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Mark2008

rotating around a vanishing point

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I was talking about this in another thread I was derailing, but I thought I'd just start a splinter thread instead.

 

Basically this graphics is a quick mockup to describe the idea.

 

You would imagine that there is a scrolling plane at the horizon (where the radio tower exists), the green field - is a scrolling plane where each individual line will scroll at its own pace, with the slowest at the top, gradually increasing to the fastest at the bottom.  and the foreground scrolling plane, which is the paint stripe at the bottom.

 

None of these actually use any real hardware scrolling, it's an effect, of course.

 

If there is a prior art - a program with this type of scrolling, not parallax, I have a few examples of that, I mean the rotation of perspective, if you have an atari 8-bit.

 

It's because the purpose of this program is for a magazine article! Right, I should know something about prior art.


Thanks for your help.  Btw, this game is runway 180, it came out on TI - I'm porting it, but adding my own spin.

 

Runway180.thumb.png.fc78547bb463c880678103add084687e.png

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So - you are looking for examples of what (ironically) is referred to as Mode 7 scrolling on the SNES but for the 8-bit.  Maybe the checkerboard graphics in BallBlazer?

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10 hours ago, Mark2008 said:

Thanks for your help.  Btw, this game is runway 180, it came out on TI - I'm porting it, but adding my own spin.

I do not understand the post. If you are asking for help, then help with what?

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2 hours ago, ilmenit said:

I do not understand the post. If you are asking for help, then help with what?

Ditto 

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Such a rotation projection is common if you strafe to a direction and move to the contrary direction. At the end you run or fly in a circle.  

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In theory "Tower Toppler" / "Nebulus" is such a game. 

It's not aimed to look like a flying around the tower, but if you think of a camera that follows the main sprite around a tower, it is. ;)

 

One of those games that never has been adapted to PAL.

 

 

And the landscape depth is missing.

 

 

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it sounds like he want's other examples of programs that rotate the perspective heading towards a vanishing horizon. Perhaps also some help in his code as well to make a better port of the game.

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50 minutes ago, emkay said:

In theory "Tower Toppler" / "Nebulus" is such a game. 

It's not aimed to look like a flying around the tower, but if you think of a camera that follows the main sprite around a tower, it is. ;)

 

One of those games that never has been adapted to PAL.

 

 

And the landscape depth is missing.

 

 

looks better with Artifact-ion on. I like it with the colors present

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21 hours ago, Mark2008 said:

 

 

If there is a prior art - a program with this type of scrolling, not parallax, I have a few examples of that, I mean the rotation of perspective, if you have an atari 8-bit.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, ilmenit said:

I do not understand the post. If you are asking for help, then help with what?

 

Sorry guys, I'm a quirky communicator.  Which means, I don't use words correctly.  I never have and I never will - it's a brain issue.

 

Good news is  I know its my fault, and I can try rewording, that helps on occasion.

 

I'm not asking for any help with coding, and certainly don't want any help with that, because that's the fun of it for me.

 

What I was looking for is prior art. A list of games.   And link to a youtube video, is always nice.

 

If I've in any way described the artistic effect I'm looking for, and you immediately know of a game like Choplifter that has that effect, then I'd just like to look at it.

Obviously don't repeat Choplifter, I've looked at that one.

 

thanks all!

Edited by Mark2008

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Posted (edited)

This is not a game, this is a person taking a video out a passenger window of an airplane.

 

Minute 1:35 to minute 1:45

 

The yellow line in the airport runway.  from the perspective of the person sitting in the seat, the yellow line points to the right as you approach it, eventually points directly at the person and to the left as you pass it.

 

Also if you consider the scene as a whole, there are slow moving objects in the horizon and faster moving ones near the plane, it just how perspective works.  But not every game simulates that, I figured there are some that do.  That's the premise here, parallax scrolling yes, but the simulation of perspective, lines that point to the right as you approach, directly at you as you are on them (if htey are perpendicular to you, of course) and then to the left as you pass them.

 

If I get to take credit for being the only person on earth to have the idea to simulate real life, then OK, I am comfortable with that.

 

But it's silly, of course I know that there are games that do that, I just don't play games all that often and have no idea which game to look at.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Mark2008

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hmmm obviously flight simulator would be an example...maybe flight simulator and choplifter are enough prior art

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@Wrathchild

 

Nice! Perfect.

 

And that brings to mind, MIDI maze and capture the flag, surely have elements of this as well...OK now I have a growing list of games.

