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Ex-Activision Designers Launch Retro Game Publisher Audacity Games™


jaybird3rd

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Guess i word things wrong and everyone thinks i'm really concerned what defines homebrew lol. Can't remember who said it awhile back nor can be bothered flipping through pages to find out. Went along the lines of "everyone has their own definition of what hoembrew is and that's their prerogative". They stated they invested alot and wont yield any profits, so as any other homebrew dev they're doing it for the passion. To me this is homebrew, money invested or not, as time is classed money as well.

 

Aside from the whole homebrew topic i do agree there is definitely a rockstar vibe. Like i said before, i probably would do the same if everyone was salivating in the mouth due to my previous accomplishments too. Human nature i guess...

 

Now most importantly i don't understand why you need to buy a physical copy to receive a digital copy. From what i am seeing there is no digital-only package and im not whiling to part with more in shipping then the cost of the game. I'd rather just a digital copy which is also something i have been waiting to happen on the AA store for full releases. I'm guessing worries about piracy? Even though it was mentioned that will happen anyway...

 

So yes i'm not against what they're doing, i just consider this homebrew the same as anything in the AA store and want a digital copy. Oh and was expecting them to be a little more involved with the community as they reached out to James. Guess i got my hopes up being a bit of a fan boy myself over the years.

 

On the very last note im not trying to pick fights, argue or stir the pot. I just have strong opinions and voice them when i probably shouldn't. There is nothing malice about what i say, or at least the intention isn't that way.

 

-Anthony

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2 hours ago, batari said:

Yeah, they can call themselves what they want. If they feel they are not homebrewers, then I suppose they are not.

 

It would have been nice to at least get a nod to the homebrew community, though. Yes, it's certainly possible that they used only their knowledge of 2600 programming from 40 years ago and used no modern 2600 programming techniques that have been discovered since then, but I would truly be surprised if they used none of the modern tools.

 

I don't know if they went into detail in the stream but I asked Garry Kitchen earlier in the week what bank-switching method they are using and he straight up admitted that it was Superbank. I would call that a modern method.

 

Edited by JetSetIlly
I asked Garry not Dan
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From the video, it seems as if many characters from the Activision-2600 days were present, such as the alligators, gold bars, sunset, etc. Was the code simply transferred over, or was it rewritten from scratch? And was there any mention of copyright issues? Not that I want there to be, mind you, but I was wondering if any licensing and/or similar discussion for permission (even if for free) from Activision Blizzard took place. (Maybe someone could ask on one of the designer's Twitter feeds about this; I myself am not on the platform)

 

In terms of this, I have to say, I am very happy that the visual style has been retained. Not that creating a new 2600 visual vocabulary wouldn't be great as well, but this definitely brings us all back, I think we would all agree...

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9 minutes ago, AAA177 said:

Was the code simply transferred over, or was it rewritten from scratch?

You cannot simply copy existing code and plug it into a new game. The code has to fit to the overall code, which usually means that you have to rewrite large parts if not everything from scratch. The graphics (data) may have been copied, but the code definitely not.

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I'm probably going to annoy a lot of people, but here we go.  Grabbing my soap box...

 

The classic gaming community has become impossible to please.  For years, almost right after the 2600 finally died out and people started becoming nostalgic for it, people begged the original 2600 programmers to do another game.  Of course back then they were still working their real jobs and had no time to spent trying to do a unprofitable side project to please fans.  Now that time and technology have marched on and they can finally do it, people still complain!  They're not doing this for free, they're selling a product so some complaints or concerns are fine, but the level of nitpicking and 'armchair programming' (if that's a term) is mind boggling.  This community has started to grow toxic over the last several years.  As much as I hate to use that overused and loaded word, it fits.  I'm surprised people even bother anymore, all they get are demands and complaints.  We used to be better than this.

 

Ok I'm done.  Carry on people.

 

BTW this isn't aimed at any one person, just my observations of the entire community these days.

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9 hours ago, CyranoJ said:

I think its great that 2600 veterans are making new games.  However, they don't have to trample over the people who have kept things alive in order for them to be able to do so 

5 hours ago, batari said:

It would have been nice to at least get a nod to the homebrew community, though.

 

I keep seeing comments like this in this thread...

