord, Speluncer, Brundles, Starball, Bosconian, Poleposition, Beef Drop, Donkey Kong, Dk Junior , Popeye, Hobgoblin, Bristles, Dropzone, Dig Dug, Joust, Nadral, Red Max, River Raid, Submission, Unicum, Zorro ... and so on. Which of those games show complex worlds as in Turrican? 49 minutes ago, MARIO130XE said: Regarding your opinion '3D should be THE MAIN of the A8 gaming scene': I think the low frame rate makes every game in this category unplayable. Have you ever wondered why a shot hits a base in Fractalus, even though you shot far off the mark? I think, because you can't aim at all with the jumping like movement of the base in 3 frames from left to right across the screen. The game would be extremly frustrating. The shooting wasn't built in from start. It was just some addition afterwards. 49 minutes ago, MARIO130XE said: Each of your opinions about games on the A8 is completely different from mine. Any conversation with you on this forum ends in trouble. And that's exactly my reason, I NOT want any discussion with YOU. A discussion would not endup in trouble, if it was a discussion. 49 minutes ago, MARIO130XE said: I am not claiming anything, I just ask, after giving many examples, maybe other peoples having my point of view, perhaps people with programming experience, which you do not have, that's why I have requested YOU too, not to answer my question. I am thinking, that really good scrolling and pretty, colorful jump n run games or platformer are possible on the A8 computers, if there is a clever level design and talented graphic designers. But you always have talked down the WIP of Wonderboy I didn't "talk" down the project of Wonderboy for the Atari. It's what they did for themselves. Particular this shifted scrolling will end up in a chaos, because it looks faster at the start, but there is a moment where all RAM has to be cleaned up. Also, they claimed to bring "Arcade better than C64" in. But the 1st try ended already with missing 8 way scrolling (which is strongly recommended) , and 3 moving objects where about 9 can be on the screen. 49 minutes ago, MARIO130XE said: or Prince of Persia for example. And this is a lie. I wrote that the C64 version cannot be adapted as José Pereira wanted. I also wrote that a rearrangement of the graphics will be needed to fit to the 8bit graphics. And then years later the BBC Version was done. And this is working. I never doubted that . It was only the question how engaged the coder is to do the PMg overlay. 49 minutes ago, MARIO130XE said: You claimed it's all impossible on the A8. Another prove of your unknowing ignorance and arrogance. You are always juggling your facts about frames, cycles graphic-modes and scanlines. But hundreds of demos and games have disproved you and have showed that's many more is possible on the A8 than you know from your books. bla.. 49 minutes ago, MARIO130XE said: I think all of the 3D games on 8 bit computers sucks because you can't play them 'smooth'. So please accept, I am NOT interested in your opinion. You don't get it, huh? I'm not interested in your opinion as well. But don't spread lies. OK? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted February 28, 2021 Author Share Posted February 28, 2021 Even funnier... 1 hour ago, MARIO130XE said: You are always juggling your facts about frames, cycles graphic-modes and scanlines. But hundreds of demos and games have disproved you and have showed that's many more is possible on the A8 than you know from your books. I think all of the 3D games on 8 bit computers sucks because you can't play them 'smooth'. So please accept, I am NOT interested in your opinion. You don't get it, huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
high voltage Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 This thread is drug-related, isn't it? 8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted February 28, 2021 Author Share Posted February 28, 2021 6 minutes ago, high voltage said: This thread is drug-related, isn't it? Things are more complex as you might see 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted February 28, 2021 Author Share Posted February 28, 2021 Hey José Pereira, as you read and put your special messages into this thread. How about showing me exactly ONE game that proves me wrong, which is there and I was stating "not possible" . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted February 28, 2021 Author Share Posted February 28, 2021 (edited) This is what I wrote back then in the Prince of Persia thread: " The Apple version should fit best as a "source". The Graphics could be adjusted to colour mode. As game mechanics often get repeated, there could be fixed rules for PM underlay/overlay, saving 3 colours for every moving object and a distinguished color setting (moving objects get a "black/ a common Playfield colour, and a specific PM colour. So "masking" is partly done , using the 1 byte boundaries for the Playfield graphics , and temporary overlays cover PM using the priority settings. Walking "behind" a pillar costs no CPU, as the bytes where objects stand in front, simply don't need to be drawn. So it saves actually CPU time. Same with traps... what's behind, has to be calculated for bit shifting. what's in Front of the protagonist, needs no additional handling. The "depth" illusion gets perfect..... And, I don't see where had been the problem. adjusting the bitmap graphics for that. " For some special fun of our special group here in the forums, things derailed more and more. Ending up in particular "Potatohead" ran wild on attacking me for no reason. Technical details went irrelevant. Actually I'm almost describing the Prince of Persia as Rensoup was converting it to the Atari. So where have I been wrong back then in 2013? @MARIO130XE Edited February 28, 2021 by emkay 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam1977 Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 On 2/27/2021 at 8:06 PM, emkay said: Learn to read, then post. Thanks. I wish I knew what your reply was, but the thing is I can't read... and you can't code ? Maybe you should start your own Atari forum? It might be a lonely place though with only yourself as a member ? 