HSC18 Round 4: FROGGER

[Gury]

Slow: 62850, Fast: 16100

 

[carlsson]

Actually I found a Digit Press interview with Steve Kranish that explains it all. At first, John Harris had made the Sierra On-Line version, a 13K game. Up till then, Parker Bros had only focused on making a 2600 version of Frogger, but since they held the cartridge rights they wanted to release it on the A8 too. Apparently neither Sierra nor John did mind licensing the game to Parker Bros, except of course it was too big to fit into an 8K cartridge so it was up to Steve to disassemble it, make cuts and optimizations at the same time Dawn Stockbridge changed the graphics slightly. Near the end of the project, Steve and John met once.

 

Per that story, it would seem that the Parker Bros cartridge version is the redux version of John Harris tape/disk version and explains why the two are so similar - they're based on the same code but the cartridge makes optimizations.

[Deteacher]

Fast:  17,420!

[carlsson]

Per the above story about the first SoL & PB versions, I noticed the comment that the source code was lost early on. I've read speculations about the second SoL version by Chuck Benton (which also got ported to the C64), if his A8 version ever was sold, when and what form. Rob at Talkspot posted an article about that Sierra On-Line may have unsure if John Harris would deliver on time, so they put Chuck to work on a version in parallel and eventually released it.

 

Now combined with the interview with Steve Kranish, that indicates that the PB version (8K) was based on John's game (13-16K), it would suggest that Chuck's game (19K) was developed before that, but not finished when Parker Bros asked them about licensing. Otherwise Sierra On-Line could have steered Chuck into making an 8K cartridge game (optimizing away half of the code and data!) on contract for Parker Bros instead of having a third team (Steve & Dawn) adapting John's game.

 

What I would think happened was that Sierra over time wanted to make some changes or fixes, and since they didn't have sources to John's game any longer, they contracted Chuck who anyway was porting Frogger to other format(s) to make a new version that they would have more access to. I don't know how the contract between John and SoL looked like, he is mentioned as a freelancer, or if it had even expired. The second best option would of course be to knock on Parker Bros' door, asking if Sierra could obtain Steve's disassembled and reworked sources but probably they would not have been quite as willing to share assets back and forth.

[Caco]

SLOW: 38060

[carlsson]

13 hours ago, MrTrust said:

Apparently, the PB version was subbed out to Roklan?

I wondered about this.

 

GDRI has a page about Roklan and which games they developed. On the A8, it lists a possibly unreleased or not archived game called Mathematics Action Games - Frog Jump. Furthermore, the GDRI page writes that Roklan made the official Frogger ports for Intellivision and VIC-20. In the DP interview with Steve Kranish, he mentions Parker Brothers several times but never mentions Roklan, which I take as a sign of misinformation (including a comment on Atarimania) that Roklan would've made the Parker Brothers version of Frogger while he pretty much tells the story how they (in-house) adapted John Harris' version from Sierra On-Line.

[+therealbountybob]

 

On 3/8/2021 at 9:01 PM, graywest said:

You guys are posting some killer scores. I've had a hard time breaking through my previous best, especially on fast.

 

Same here, I just cannot keep it together even with all my frogs ready for the last screen.

 

I've updated the current standings with late scores from Blue Max and Qix.

 

Latest Tables

Master Frogging Table

  1st    McKong                              58  12pts
  2nd   Deteacher                      57  11pts+1pt #
  3rd   therealbountybob             53  10pts
  4th   8BIT 1337                       52  9pts
  5th   Caco                              52  9pts
  6th   graywest                        51  9pts
  7th   tompateus                      47  8pts
  8th   Gury                              46  8pts
  9th   Sikor                             45  8pts
 10th   Mr Trust                        39  7pts
 11th   mimo                            38  7pts
 12th   carlsson                        38  6pts
 13th   pusakat                         30  6pts
 14th   jblenkle                         28  5pts
 15th   slx                               26  5pts
 16th   8bitguy1                       20  4pts
 17th   jdh                              17  4pts
 18th   devwebcl                      16  3pts
 19th   RedThunder                   16  3pts
 20th   Mister-VCS                    15  2pts
 21st   NamcoPlayer                  14  2pts
 22nd   Alicja (Caco Jr)               11  2pts

 

#Top NTSC Player bonus point

* tied places split by total scores

 

Slow

  1st   Deteacher                   104,130    30
  2nd   McKong                     96,030    29
  3rd   Gury                         62,850    28
  4th   graywest                   61,850    27
  5th   8BIT 1337                  39,100    26
  6th   therealbountybob        34,510    25
  7th   tompateus                  33,908    24
  8th   Sikor                         29,970    23
  9th   Caco                         16,790    22
 10th   Gury                         16,280    21
 11th   mimo                        15,340    20
 12th   carlsson                    12,590    19
 13th   Mr Trust                    12,290    18
 14th   pusakat                      9,435    17
 15th   devwebcl                    9,335    16
 16th   Mister-VCS                  8,210    15
 17th   NamcoPlayer                7,785    14
 18th   jblenkle                       6,855    13
 19th   slx                             4,550    12
 20th   Alicja (Caco Jr)               150    11

 