This is what Dan actually said (timestamp 39:10):

 

"We wouldn't be here if it wasn't for the homebrew. Homebrew kept the system alive, and made people interested in it. It's wonderful, the things that have been done in homebrew to keep the machine alive.

It's one of our favorite systems, and certainly it's become a favorite for a lot of people, and you know we're very, very happy that they took the step forward a number of years ago. I think John Champeau told me I think its about 15 years he's been playing with homebrew...

...that's wonderful the work that's been done"
 

It seems pretty obvious that they do have respect for the homebrew scene, and they even gave a shout out to John specifically.

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11 minutes ago, Tempest said:

I'm probably going to annoy a lot of people, but here we go.  Grabbing my soap box...

 

The classic gaming community has become impossible to please.  For years, almost right after the 2600 finally died out and people started becoming nostalgic for it, people begged the original 2600 programmers to do another game.  Of course back then they were still working their real jobs and had no time to spent trying to do a unprofitable side project to please fans.  Now that time and technology have marched on and they can finally do it, people still complain!  They're not doing this for free, they're selling a product so some complaints or concerns are fine, but the level of nitpicking and 'armchair programming' (if that's a term) is mind boggling.  This community has started to grow toxic over the last several years.  As much as I hate to use that overused and loaded word, it fits.  I'm surprised people even bother anymore, all they get are demands and complaints.  We used to be better than this.  Maybe it was always there and I just never saw it before, or maybe I'm just getting old.  Either way, I'm sad.

 

Ok I'm done.  Carry on people.

 

BTW this isn't aimed at any one person, just my observations of the entire community these days.

You couldn't have said it any better man. WTF happened to this place? I know I was gone a few years but wow... 

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3 hours ago, JetSetIlly said:

I don't know if they went into detail in the stream but I asked Garry Kitchen earlier in the week what bank-switching method they are using and he straight up admitted that it was Superbank. I would call that a modern method.

There is nothing special with SuperBank which couldn't have done back then too. 

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9 minutes ago, DrVenkman said:

I suggested that it would likely be a QR code way back in the first couple pages of the thread (post #36). :)

yes indeed you were way before me on that; not stealing your thunder. My initial thought was that you sent a screenshot of the high-score via the app. When you suggested QR code, it all made total sense (because of the initial tease as a QR code). My point was; the app was NOT communicating with the game via some WiFi or Bluetooth. I was wrong on the screenshot of the highscore, but half-right in that you took a picture of the screen.

But anyway, well done for being first to suggest QR code. There, credit where credit is due :)

 

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I’ll most likely be ordering a copy today. Not because it’s a new game from Crane and Kitchen, but because it’s a very cool looking new game. I don’t see any difference between being excited enough about this to buy it on day one than buying Draconian or Galagon on day one of PRGE.

 

A couple of other things:

 

Many homebrew developers have now been actively developing for the 2600 longer than the Audacity guys.

 

Some of the comments I’ve seen on articles about this in other places have been people excited to buy a new 2600 game for the first time in 35 years. Maybe a few of them will discover the homebrew scene (but I’m not holding my breath for that to happen).

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Some of the early part of the interview about homebrew vs their efforts came across as a little condescending to me, but it's possible that that was in part because I'm more sensitive as a homebrewer. ? They also made some nice comments later on, as has been pointed out.

 

In truth, the game they have produced is quite remarkable both in gameplay and as a technical feat. I'm glad also that they chose to debut it in the way that they did. Hopefully they will continue to build the relationship with the existing homebrew community over time. Hopefully, too, this will attract new people to the 2600 scene as well.

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25 minutes ago, Jstick said:

It seems pretty obvious that they do have respect for the homebrew scene, and they even gave a shout out to John specifically.

No doubt about that. I just suppose many people were hoping for a bit more. 

 

After the show I am not sure how closely they follow the homebrew scene. Maybe they are not 1st hand informed like many of us are. That would explain why there "only" was the general statement quoted above. Or maybe they were just very much focusing on presenting their company and product.

 

I suppose time will tell.

 

BTW: Circus Convoy seems to be are really good game. Maybe we should discus more about that.

Edited by Thomas Jentzsch
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5 hours ago, kheller2 said:

I hadn't given much thought to the word "homebrew" until this thread.  And after reading through all these pages, I can see where home-brew could be construed as just that -- you brewed beer at home (and all the positive and negative feelings that come with that), in comparison to say the local small brewery that just opened a few years ago and is expanding and is now being served in the local bars --- vs the major corporate brewers out there at the grocery stores across the country.

