orange808 Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 bB was one of the greatest achievements on the system. It's more than just games. Put yourself on the list of greats, batari. Yes, right there with the Kitchen bros and Crane. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 1 hour ago, Mr SQL said: LOL you can't use yourself as an example because you're an OG like Activision. Noice, I can call myself OG now, my year matches his. What does that mean, aside from street talk? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cebus Capucinis Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 Old Grouch 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr SQL Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 12 minutes ago, batari said: Whether Andrew is an OG or not is neither here nor there. Andrew and Thomas are perfect examples, actually, and they are not the only ones who can disprove the "time invested" argument. I think the time invested argument is consistent with the OG argument, meaning that while both are excellent programmers Andrew has invested more time for having been coding twice as long since the 80's. Programming knowledge is cumulative so OG's will always tend to have more ability unless we find one frozen in time... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omegamatrix Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 39 minutes ago, JasperAK said: So at 550+ and possibly slowing, is it safe to say that they will sell about the same or a little more than the best sellers here? If they sell more or even significantly more over time, where would those sales coming from? What market are they hitting that Atari Age isn't? I mentioned it in an earlier post that I thought they might be trying to grow the market. Any thoughts on how they may be doing it? Or are they selling to the same crowd but getting more sales because they are rock stars? Does Circus Convoy look like such a superior game to the homebrews we have now to explain greater sales? I'd really like to know if they can get 1000+ sales, how could they possibly do it? Who are they selling to that Atari Age is not? I wish them all the best; these questions I think of are not meant to disparage anyone. I just see this as a Sales and Marketing exercise. A little bit of SWOT and Market Analysis. I think you hit on a lot of the points here. I can only speak for myself but I bought the game because it looked like a really good one and I wanted to play it. I don't buy a lot of games anymore, but when I do I like to get a digital download for space savings. I bought the Collectors Edition for this purpose. They are likely 600 sales by now. Certainly some more sales will trickle in over the next few days but I would not expect them to hit a 1000 just from those. If they had a booth at PRGE then yeah they might sell a few hundred more based on celebrity factor. I would definitely be stoked to buy this game from them in person. Other than that if they could also get some more sales by getting the game into retro gaming stores than yes I believe they could hit a 1000+ in total sales. But maybe everyone will still be pissed at the site launch and instead we'll just be having a big bonfire of Circus Convoy's while we sing Kumbaya. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+thanatos Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 9 minutes ago, Cebus Capucinis said: Old Grouch I disagree. Because I don't want to get banned! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 9 minutes ago, thanatos said: I disagree. Because I don't want to get banned! Well, I am an old grouch. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orange808 Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 I know having full control is great, but would it be easier for Audacity to partner with AtariAge next time? I feel like Audacity had too much on their plate. With such a small market, does it make sense to reinvent the wheel? If they wanted to look professional and distance themselves from amateurs, this website fiasco didn't accomplish that. (Sorry if that is hard to hear, it's true.) They could also go with crowdfunding. That would offload the website and traffic management to a better prepared party. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr SQL Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 20 minutes ago, CPUWIZ said: Noice, I can call myself OG now, my year matches his. What does that mean, aside from street talk? It means pictures Here I am in 1987 raking in 100K at a single Expo with a modular design that runs BIG code like my OG boyz at Activision. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cebus Capucinis Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 I think sales numbers as a metric isn't appropriate, but that's just me. Comparing this to offerings on the AA store is apples and oranges, and what we should do is appreciate that there's a core group of people, whatever they choose to be classified as, that love and enjoy this hobby so much they're willing to go neurotic for lack of sleep to make the things they, and we, love. Are they "homebrews" or "commercial releases?" Who cares? GAME ON! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 7 minutes ago, Cebus Capucinis said: they're willing to go neurotic for lack of sleep to make the things they, and we, love. