Ex-Activision Designers Launch Retro Game Publisher Audacity Games™

[Mr SQL]

35 minutes ago, Andrew Davie said:

or tested exclusively on hardware... then I simply don't believe that.

the emu is helpful for quick tests but I could test exclusively on real hardware with the SuperCharger or the PlusCart pretty effectively and don't need it for debugging since Tron works better or just as well. The emu is useful but OG's don't need it.

2 hours ago, CyranoJ said:

According to them they wrote all their own because "there are no tools" - like we've been living in a void for 20 years, LOL.

 

I found that whole thing disingenuous to watch, especially saying nobody 'publishes' games professionaly when this very site does that.  Had to turn if off mid way through - so maybe they mellowed later on, but if they don't consider what they do "homebrew" then what are they doing on ZPH ?

 

The game looks good, but then again $140 buys you 2-4 much better looking ones from the AA store. 

 

I'd suggest 2600 homebrew authors legally change their name to "David Crane" just so they can add $70 to the retail price

Do you call your garage band the Beatles?   

[Supergun]

1 minute ago, chad5200 said:

I am most impressed by the fact that there is no additional hardware on the carts. It’s only using the standard 128 bytes of RAM. The only special thing about it is that it’s using 128K ROM size. No extra RAM, no DPC, nothing else!

I agree that is impressive, no arguing that at all, but however, let’s be fair, they still have one advantage (having 128k rom space) as that was not only prohibitively expensive back in the day, but it was also never done. So by definition, that still counts as an advantage.

[+TwentySixHundred]

38 minutes ago, Jstick said:

The feeling I got was that they were really focusing on how much investment they had made in physical production capabilities, specifically large quantities of new injection molded carts.  Albert does an amazing job, but he is still buying old carts and refurbishing them, and there is still a lot of delay in the game release schedule because he can only handle so much. 

 

Dave said he felt homebrew was someone at home making a game, whereas they have apparently invested a lot in this venture as a company, to the point where it's possible they wont fully see a return on that.

 

If they can leverage this (as well as their new dev tools) to bring aboard and publish other devs from back in the day as they mentioned in the stream, then I think it's a fair viewpoint.

Really though what's the difference of someone sitting at home developing to what these guys are doing? Anyone could invest a load of cash into into hardware and gimmick products to patch in without making a profit. Would that make them a commercial seller and not a homebrew developer? That's where things get confusing other then what Andrew said. If Andrew and Thomas decided they're commercial developers and created a company name with all this merch then they too could say they're not homebrew authors and are commercial developers. I would really care other then they flat out denied it was homebrew when really there isn't a difference. The console ran it's run and everything since was classed as homebrew so to me this is homebrew on a large budget.

 

16 minutes ago, Andrew Davie said:

I haven't watched it, and this is one ZPH show I'm not going to watch. It all felt like too much hype a week ago and only got worse. Yes, they're industry veterans, but seeing people almost falling over themselves salivating for copies of the games... is off-putting to say the least. The games look great, what little I've seen. Don't get me wrong. But there are plenty of recent releases which are great games, too, even better games, but which will not see the same sort of adulation. Just feels all wrong to me.

 

I suspect (and again, take this with a grain of salt as I'm only responding to the comment above) that when they were saying they wrote their own tools for development, they were probably referring to things like sprite and graphics and sound editors/animation tools. That's totally believable. But if they're claiming they didn't use dasm, or a similar already-written assembler, and by implication that they wrote their own emulator or tested exclusively on hardware... then I simply don't believe that. That scenario has a plausibility of close to zero. When you are part of (or want to be part of) a community, acknowledging the contributions of others in the community is important. Even more so, actually contributing to that community is important, too. I don't have a sense that Audacity want to be seen that way; it seems they are doing this from a commercial viewpoint and have no intention of sharing anything; and that is, of course, their prerogative. I like to see things that are good for the community.

 

As to homebrew or not; this is pretty much something that in my view is based on what the developer thinks it is. If they say it's not homebrew, but a commercial release - well, that's what it is... a commercial release. I suspect they're trying to distance themselves from any association with "amateur", which is what "homebrew" suggests to some.

 

 

And that's the part that's got me baffled, as i mean there is devs like yourself, Thomas, Darrel, John and i could keep rattling off names for days. So many "veteran" devs here at AA, that it's almost kind of rude that they're not associating themselves with the community. Well that's what it feels like in a way, as you described people falling over themselves because some vets are back. I get the excitement but throwing money at them like rockstars i feel is a bit ridiculous. Many are people that would never even consider other equal in quality homebrew at the AA store because it wasn't commercially released...

 

As for tools well yeah i have no doubts Dave could knock up graphics and audio creation tools without any issues. Dave did mention Javatari but im sure they have silently strolled through AA if not benefited from knowledge, discoveries and documentation on the forum. After all this is the goto site for everyone into Atari related news, documentation or discoveries as you mentioned they would have atleast used dasm.