 

I like the phrase "modern release" as it doesn't imply who made it or where, just when.

I was going to draw a cupcake analogy but I like beer just as much.

 

I can go into my local Grocery store in Virginia and buy the same beer that someone can buy in California. I can also buy local brew in the same store or the bar down the road but its local only. I can't get it in California, or Pennsylvania for that matter. Brews like Sam Adams started as 'homebrews' and grew to cover the country and possibly beyond by this point. And then there are the local brews that can only be bought in one bar. I have one of those type of bars three minutes away. To me, that last one is Atari Age.

 

Galagon could very easily be sold in any local retro game store. It's professional from start to finish. But it's boutique. As far as I know it's sold in one location and no one makes a profit on it. Atari Age is for the love of the game. Is Galagon or Atari Age really a commercial enterprise? I think that's the difference. Intention.

 

I don't think anyone here is using the profit motive to drive their production. Games are not developed using a production schedule. Albert makes the physical product when he can, not to a distribution schedule. As far as I know, you can't buy any Atari Age games at retail. I get the impression that Audacity is looking at our market (and other retro game markets?) in a completely different manner. That's what will make them different, not necessarily successful, but different.

 

But I'll say it now. EDIOT [Poo-poo] to them if they ever denigrate Atari Age or the people that make our niche possible. I'd like to think we are happy with the community we have, and if they try to come around and bully us with any holier-than-thou attitude they can just piss off. We didn't need that attitude before and we don't need that nonsense now. All we need are fantastic games to buy from people that respect their market. Atari Age is that right now. I love this place.

Edited by JasperAK
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14 minutes ago, Thomas Jentzsch said:

There is nothing special with SuperBank which couldn't have done back then too. 

 

True. It would only be the cost of such a large ROM that would have been prohibitive. I mentioned it only to illustrate that they follow the homebrew scene.

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OK, first off, David Crane did most of the talking, and David has a way of coming off as a little snooty and annoyed.  His air about him is just sort of misleading.  For instance, while he didn't write the check himself, he worked quietly behind the scenes to get my documentary funded.  He has also, as everyone knows, been a fixture at conventions.  He's very eager to talk shop about the 2600, almost to the point of being sort of a college professor type.  The knowledge transfers he's done have fed into the homebrew community.  So it's been very much a symbiotic relationship.


Also, as said in the interview, they have been asked countless times to do this.  So this is partly due to popular demand, or calling our bluffs, so to speak.  For some to insinuate that they are trying to exploit or undercut homebrewers feels really unfair.  The pricing of the standard cart is reasonable.  If it were $200+ or they ran a kickstarter then it would raise red flags but how they are doing it is fair.  Most importantly, the walk through of the game shows that there is solid value in the product.  It's not slapdash.

 

Homebrewers have been keeping the machine going for 25 years already.  Any credit they are due has been earned many times over.  Some technical achievements made have definitely met and exceeded tricks developed back in the day.  There is no need for homebrewers to feel threatened or upstaged by this.  Whether you classify this as homebrew or not is ultimately just semantics.

 

I do think there is a generational thing where some homebrewers may think they've simply gone beyond what the OGs can do to the point where they can no longer be impressed.  And that may be their biggest liability.  But I did notice that the Zero Page people seemed to be a good 10-15 years younger than I would expect from retro gamers.  I don't know if the hobby is passing down to Gen Y or Z or what but things do seem to be in some state of generational flux.  It may be reaching a point where more active players will have encountered the 2600 as an already retro thing rather than having lived through it as kids.  It's not something I would have predicted.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, JetSetIlly said:

It would only be the cost of such a large ROM that would have been prohibitive.

Are you sure? 4K were OK in 1978, 8K in 1981, 16K in 1983. And I suppose it were not only the hardware but also the development cost which slowed down the ROM size increase. I suppose at least in the late 80s 128K would have been fine, probably even earlier.

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55 minutes ago, Tempest said:

I'm probably going to annoy a lot of people, but here we go.  Grabbing my soap box...