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zonie Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 If it were not for the "Homebrewers" doing the great stuff they do, and have been giving us for over 10-20 years, the "old school guys" probably wouldn't even consider releasing new games. It's pretty sad that some folks here don't even consider the new games "professional." Hell, They rock. Batari, PacManPlus, Jentz, et all are the real thing and those of you who think they are not just need to sort yourselves out...Albert has really put a release program together that works. It's real folks. The games are real. The people are real. The products are great. My two cents. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+thanatos Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 27 minutes ago, Mr SQL said: It means pictures Here I am in 1987 raking in 100K at a single Expo with a modular design that runs BIG code like my OG boyz at Activision. Wait, that's a Rainbowfest? What CoCo stuff were you selling there? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fultonbot Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 8 minutes ago, Zonie said: If it were not for the "Homebrewers" doing the great stuff they do, and have been giving us for over 10-20 years, the "old school guys" probably wouldn't even consider releasing new games. It's pretty sad that some folks here don't even consider the new games "professional." Hell, They rock. Batari, PacManPlus, Jentz, et all are the real thing and those of you who think they are not just need to sort yourselves out...Albert has really put a release program together that works. It's real folks. The games are real. The people are real. The products are great. My two cents. It's really cool to have Crane/Kitchens making new games I love it! However, the thing that inspired m to get back into retro gaming a few years ago were all the amazing homebrew games you all were making. I see very little difference between the homebrews and what might be considered "commercial" games. To me, it's ALL "indie" games. The "homebrew" title to me applies to new games for old systems that are individually copied onto an eprom/rom and not made using masked manufacturable factory ROMs (because someone is making them at home). That is why I call the Audacity games "pro brew" because they are "home brew" games made by old pros, but it's such a fine line as to not really matter at all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybird3rd Posted March 15, 2021 Author Share Posted March 15, 2021 From my understanding of what Crane said in the ZPH interview, his definition of homebrew versus commercial games is more about the developers' motivation than it is about their level of professional experience or the quality of the games. A professional developer can make a homebrew game, or try to, if they're doing it primarily for fun. A novice developer can make a commercial game, or try to, if they're doing it primarily as a commercial venture. There is a bit of fun and a bit of commercialism in everyone's motivations, however, and in many cases the categories tend to collapse one into the other, so I think it's mostly pointless trying to argue about whether a given game should be considered "homebrew" or not; in the end, it doesn't make that much of a difference. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+swlovinist Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 I ordered the VIP edition and got #42. I am excited to play this game, and also want to say that I have experienced some AMAZING games from many programmers here on AA. This site has helped so many people come together to celebrate, game, and share their creations. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phimseto Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 (edited) Old devs returning to the fold, homebrew scene as vibrant as ever. About the only thing I'd love to see is some of those more difficult homebrews and titles go back into circulation. I'll never be a fan of the forced scarcity model. In the meanwhile, I'm just incredibly grateful that we get new games from classic names, along with great originals from other devs like Spies In The Night, Anguna, etc., and awesome initiatives like the revamps of Berzerk and Wizard of Wor and stuff like AtariAge's TrakBall collection. Edited March 15, 2021 by phimseto 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Andrew Davie Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 1 hour ago, Cebus Capucinis said: Old Grouch I direct you to the bit under my avatar. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr SQL Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 10 minutes ago, thanatos said: Wait, that's a Rainbowfest? What CoCo stuff were you selling there? Yes that was the Past Present and Future show show themed after one of my innovative games, I had a lot of help from the show promoter Lonnie Falk to set that all up to get those numbers! ? The Rainbow Magazine (Radio Shack Color Computer) (March 1988) : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive I actually just got the copy protection off that game last year and was able to finally share it again here on AtariAge and in the archives. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Climber Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 53 minutes ago, batari said: That's why I said there were many that are more than $10k. I've personally spent more than twice that on a single project. I have heard of homebrew-related investments of upwards of $35k. The argument was that their investments "far exceeded" that of anything done before. I have a pretty good idea of how much some of these things cost and I doubt this particular game is the most expensive project to date, much less "far exceeds" that of any other. Gotcha, I guess I misunderstood you. I thought the question of upfront costs was just 10k, not 20-35k. If we're talking $35,000 that's a different ballgame of course I wouldnt have guessed any Atari 2600 homebrew game to date was anything close to that kind of budget pre release...of course what they cost in the end is just educated guesses for me...but in my defense I was just speculating on the money thing. For all I know the sales of the first 500 could fund the next 500, etc.. Lots of smaller operations use that system (my shop included) The comment about "large enough quantities" and the HIGH serial numbers is what got me thinking they went REALLY BIG upfront though so honestly I'm just curious mostly I can tell this is very important to you though so I'd just like to clarify overall I'm not very serious about any of this and am just "watching from the bleachers" Im mainly just throwing out ideas, making conversation, etc and hopefully am not coming off as confrontational in this conversation.. if I am it's not intended. Long story short...not trying to make anyone mad that has also spent a lot of money up front and definitely not discrediting or belittling their work/contributions/etc... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omegamatrix Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 9 minutes ago, jaybird3rd said: From my understanding of what Crane said in the ZPH interview, his understanding of homebrew versus commercial games is more about the developers' motivation than it is about their level of professional experience or the quality of the games. A professional developer can make a homebrew game, or try to, if they're doing it primarily for fun. A novice developer can make a commercial game, or try to, if they're doing it primarily as a commercial venture. There is a bit of fun and a bit of commercialism in everyone's motivations, however, and in many cases the categories tend to collapse one into the other, so I think it's mostly pointless trying to argue about whether a given game should be considered "homebrew" or not; in the end, it doesn't make that much of a difference. TPH I don't find much difference between what they are doing and what @Albert does. I guess the only thing is they did different is having new shells made, but I believed Al has looked into that before too. AA does use new circuit cards ( @batari's Melody board, etc..), has boxes and manuals professionally made, and so on... Also, the sheer volume of releases by AA is astounding. AA is an amazing publisher. These are some of the best games in 2600 library, and I'm sure it's the same for the other systems AA has games for. We wouldn't be here today if it wasn't for the homebrew scene. They recognized that, and were thankful for it keeping the system alive. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+jgkspsx Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 I consider every new awesome game that hits the scene for any "dead" system from anybody to be a gift. After spending 20-some years mostly away from the classic gaming community, it has been amazing to see how much work is going on in every imaginable corner. (And how AtariAge seems to be at the center of much of it.) I just wish I had more time and money to spend on all of it. My game-playing habits have shifted very strongly towards classic systems and it's astounding how much amazing stuff is out there, better than large percentages of original-run games. I'm really excited about this game too. I ordered the regular edition, and I am looking forward to getting my 7800 back in action to play it. (Not to mention some of the awesome-looking games I have already bought or plan to eventually buy from AA.) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwelsh Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 I got VIP number 96. The timestamp on the transaction was 5:18 PM, but that was only because i had a hard time figuring out how to get Paypal to open. Safe to say they sold out of the VIP bundle within 20 minutes, and have sold hundreds of games so far. Really excited to give this a try and to see what else they have in store. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phimseto Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 1 hour ago, phimseto said: Old devs returning to the fold, homebrew scene as vibrant as ever. About the only thing I'd love to see is some of those more difficult homebrews and titles go back into circulation. I'll never be a fan of the forced scarcity model. In the meanwhile, I'm just incredibly grateful that we get new games from classic names, along with great originals from other devs like Spies In The Night, Anguna, etc., and awesome initiatives like the revamps of Berzerk and Wizard of Wor and stuff like AtariAge's TrakBall collection. One last observation to add to my original thoughts: with today's purchase, I realized that I now own Atari games that were made in each of the last six decades. That's amazing. The whole community can take a bow on that one. 6 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slacker Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 (edited) Just picked up my standard edition copy! Serial numbers are over 2300 now. Firefox went into a infinite loop trying to access the site like other reported. I used Chrome and didn't have any issues. Edited March 15, 2021 by slacker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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