 

It's just a really sour feeling to have the veterans not really acknowledge the achievements of the community. It's almost like we don't exist other then some basement developers sitting at home "having a go at learning the 2600" as David C basically said... It's that rockstar mentality i find off putting TBH

[+CyranoJ]

Just now, Mr SQL said:

the emu is helpful for quick tests but I could test exclusively on real hardware with the SuperCharger or the PlusCart pretty effectively and don't need it for debugging since Tron works better or just as well. The emu is useful but OG's don't need it.

Do you call your garage band the Beatles?   

Says the guy with SQL in his name

 

I see I'm going to have to turn off notifications for this... 

 

I think its great that 2600 veterans are making new games.  However, they don't have to trample over the people who have kept things alive in order for them to be able to do so - which is what their comments ammounted to in that interview. (In my opinion)

[CPUWIZ]

9 minutes ago, Supergun said:

(having 128k rom space)

 

So 2013.

[+fdr4prez]

6 minutes ago, Andrew Davie said:

How did the internet thing work? A QR code or something else?

 

Yes, a QR Code.

 

Each game's rom is made per order with the serial so the QR code will be coded for your serial number for the high score website.

[Mr SQL]

3 minutes ago, CyranoJ said:

Says the guy with SQL in his name

 

I see I'm going to have to turn off notifications for this... 

 

I think its great that 2600 veterans are making new games.  However, they don't have to trample over the people who have kept things alive in order for them to be able to do so - which is what their comments ammounted to in that interview. (In my opinion)

OK I see where you're coming from - you shouldn't be offended they act like rockstars imo because Activision.

[+Andrew Davie]

2 minutes ago, fdr4prez said:

Yes, a QR Code.

 

Each game's rom is made per order with the serial so the QR code will be coded for your serial number for the high score website.

TY. And you take a photo of the screen with your app? I think I called it.

Edit: the App would recognise the QR code, of course.

Edited March 13, 2021 by Andrew Davie

[+fdr4prez]

Just now, Andrew Davie said:

TY. And you take a photo of the screen with your app? I think I called it.

yes, exactly.

 

For me at least, I don't call this "your game is connected to the internet using your phone" - or whatever their verbiage was.

 

"connected" has a certain meaning to me that, well, it is connected.

 

 

[Supergun]

Maybe they’re subconsciously bitter about the fact that they were the worlds first “third party developer”, but they are way late to the party for being the worlds first “Homebrew developer” and so they can’t use that word and feel the need to coin a new phrase for who they are just so they can be pioneers again.

[+cvga]

I watched a good portion of the video and they didn't seem bitter. I think sometimes we create controversy that isn't really there (this isn't intended at any one person). The game seems incredible, Dan Kitchen has been around here for awhile and is an amazingly nice guy, and they didn't dismiss the work of anyone else. I with them the best of luck and hope they are successful enough to keep at it for many games to come.

Edited March 13, 2021 by cvga
fixed spelling error

[+TwentySixHundred]

4 minutes ago, Supergun said:

Maybe they’re subconsciously bitter about the fact that they were the worlds first “third party developer”, but they are way late to the party for being the worlds first “Homebrew developer” and so they can’t use that word and feel the need to coin a new phrase for who they are just so they can be pioneers again.

Think it's basically along the lines of what Andrew was saying. They're just trying to look professional by not associating themselves with "amateur" homebrew devs. I still don't really think it's the way to win over 2600 enthusiast hearts, when in reality the community is quite small and everyone is here. They wont be selling like hotcakes to anyone else other then us weirdos that have a passion for the 2600.

[+Andrew Davie]

Just now, TwentySixHundred said:

Think it's basically along the lines of what Andrew was saying. They're just trying to look professional by not associating themselves with "amateur" homebrew devs. I still don't really think it's the way to win over 2600 enthusiast hearts, when in reality the community is quite small and everyone is here. They wont be selling like hotcakes to anyone else other then us weirdos that have a passion for the 2600.

No, I did not suggest they are "bitter". They just don't seem to consider their work "homebrew", and if that is their viewpoint then we should respect that.

[+somebooks]

Hopefully Audacity's existence leads to more people discovering the mind-blowing modern 2600 homebrew scene... in turn leading to more people making more games, and on and on. These message boards kept me sane through the pandemic.

 

I remember when I discovered this scene, and started telling my friends "it's incredible! people are making the best games ever made for the system RIGHT NOW! on cartridges and everything!"... i was personally hesitant to use the word "homebrew" myself because it just didn't feel like it illustrated the high quality level of games that are being made. So although I've come to really like the word -- almost carries an "artisan/hand-crafted" kind of connotation to me now -- and although any game that's released for a system without paying royalties is probably technically "homebrew"...  I definitely understand their aversion to the word.

[+cvga]

5 minutes ago, somebooks said:

 -- almost carries an "artisan/hand-crafted" kind of connotation to me now -- and although any game that's released for a system without paying royalties is probably technically "homebrew"...  I definitely understand their aversion to the word.

When I describe games currently being made to people who aren't into older games, I generally describe them as "boutique" releases. Very similar to your artisan description.

