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The NOT derail Thread

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1 minute ago, Mclaneinc said:

Topic related...The C64 is nothing to do with Atari but you always keep saying about it...Please, don't use double standards..

And now we are at a point where Mcderailinc. starts the real thing. 

Sorry not this time.

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1 hour ago, ivop said:

That looks very nice! Especially when the broken walls enter the picture. That guy looks like he rushing for the toilet to do a number two ;)

It also seems to use just character rotation or a similar way. 

If no HW-Scrolling is used, it is possible to create a lot layers, and moving objects that don't need to be updated every frame to prevent jitter.

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Could be interesting to see the "software driven" horizontal parallax, moving in hardware driven vertical scrolling in ranges.

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4 minutes ago, emkay said:

Could be interesting to see the "software driven" horizontal parallax, moving in hardware driven vertical scrolling in ranges.

Developer's diary :]

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1 hour ago, Mclaneinc said:

Topic related...The C64 is nothing to do with Atari but you always keep saying about it...Please, don't use double standards..

Not using double standards would require a bit of self awareness which we know is 100% lacking.

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11 minutes ago, Stephen said:

Not using double standards would require a bit of self awareness which we know is 100% lacking.

If you know,  why don't you both  change it?

Selling some Ataris and to know people who might be able to know something about the computer weren't a good basis to judge over others. 

 

 

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The problem for the VIC-II chip when making much more complex and varied graphics in later arcade conversion game engines is 'everything for VIC-II 4bit address memory access must fit in 4 specific 16kb memory areas of RAM'. Sure you can have hi-res overlays on sprites, multiplex the sprites etc but these all mean more animation frames stored in the selected 16kb/64kb RAM area which means less of the 16kb VIC-II area used for sprites can accommodate the memory hungry  screen bitmap modes. What happens then is they can't use an 8kb RAM multi-color bitmap mode (which has to be in the same 16kb location for tiles and sprites defined) so you end up with the utterly rubbish looking multi-color character based mode which is 1kb BUT the restrictions are horrible...3 colours fixed entire screen, 4th colour can only be Acorn BBC Micro type 6 primary colours + black + white palette option. This is why I don't like arcade conversion fixated releases of late 1980s 8bit games. 

 

Renegade 3 is a perfect example of this as a bad idea. NES quality Sprites...5 colour chunky pixel very odd coloured backgrounds which take up 500% more of the screen visually than the sprites! 

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7 hours ago, emkay said:

 

Might be they laugh, because there is some special development going on on the C64 

"Parallaxian"

 

 

 

 

It's all in 320 resolution. 

But , if you have a closer look, you see the hard limits there.

The game is scrolling horizontally and vertically parallax. 

It might look good at the 1st view, but then you might recognize that it only uses 1/3rd of a Display Device. (it's about 138(276) x200 . The exact resolution is hard to determine ) . 

Particular this combination of horizontal and vertical scrolling is directly programmable on the Atari. 

The colorisation is rather flat. Even if you see the depth projection, the color kills it all. 

On the Atari you could use different brightnee steps to enhance the depth impression. 

It isn't possible to have this colorful screen in hires on the Atari, but you can do even more complex scrolling without a border , depending on the display device. 

Modern C64 games are not where anyone should be looking, they are all pretty much shit sorry. Nothing wrong with the parallax on games like Nebulus bonus levels etc or even budget games like Scorpius of the mid-late 1980s. I wouldn't look much past graphics of games like R.I.S.K. on a C64 around 1987 at the latest for good pixel art talent. I think there is some V-scroll new game Zeta Wing or something, that looks well coded too for a modern game but I don't like the graphics that much, they are too 'demo scene' in palette choices.

 

Also early games like Chop Lifter and Bruce Lee are port jobs with no improvements included despite some being possible (sprite should be hi-res single colour ninja in Bruce Lee ditto with Zorro) 

 

There is a demo of a game similar to Lotus II from ST/Amiga for the Commodore Plus/4...this is a better place to look for good homebrew 8bit Commodore game this century. The best of the C64 is in that past. The skill to write 1987 10/10 quality games is gone now if you ask me.

 

People have different ideas, look how horrible the palette of level 1 of Druid is on A8 vs C64, you can't blame a machine for lack artistic talent or coding design no matter what machine. (except Spectrum, always looks shit with color clash)

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See how it works:

 

In Post #104 Mark2008 has an idea and explains it. 

Have a look at the "like" . 

 

fck.thumb.jpg.87bcb56a19a06905052ec65849383879.jpg

 

After that Mark2008 gets unsure . 

I'm explaining things, giving an example. 

 

Check Post #130

 

Digital media doesn't forget.

 

 

@oky2000 

Nothing against you, but we were not talking abou the C64 games in this thread. 

The game was used to show the double tongue of some people here in the forums. 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, emkay said:

Digital media doesn't forget.

