Spreadsheet software recommendation?

[1200XL M.U.L.E.]

I know there are a few options for spreadsheet software, like Syn-Calc. Are there any other, more powerful options that could leverage CSV files, 80 column screens, and a RAM upgrade like the Ultimate 1MB?

 

Thank you!

[+videofx]

Visicalc was powerful and I think can do most if not all you want

[+David_P]

As far as I know, only SynCalc uses expanded RAM.  It is possible that the Turbo816 spreadsheet sold by Dataque, based on the B-Calc program from ANALOG, may support 816 expanded memory - I haven't tried it yet on an Antonia equipped Atari.

 

http://www.rts-software.com/8bit/bcalc.php

 

And another discussion from more than a decade ago - apparently TurboCalc does support '816 expanded memory.

 

 

[Faicuai]

1 hour ago, 1200XL M.U.L.E. said:

I know there are a few options for spreadsheet software, like Syn-Calc. Are there any other, more powerful options that could leverage CSV files, 80 column screens, and a RAM upgrade like the Ultimate 1MB?

 

Thank you!

 

Syncalc will leverage (to around 200+KB ram) your U1MB ram-space. It will also run several times faster than Visicalc (spread-sheet load times and recalc-times), but will be about two orders of magnitude less precise (it will sustain up to xE-07 of precision with upgraded ROM math pack, whereas Visicalc will go up to E-09 with its own math library).  NONE will support 80-cols. 

 

Syncalc can load a test 57 KB spreadsheet (80KB in RAM) in about 19secs. and recalc it in about 9.5 secs. (with Altirra FP pack in rom, and controlling DMA from keyboard, at will). This test spreadsheet has A1:A255 with a real number, and B1:N255 with "1+left-cell" formula. Visicalc will never be able to run it, and it takes on average 2.5 to 3.0 longer than Syncalc on typical recalc operations.

 

At this point, Syncalc has no substitute, and nothing comes close enough, factoring in all benefits. Visicalc, however, is a MUST-have masterpiece of work in your SW library, a true legend, and solidly coded and put together for the Atari.

 

 

Edited March 2, 2021 by Faicuai
(typos, clean-up)

[Atari8guy]

1 hour ago, David_P said:

As far as I know, only SynCalc uses expanded RAM.  It is possible that the Turbo816 spreadsheet sold by Dataque, based on the B-Calc program from ANALOG, may support 816 expanded memory - I haven't tried it yet on an Antonia equipped Atari.

 

http://www.rts-software.com/8bit/bcalc.php

 

And another discussion from more than a decade ago - apparently TurboCalc does support '816 expanded memory.

 

 

Heh.  I still love em.

[Atari8guy]

2 hours ago, 1200XL M.U.L.E. said:

I know there are a few options for spreadsheet software, like Syn-Calc. Are there any other, more powerful options that could leverage CSV files, 80 column screens, and a RAM upgrade like the Ultimate 1MB?

 

Thank you!

The only one I know that does 80 column is "budget" that comes with SAM.  It's clunky though and joystick driven.  I'm sure the crowd can chime in with others.  If you have a FUJINET you can run the CP/M ones like supercalc and microsoft multiplan (I think that's the name).   Those are both 80 column.

[1200XL M.U.L.E.]

I downloaded my copy of Syn-Calc from Atarimania and I think that is the original 1983 version. On a whim I decided to do a Google search for "atari syn-calc". I'm not sure why I didn't do this first because Google gave me an awesome search result. It's a Syn-Calc wiki page on AtariWiki. I must be living under a rock.  

 

AtariWiki V3: SynCalc

 

There is a 1985 version and and 1993 version based on the 1983 version. It looks like no version can use more than 245kB, even with massive 1MB or 4MB upgrades. I do wonder if the increased memory space enables additional rows and columns. Isn't the standard maximum number of rows 256 and the standard maximum number of columns 128?