[+TwentySixHundred]

10 minutes ago, Andrew Davie said:

No, I did not suggest they are "bitter". They just don't seem to consider their work "homebrew", and if that is their viewpoint then we should respect that.

I probably worded it wrong and not didn't really mean to quote you, other then use it to make my point of how they're trying to keep that professional look. That's all good and everyone has their thoughts on what homebrew is and isn't like you had mentioned many posts ago. To me the console ran its course and im really not seeing the difference from the AA store other then investing money into hardware and who's writing the software.

[+Mitch]

I've always preferred the term "modern release".

 

Mitch

[fultonbot]

The game is $60 for cart/box/instructions and the chance to win patches.
You get a whole bunch of other stuff for $100 and $140. Seems pretty fair to me.  
And yeah, I'm a "slavering fan-boy" for it because it's "motherf$%*!ing" Crane/Kitchen/Kitchen making new games, and the game looks amazing.
I'm also a fan-boy for many other "homebrew/indie" games too.

I've been an Atari fan since 1978 and I'm not gonna apologize for being excited for this.

Edited March 13, 2021 by fultonbot

[+batari]

2 hours ago, TwentySixHundred said:

Think it's basically along the lines of what Andrew was saying. They're just trying to look professional by not associating themselves with "amateur" homebrew devs. I still don't really think it's the way to win over 2600 enthusiast hearts, when in reality the community is quite small and everyone is here. They wont be selling like hotcakes to anyone else other then us weirdos that have a passion for the 2600.

Yeah, they can call themselves what they want. If they feel they are not homebrewers, then I suppose they are not.

 

It would have been nice to at least get a nod to the homebrew community, though. Yes, it's certainly possible that they used only their knowledge of 2600 programming from 40 years ago and used no modern 2600 programming techniques that have been discovered since then, but I would truly be surprised if they used none of the modern tools.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

4 hours ago, Supergun said:

I agree that is impressive, no arguing that at all, but however, let’s be fair, they still have one advantage (having 128k rom space) as that was not only prohibitively expensive back in the day, but it was also never done. So by definition, that still counts as an advantage.

It would most likely have been too expensive in 1982, but we had 32K Fatal Run only a few years later. So at least by the end of the 2600 lifetime, 128K seemed feasible.

And utilizing 128K with just 128 bytes of RAM requires some quite clever game design.

Edited March 13, 2021 by Thomas Jentzsch

[+kheller2]

2 hours ago, Mitch said:

I've always preferred the term "modern release".

 

Mitch

I hadn't given much thought to the word "homebrew" until this thread.  And after reading through all these pages, I can see where home-brew could be construed as just that -- you brewed beer at home (and all the positive and negative feelings that come with that), in comparison to say the local small brewery that just opened a few years ago and is expanding and is now being served in the local bars --- vs the major corporate brewers out there at the grocery stores across the country.

 

I like the phrase "modern release" as it doesn't imply who made it or where, just when.

[Lord Innit]

As time moves along there is a point where something considered modern ceases to be modern.  What will the games become known as then?

 

[Thomas Jentzsch]

4 hours ago, TwentySixHundred said:

Think it's basically along the lines of what Andrew was saying. They're just trying to look professional by not associating themselves with "amateur" homebrew devs. I still don't really think it's the way to win over 2600 enthusiast hearts, when in reality the community is quite small and everyone is here. They wont be selling like hotcakes to anyone else other then us weirdos that have a passion for the 2600.

Well, they invested a lot of money and I am pretty sure after 40 years in business they know what they are doing. I am pretty sure they will sell their games at a very high volume when compared to the usual AtariAge sales even of top notch homebrews.

 

What I didn't like was the amount of self-praise during the stream. That is something we normally do not see from homebrewers on that scale. Maybe that's a cultural thing or maybe that is something you automatically develop after being admired by fans for so many years? Anyway, it made them look a bit snobbish to me, but I suppose most people will see this differently or don't mind at all. Nevertheless, I hope they will link closer to the existing homebrewing scene than it seems now. The Atari 2600 development community is very small and I wouldn't like to see it split between "them" and "us".

[+kheller2]

1 minute ago, Lord Innit said:

As time moves along there is a point where something considered modern ceases to be modern.  What will the games become known as then?

 

Releases at that point in time would still be called modern.  Releases from decades prior, well, that's a good question.  

[+batari]

28 minutes ago, kheller2 said:

I hadn't given much thought to the word "homebrew" until this thread.  And after reading through all these pages, I can see where home-brew could be construed as just that -- you brewed beer at home (and all the positive and negative feelings that come with that), in comparison to say the local small brewery that just opened a few years ago and is expanding and is now being served in the local bars --- vs the major corporate brewers out there at the grocery stores across the country.

 

I like the phrase "modern release" as it doesn't imply who made it or where, just when.

I hadn't either, to be honest. However, I think of the term is not directly from "homebrew beer" as I think of that kind of homebrewer making beer mostly for himself. I think more of the mid-1970s "homebrew computer club" of which a couple of other early icons were members, and who ultimately started another company that we may have heard of.