Fast

  1st   Caco                                38,060    30
  2nd   McKong                      33,015    29
  3rd   therealbountybob          19,520    28
  4th   Deteacher                   17,420    27
  5th   8BIT 1337                   16,950    26
  6th   Gury                          16,100    25
  7th   graywest                    15,380    24
  8th   tompateus                  14,880    23
  9th   Sikor                          14,110    22
 10th   Mr Trust                     14,020    21
 11th   8bitguy1                     12,245    20
 12th   carlsson                     10,135    19
 13th   mimo                           8,955    18
 14th   jdh                              8,420    17
 15th   RedThunder                  7,730    16
 16th   jblenkle                        7,235    15
 17th   slx                              6,165    14
 18th   pusakat                       3,870    13

 

Votes please EVERYONE >>>  Round 5 Poll  <<<

[Caco]

There is an error in the table. My result is SLOW- 38.060, FAST- 16.790

[tompateus]

PB fast  16755 p

      slow 34890 p

[tompateus]

On 3/11/2021 at 8:33 AM, tompateus said:

PB fast  16755 p

      slow 34890 p

 

It's not an easy game...

[McKong]

110300 Slow Sierra 

[+orpheuswaking]

NTSC

 

PB Slow - 15210
PB Fast - 9165

[STARBUG]

Howdy all

 

My first time ever playing Frogger, though I did have Preppie! as a kid which I loved. I think I'd have preferred Frogger to be honest, I can see why it's a classic. Terrifying gameplay, what more could you want? 

 

Anyway, here's me scores 

 

Fast - 16050

Slow - 32990

[Mister-VCS]

JH fast 4,280

 

 

[Mister-VCS]

slow 9,750

 

 

[carlsson]

2 hours ago, STARBUG said:

I think I'd have preferred Frogger to be honest, I can see why it's a classic. Terrifying gameplay, what more could you want?

As you may have seen from the history posts interleaved with the scores, supposedly it was a close call that it had remained an idea (or perhaps an obscure arcade game in small quantities in Japan) if it wasn't for one woman's pushing the execs and comparing to when Sega supposedly lost out on Pac-Man (would that have been Bally/Midway who snatched the overseas rights?). Frogger was thought to be a game for women and small children, nothing the general male gaming community would like to play, but they were proven wrong during test marketing.

 

Edit: Aha, I just learned that Gee Bee by Namco 1978 was published in the US by Gremlin Industries, which in the same year was acquired by Sega. On the other hand, at some point Namco America was founded too, and it was through them Midway got the US rights to Pac-Man so I'm not sure how Sega/Gremlin ever could have missed out on licensing it.

 

Wikipedia also writes: "When Namco presented Pac-Man and Rally-X to potential distributors at the 1980 AMOU tradeshow on November 15, 1980, executives believed that Rally-X would be the best-selling game of that year. Midway Games agreed to distribute both games in North America, announcing their acquisition of the manufacturing rights on November 22 and releasing them in December."

 

That is a one week window between the tradeshow and Midway announcing they would distribute it. Indeed Pac-Man was test marketed from May 22 and released in Japan in July, so if Sega were active in Japan they would've seen the game for about four months before it was presented in the US, though I'm not sure if they would've contacted Namco in advance to get the rights before it was shown on the tradeshow. Furthermore, Wikipedia writes that Pac-Man at the beginning wasn't that popular in Japan, as the predominantly male game players preferred shooters like Galaxian, though women liked Pac-Man's cuteness, just like they were expected to like Frogger's cuteness. Perhaps guys in America were more open for new concepts and cute things than their Japanese counterparts were?

Edited March 11, 2021 by carlsson

[pusakat]

Slow: 14,730

[Sleepy]

Before I´m late again, here´s my actual scores:

 

Fast: 6735 P

Slow: 8665 P

 

Sleepy

[doctorclu]

Alright throw some scores in here...

 

9,425 Fast

15,745 Slow

 

 

[MrTrust]

Slow 36,115.  Alas, I don't think I'm going to be able to improve my fast score.

[8BIT 1337]

Modest improvements to what I first posted (which was my first playthrough for each)

FAST: 17140

SLOW: 47330

I just got sloppy on SLOW after awhile.  Should not have lost those last 2 lives.

I found it very hard to get into SLOW after playing FAST first.  Made me impatient LOL

[tompateus]

PB slow: 70840

       fast: 18000

 

Don't think i'm gona play this game ever again..!

[+therealbountybob]

On 3/11/2021 at 2:56 PM, STARBUG said:

Howdy all

 

My first time ever playing Frogger, though I did have Preppie! as a kid which I loved. I think I'd have preferred Frogger to be honest, I can see why it's a classic. Terrifying gameplay, what more could you want? 

 

Anyway, here's me scores 

 

Fast - 16050

Slow - 32990

Welcome back STARBUG late scores for rounds 1-4 still welcome (everyone)!

 

This round and ends tomorrow (Sunday) 10am UK time, currently a 2 way shoot out in the Round 5 POLL VOTES PLEASE EVERYONE!!!

[Sikor]

Harris fast:

 

[+therealbountybob]

1 hour ago, therealbountybob said:

This round and ends tomorrow (Sunday) 10am UK time, currently a 2 way shoot out in the Round 5 POLL VOTES PLEASE EVERYONE!!!

Gave up on Fast but ground out 78,040 on slow (pbros)