 

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Posted (edited)

@Mark2008 - thanks for the explanation, but I'm still a bit confused here 🙂 You wrote that "If there is a prior art - a program with this type of scrolling, not parallax". Lets look at some definitions (Wikipedia):

"Vanishing point is a point on the image plane of a perspective drawing where the two-dimensional perspective projections (or drawings) of mutually parallel lines in three-dimensional space appear to converge. "

"Parallax is a displacement or difference in the apparent position of an object viewed along two different lines of sight, and is measured by the angle or semi-angle of inclination between those two lines"

You asked for vanishing point examples but not parallax, however these come together: when vanishing point exists in the perspective and there are visible objects, then parallax appears. The Choplifter example you gave above has both vanishing point and parallax (objects in the distance move slower with horizontal scrolling):

 

As long as you have parallel lines in 3D projection the vanishing point(s) will be there, with only one vanishing point if the parallel lines are perpendicular to a picture plane.

If you are asking about any game with vanishing points, then any game with 3D projection counts there e.g. Rescue On Fractalus, flight simulators (like F15 Strike Eagle), laser lines in The Last Starfighter or Assault Force 3-D, Attack on the Death Star, BattleZone, DimensionX, Encounter!, first person perspective RPGs like Alternate Reality and ton of other games.

 

Edited by ilmenit
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4 hours ago, ilmenit said:

@Mark2008 - thanks for the explanation, but I'm still a bit confused here 🙂 You wrote that "If there is a prior art - a program with this type of scrolling, not parallax". Lets look at some definitions (Wikipedia):

"Vanishing point is a point on the image plane of a perspective drawing where the two-dimensional perspective projections (or drawings) of mutually parallel lines in three-dimensional space appear to converge. "

"Parallax is a displacement or difference in the apparent position of an object viewed along two different lines of sight, and is measured by the angle or semi-angle of inclination between those two lines"

You asked for vanishing point examples but not parallax, however these come together: when vanishing point exists in the perspective and there are visible objects, then parallax appears. The Choplifter example you gave above has both vanishing point and parallax (objects in the distance move slower with horizontal scrolling):

 

As long as you have parallel lines in 3D projection the vanishing point(s) will be there, with only one vanishing point if the parallel lines are perpendicular to a picture plane.

If you are asking about any game with vanishing points, then any game with 3D projection counts there e.g. Rescue On Fractalus, flight simulators (like F15 Strike Eagle), laser lines in The Last Starfighter or Assault Force 3-D, Attack on the Death Star, BattleZone, DimensionX, Encounter!, first person perspective RPGs like Alternate Reality and ton of other games.

 

He means surely not parallax scrolling, neither Rescue on Fractalus, not Dimension X nor Encounter. 

The "Huts" look like they move in a circle.

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Posted (edited)
45 minutes ago, emkay said:

He means surely not parallax scrolling, neither Rescue on Fractalus, not Dimension X nor Encounter. 

The "Huts" look like they move in a circle.

What, how did you get out of my ignore list??? Was something changed on this forum? Going to review the settings.

Edited by ilmenit
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4 hours ago, ilmenit said:

What, how did you get out of my ignore list??? Was something changed on this forum? Going to review the settings.

the forum sometimes glitches and serves a distorted posting while a person is ignored... something is afoot..

if things don't make sense you might refresh the page... every once in a while normal messages are a little off.

malformation is something for Al to look into.

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Posted (edited)

Sadly it also allow for people quoting him for us to see, wish it blocked them too..9 out of 10 times I ignore his posts as he is on my ignore list but sometimes I see his 'strangeness' quoted.

 

Trying to think  of some games that match what Mark2008 is looking for...

Edited by Mclaneinc
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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, _The Doctor__ said:

the forum sometimes glitches and serves a distorted posting while a person is ignored... something is afoot..

if things don't make sense you might refresh the page... every once in a while normal messages are a little off.

malformation is something for Al to look into.

It bothers myself that they feel to act on my posts. Without them , the thread can be fun and informative. 

 

Particular if you know that in Rescue on Fractalus the "flying around a vanishing point" is not possible, because you only can fly forward. So you are always in the center of the movement. It's exactly vice versa to "fly around a vanishing point" .

Also Mark2008 explained that it is NOT a hardware scrolling effect itself, as on a single scanline the pixel have to move in different speeds.

Edited by emkay

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Star Raiders and Star Raiders 2 (Wilmunder) . If you use "Aftview" and fly at speed 1, you can do circles around single stars.

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Still not quite sure what the OP is asking for, partly because of all the noise in the thread, but the description (and the mention of Choplifter) makes me think of Dimension X.   Game play starts at 3:13 into the video, I picked this vid because the game animation is much smoother and true-to-life than the other YouTube vids.

 

 

 

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he is talking about perpendicular objects fading into the vanishing horizon as the camera travels parallel to the horizon. A central fixed point may be the focus.

 

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Posted (edited)

This might give some impression:

 

 

0:01 to 0:10

Edited by emkay

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