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faicuai Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 6 hours ago, MARIO130XE said: Yep, except for a very few titles, these are all technically not really good games for my taste. Especially the inacceptable frame rate. Are you including StarRaiders in that statement? And Yoomp!, too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathy Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 Hello Adam 2 hours ago, adam1977 said: Maybe you should start your own Atari forum? It might be a lonely place though with only yourself as a member ? But everybody on that forum would agree with him. Sincerely Mathy 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted March 1, 2021 Author Share Posted March 1, 2021 (edited) 7 hours ago, adam1977 said: I wish I knew what your reply was, but the thing is I can't read... and you can't code ? Maybe you should start your own Atari forum? It might be a lonely place though with only yourself as a member ? The funny part is that those protagonists who put me on their ignore list, dropped derailing postings immediately. And communication with people became more civilized. Could you please put me on your ignore list? Edited March 1, 2021 by emkay 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted March 1, 2021 Author Share Posted March 1, 2021 6 hours ago, Faicuai said: Are you including StarRaiders in that statement? And Yoomp!, too? One of those miracles is that people claim "3D games playable" on the C64. Rescue on Fractalus... (3-4 fps on C64), Stunt Car Racer ... The Atari running them 50 to 100% faster, is an inacceptable framerate? Out Run (alike which version) runs mostly on character set movement resolution. People state "great games" on the C64. What ? Character movement based games on the Atari? Its a "no go" ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazzspeed Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 I personally never liked faux 3D games on any 8 bit machine. They always seemed tacky to me. Even on the Amiga I didn't like them in the day, it wasn't until I played Doom on my 33Mhz 486DX that I began to see potential in the genre (as I'm sure many others did). Thing is: I didn't see potential in the PC as a platform as Windows 3.1 was rubbish, AmigaOS crapped all over it. In order to play Doom I had to launch it from DOS, made me wonder what the point was in relation to Windows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam1977 Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 3 hours ago, emkay said: The funny part is that those protagonists who put me on their ignore list, dropped derailing postings immediately. And communication with people became more civilized. Could you please put me on your ignore list? You like to derail threads and you don't like it when someone else does it to you do you? So no, i'm not going to add you to my ignore list, you have a massive ego and you need people to bring you down off your imaginary throne; take the pole out of your keister buddy and you'll get along fine with most people on here ? 8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 Amazing, he derailed his NOT derail thread... But it was always going to happen.. Sad but true... 3 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 10 minutes ago, Mclaneinc said: Amazing, he derailed his NOT derail thread... But it was always going to happen.. Sad but true... Even sadder, he has absolutely zero ability to see when he is doing it, but cries foul the instant someone else does the same thing. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted March 1, 2021 Author Share Posted March 1, 2021 5 hours ago, adam1977 said: You like to derail threads and you don't like it when someone else does it to you do you? So no, i'm not going to add you to my ignore list, you have a massive ego and you need people to bring you down off your imaginary throne; take the pole out of your keister buddy and you'll get along fine with most people on here ? If you only could read posts, you might recognize that I'm not derailing threads. Show me one . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted March 1, 2021 Author Share Posted March 1, 2021 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Stephen said: Even sadder, he has absolutely zero ability to see when he is doing it, but cries foul the instant someone else does the same thing. Even sadder, he has absolutely zero ability to see when he is doing it, but cries foul the instant someone else does the same thing. Stephen to Mclaineinc This is really spooky. Edited March 1, 2021 by emkay 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted March 1, 2021 Author Share Posted March 1, 2021 7 hours ago, Mazzspeed said: I personally never liked faux 3D games on any 8 bit machine. They always seemed tacky to me. Even on the Amiga I didn't like them in the day, it wasn't until I played Doom on my 33Mhz 486DX that I began to see potential in the genre (as I'm sure many others did). Thing is: I didn't see potential in the PC as a platform as Windows 3.1 was rubbish, AmigaOS crapped all over it. In order to play Doom I had to launch it from DOS, made me wonder what the point was in relation to Windows. I'll never forget the impression when playing Encounter the 1st time. Or Rescue on Fractalus, and well the Jaggi The next similar impression was with Wolf 3D on the PC. Nothing real in between. Platform games like Turrican need also at least a 16 Bit CPU to have the controls and game mechanics running flawless. Using the 8 bits means to move inside a pioneer age . This is still fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam1977 Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 1 hour ago, emkay said: If you only could read posts, you might recognize that I'm not derailing threads. Show me one . I'd love to be able to reply to your reply, but sadly, I can't read. By the way, did you remove that pole from your keister yet? Asking for a friend... ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted March 1, 2021 Author Share Posted March 1, 2021 2 hours ago, adam1977 said: I'd love to be able to reply to your reply, but sadly, I can't read. By the way, did you remove that pole from your keister yet? Asking for a friend... ? Ask him. I borrowed him the pole and didn't get it back. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yautja Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 What kind of a man desecrates a defenseless thread and turns it into a toxically intense ego mayhem? ? But wait... it was intended to be that way, ain't it? ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 4 hours ago, emkay said: 7 hours ago, adam1977 said: By the way, did you remove that pole from your keister yet? Asking for a friend... ? Ask him. I borrowed him the pole and didn't get it back. Why am I envisioning a sick video game here? Maybe even something for the BASIC 10 liners This is something we can all get behind. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilmenit Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 Seems that it's not enough to ignore an user, but it's great that this Forum system is prepared for such "driven by emkay" threads: 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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