[Faicuai]

1 hour ago, 1200XL M.U.L.E. said:

I downloaded my copy of Syn-Calc from Atarimania and I think that is the original 1983 version. On a whim I decided to do a Google search for "atari syn-calc". I'm not sure why I didn't do this first because Google gave me an awesome search result. It's a Syn-Calc wiki page on AtariWiki. I must be living under a rock.  

 

AtariWiki V3: SynCalc

 

There is a 1985 version and and 1993 version based on the 1983 version. It looks like no version can use more than 245kB, even with massive 1MB or 4MB upgrades. I do wonder if the increased memory space enables additional rows and columns. Isn't the standard maximum number of rows 256 and the standard maximum number of columns 128?

Experiment yourself!

 

Enter "1" (numeric) on A1, then copy to A2:A255. Then move to B1, and enter "1+A1" formula. The copy relative to B2:B255. Watch the top-right. memory counter.

 

From there on you can now copy the entire B column to C..xx columns, relative, and watch with each increment how RAM is allocated. Mind you that effective file saved on disk will be about 1.5x SMALLER than used ram reported on-screen.

 

You will also optimize memory usage by saving file, clearing ram, and the. reloading as you build it. RAM allocation is. ore conservative during editing / creation.

 

Try it out!

 

 

 

 

Edited March 3, 2021 by Faicuai

[_The Doctor__]

sounds like some work needs to be done... in memory management.

[Atari8guy]

I think there was a push to get the source code for Syncalc but it couldn't be found.  It would be nice to update it (or an equally powerful spreadsheet) to make us of extra ram and 80 columns....

[+David_P]

ANALOG's B-Calc source code is available. Believe it would need some effort to move the user RAM space into the $4000-7FFF area and enable banking, plus come up with a method to reference expanded memory.  Screen display would be another challenge, since a generic E: device is not as flexible as memory mapped custom management.

 

On the plus side, put it all in a 8 Mb AtariMax cartridge and you can add lots of functions, and speed things up with lots of lookup tables.

[_The Doctor__]

I love just about everything AtariMax... but the 8 Mbit cart gets into fist fight with realtime clocks and the like...

Edited March 3, 2021 by _The Doctor__

[+David_P]

There are other storage solutions possible, too...

 

Lots of design choices early on will influence things such as maximum memory supported, output options, DOS support, multi-language support, alternate CPU support, print functions, partial load of files bigger than available memory... lots to consider if a flexible maximum memory model is pursued.

 

[Atari8guy]

If I had the time, I would improve my coding just to work on this.  It'd be a pure labour of love though.  Maybe when my little ones are older.  If anyone else wants to take up the challenge, I'd offer moral support and user-testing - I have lots of variations of A8's.  Though I think Altirra is probably enough.

[ClausB]

Data Perfect has an 80-column version.

[Gunstar]

I read in one of the 80-column threads that  the S.A.M. (screen aided manager) GOS has an 80-column calc program too. I like Syncalc and the entire Syn-series myself, enough to put up with 40-columns for them. But I use 80-column or 64-column where I can.

[Faicuai]

2 hours ago, ClausB said:

Data Perfect has an 80-column version.

Isn't DataPerfect a data-base management package, instead? Or am I just late to the party (again)?

 

In any case, you are very right: I just freaking realized that (with the same ESC entry-command) I can see config. menu with support for Bit3 and Austin Franklin (!)

 

So yes, 80 cols are natively supported and it will only be so when running on the 800 !

Edited March 5, 2021 by Faicuai

[+David_P]

Set Altirra to run a 65816 with 65816 OS and 1Mb of 65816 RAM, added the TurboCalc .bin and success!  Boots and runs.  However, without the manual it's hard to figure everything out; it's only seeing base RAM.

 

(Might also rely on parts of the Dataque upgrade / upgraded OS...)

[Mclaneinc]

I love the ambition here, you could run it on your PC / Mac but you are still trying to get it done on the old bit. That's dedication..

 

And why not, it can do it, just not as smoothly as a PC..