53% made me laugh, what an accuracy! :P and of course this statement: I would prove it, but now I don't have a time. Very similar approach to yours :P 

Edited by zbyti
statement
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9 hours ago, oky2000 said:

There is a demo of a game similar to Lotus II from ST/Amiga for the Commodore Plus/4...this is a better place to look for good homebrew 8bit Commodore game this century. The best of the C64 is in that past. The skill to write 1987 10/10 quality games is gone now if you ask me.

[Fires up Sam's Journey]...

 

...Can't say I agree. There's plenty of good software still being released under a number of 8bit platforms including the C64.

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Yeah, Sam's Journey pushes the hardware as hard as anything released back in the day - if not more. It's the same on all the other 8-bit platforms (I assume Atari too), there are plenty of AAA quality modern games. Having 30+ years of time to improve coding skills & techniques certainly helps a bit with that ;)

 

But I think people sometimes get too hung up on squeezing the last bit of juice out of the tech  (at least in threads like this). You don't need 100 sprites and 17 parallax layers to make a good game. Just think of Shadow Of the Beast for Amiga...very pretty, but the gameplay is not much to write home about.  If you have a clever idea and good design you can make some amazing games without the fx fireworks, eg Millie & Molly.

 

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All bias aside, Sam's Journey is amazing fun and impressively coded. Don't let bias stop you from enjoying an impressive 8bit game. If you don't have a C64, install VICE and give it a go.

 

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Posted (edited)

As I always say, go where the good games are, don't limit yourself ever...I love my Atari but there's very creative people who have different ideas on lots of platforms...

Edited by Mclaneinc
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22 minutes ago, Mclaneinc said:

As I always say, go where the good games are, don't limit yourself ever...I love my Atari but there's very creative people who have different ideas on lots of platforms...

100%. Even some unlikely 8bit systems, not optimised for gaming whatsoever, have some very enjoyable titles with little to no color whatsoever!

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Yup, I played some cracking games on a ZX81...Not exactly thought of as a stellar games machine but the programmers didn't let limits bother them..

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4 minutes ago, Mazzspeed said:

100%. Even some unlikely 8bit systems, not optimised for gaming whatsoever, have some very enjoyable titles with little to no color whatsoever!

i.e. Zork, used on a Marconi System 80 used to carry out in-circuit testing of PCB'S (obviously not 8bit) :)

 

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4 minutes ago, TGB1718 said:

i.e. Zork, used on a Marconi System 80 used to carry out in-circuit testing of PCB'S (obviously not 8bit) :)

 

Zork is great fun no matter what the platform. I love adventure style games and the more obscure the platform the better, wheel out the PDP11 baby!

 

8 minutes ago, Mclaneinc said:

Yup, I played some cracking games on a ZX81...Not exactly thought of as a stellar games machine but the programmers didn't let limits bother them..

As I stated earlier, when you consider what the coders had to work with, games on the ZX81 are really impressive.

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24 minutes ago, Mazzspeed said:

I love adventure style games and the more obscure the platform the better

I even played Lunar Lander on a Teletype terminal Circa 1976

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I still like Drol ;) no custom chips used... ;) (ok...except linear ANTIC E) or Centipede 5200.

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The games are as good as the coders creativity, don't look for limitations, look for possibilities, alternatives and most of all, playability. And here's the rub, I get labelled a thread derailer yet I constantly encourage, support and welcome our devs and regardless I'll carry on doing that but what we have here is one person who constantly is critical of the ways things are done, rarely is it done in a constructively critical way, more snipes and yet he gets support for this. I got a silly comment about selling the machines and knowing people in the scene but I never claim to be a supremo, quite the opposite, I don't see myself as important, I'm just a little cog who likes to see people encouraged, get people invited to join, welcome new people so they know its a great site..Hardly a huge ego..

 

I just love the whole retro scene and I encourage people to try new systems so they can find alternative great software but at my heart I'm an Atari guy but I detest things where we try and find the best machine, it usually leads to bickering, just enjoy your machines, you will find great games and poor games, just enjoy the goodness...

 

If this is classed as derailing the thread then I think we are losing the plot about what a free talking community is about, yes you will get some off topic banter but how many times have you seen the off topic stuff lead to really enjoyable ON topic stuff.

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2 minutes ago, youxia said:

 

Yep, does not look stunning but it plays great in regard of the machine..Top stuff..

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Posted (edited)

btw. I touched many system now in my 30 years "retro love for 8bit systems (ok...16bit))"... and once you felt in love with those old ancient machines you see in each of them challenges and beauty. Doesn't matter if being VIC20, A800, C64 or even 5200 or Amiga....

 

I learned esp. on the C64... coming from A8 you love certain things... (e.g. Color RAM, Highres resoluton for everything (sprites, scrolling), SID) but there are fuckings there, too... (16k VIC bank limitations, weird bitmap mode, slow 6510 etc etc etc). but that's the fun. like puzzling.

 

PS... did someone has information why the fucking hell the A8 has 128 chars instead of 256?

 

 

 

Edited by Heaven/TQA
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