 

The classic gaming community has become impossible to please.  For years, almost right after the 2600 finally died out and people started becoming nostalgic for it, people begged the original 2600 programmers to do another game.  Of course back then they were still working their real jobs and had no time to spent trying to do a unprofitable side project to please fans.  Now that time and technology have marched on and they can finally do it, people still complain!  They're not doing this for free, they're selling a product so some complaints or concerns are fine, but the level of nitpicking and 'armchair programming' (if that's a term) is mind boggling.  This community has started to grow toxic over the last several years.  As much as I hate to use that overused and loaded word, it fits.  I'm surprised people even bother anymore, all they get are demands and complaints.  We used to be better than this.  Maybe it was always there and I just never saw it before, or maybe I'm just getting old.  Either way, I'm sad.

 

Ok I'm done.  Carry on people.

And then you have a bunch of people trying to get Albert to sell the roms on the store so people can pay the developers (and distributor) for their work. Not everyone wants a $50 box, manual, and cart, but some people want to reward the people that make our scene possible. Now I don't follow the homebrew or programming threads nearly as much as the general so I can't speak for people being bitches or special snowflakes during the development of these games. The only hostility I ever see is in the Taco and Amico threads, and with careful moderation even that has died down.

 

EDIOT: Now I read the programming threads when I find a game that interests me, and maybe it's because I haven't been here very long, but for the most part I don't see negative. One of the threads I have been following is Andrew Davie's Chess thread. That looks like a thread where Andrew shows us the development as it occurs and where the community offers input and questions. The progress that has been made in that thread is amazing. That's what I see.

Edited by JasperAK
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18 minutes ago, JasperAK said:

Fuck them if they ever denigrate Atari Age or the people that make our niche possible. I'd like to think we are happy with the community we have, and if they try to come around and bully us with any holier-than-thou attitude they can just piss off.

 

Come on, man.  You're manufacturing controversy up out of thin air.

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Just now, Thomas Jentzsch said:

Are you sure? 4K were OK in 1978, 8K in 1981, 16K in 1983. And I suppose it were not only the hardware but also the development cost which slowed down the ROM size increase. I suppose at least in the late 80s 128K would have been fine, probably even earlier.

 

I don't know to be honest. I'm assuming that cost would always be a factor in decision making but maybe 128k wasn't as prohibitively expensive as I'm imagining.

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12 minutes ago, Thomas Jentzsch said:

BTW: Circus Convoy seems to be are really good game. Maybe we should discus more about that.

Yeah! An original game with that kind of gameplay, and depth, and those graphics! With story aspects as well. Gives me a similar feeling to the first time i played Keystone Kapers and realized every level had more and more stuff, or in Pitfall 2 when i first realized you could go dooooown. Excited to see how they’ll build on the character mythology from one game to the next too.
 

They also figured out a fun, clever way of exploring the nostalgia of the old games without solely relying on that.

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11 minutes ago, Thomas Jentzsch said:

After the show I am not sure how closely they follow the homebrew scene. Maybe they are not 1st hand informed like many of us are.

This is a good point. These guys were the originators of the 2600 scene, which years later we have become reverent towards.  But in the same way that George Lucas doesn't collect new Star Wars action figures and read all the new Star Wars comics, the 2600 might simply not hold the same mystique and nostalgia for them, since they were in the guts of it back then. 

 

Outside of meeting folks at conventions and such, it's certainly possible that they are not following every single latest development they way we do here.

 

Quote

BTW: Circus Convoy seems to be are really good game. Maybe we should discus more about that.

Yes, let's do that please.  This is Audacity's first game, they deserve a fair chance on the merits of their game just like any other developer here. 

 

Circus Convoy looks really cool, and has some neat ideas!

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7 minutes ago, Jstick said:

This is a good point. These guys were the originators of the 2600 scene, which years later we have become reverent towards.  But in the same way that George Lucas doesn't collect new Star Wars action figures and read all the new Star Wars comics, the 2600 might simply not hold the same mystique and nostalgia for them, since they were in the guts of it back then. 

 

Outside of meeting folks at conventions and such, it's certainly possible that they are not following every single latest development they way we do here.

 

The way they described music was out of step with how it can be done these days with driving soundwaves through vblank (but even then David did something similar in the DPC chip so he knows about it in theory).  But hey, not every game needs to use the same techniques.  David is aware of Harmony, for instance.  I don't think they are totally oblivious to goings on.

Edited by mos6507
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