Mario Bros + POKEY: Does It Exist?

[+Defender_2600]

On 3/15/2021 at 5:42 AM, Synthpopalooza said:

So a question:  does 320C incur the DMA costs of 320A, or 320B? 

 

320B, however shouldn't be a concern with M.Bros since the background is mostly empty and there aren't many sprites to manage. Even without taking the calculator, we saw demonstrations in 160B and 320B much heavier than Mario Bros. In addition, when it can be useful, we can also use the 320C mode in combination with the 320A mode.

Edited March 17, 2021 by Defender_2600

[Synthpopalooza]

If this becomes a real possibility, I am going to go back over the music and sfx, and maybe tweak them.  

 

Going back over it:  Mario and luigi walking were done through dedicated analog circuits.  Maybe TIA can stand in here.  The others were done using An M58715 chip.  How many sound channels are we talking here?  If it's just 3, putting POKEY into 16+8+8 mode might do it.  Use 16 bit for the deep frequency sounds maybe.  It bears thinking about.

[+darryl1970]

8 hours ago, Defender_2600 said:

 

Or better, he should be more like this...

 

 

If this could be achieved with all of the sprites on screen, this would be incredible. This is very sharp and well planned.

 

I NEED to understand 320 mode better. How do you draw a sprite in 320 and visualize how it will look on screen? What editor do you use to formulate these sprites.

 

I have another mock-up that I think would benefit from 320 mode, but I don't know how to draw a 320 sprite.

8 hours ago, Defender_2600 said:

 

 

 

I WANT to understand that this means.

7 hours ago, Karl G said:

Yeah; we've heard that one before. Wasn't Popeye just supposed to be a simple demo, and not a full game?  ? 

Kind of @Karl G. Popeye was more of me trying out the 7800 hardware. I grew up with an 800XL, but I'd never had an experience with 7800 hardware. The game actually started out more as me plotting one sprite to the screen. That sprite happened to be Brutus. After that, I added Popeye, and it snowballed.

 

I threw the Plumber demo together in about 6 hours. That was drawing rough sprites, floors, plotting everything, and adding rough screen detection. That was the easy part. It would probably take many more hours to tweak that and get it right. Mario doesn't jump backward, he doesn't fall correctly, he will fall through the floor in a couple spots, and he doesn't react properly when you tap the stick in the same direction. Multiply that by the number of enemies and variations, and the time will really add up.

 

I would really enjoy making a better Mario Bros, but I don't plan on doing this right now. I've played with a couple other concept ideas, of which there is no 7800 port. That might be more productive use of my time. I get really sucked into these things. I have very little free time, and I want to make sure it's dedicated to the best possible project. Mario Bros is a very special game to me though, the current port makes my stomach turn, and there are some awesome sound effects out there for POKEY. I would never say never, but who knows? I am trying to pace myself a little before jumping back in too hard.

 

4 hours ago, Synthpopalooza said:

So a question:  does 320C incur the DMA costs of 320A, or 320B? 

 

Is 320A less cost, but more sprite plots? I would like to understand these things too.

[Trebor]

37 minutes ago, darryl1970 said:

I WANT to understand that this means.

I believe it is the breakdown of how the palettes in the screen mockup are distributed for Maria's display lists among the zones.

 

http://7800.8bitdev.org/index.php/Maria_Display_Structure_Overview

 

[+playsoft]

10 hours ago, Defender_2600 said:

 

 

 

1 hour ago, darryl1970 said:

I WANT to understand that this means.

 

I've not used it myself but my reading of the table is:

 

"P2=0 : palette 0-3, P2=1 : palette 4-7" means that by setting bit 2 of the palette bits in the header you can choose which group of palettes to use, either palettes 0-3 or palettes 4-7.

 

"D75/D64/D31/D20" are the 8 data bits of a byte of graphics data. This mode is 2 bits per pixel so 4 pixels per byte, but each pair of pixels are related; one pair of pixels is represented by bits 7/6/3/2 and the other by 5/4/1/0. The table shows what colours you get for a pair of pixels for all 16 possible values of these 4 bits.

 

As stated you get 4 colours plus bg and transparency. However each pair of pixels must be one of: both transparent, both colour 2 of any of the 4 palettes (in the group selected) or one pixel set to colour 2 and the other set to bg colour (not transparent).

[+Karl G]

4 hours ago, darryl1970 said:

Kind of @Karl G. Popeye was more of me trying out the 7800 hardware. I grew up with an 800XL, but I'd never had an experience with 7800 hardware. The game actually started out more as me plotting one sprite to the screen. That sprite happened to be Brutus. After that, I added Popeye, and it snowballed.

 

I threw the Plumber demo together in about 6 hours. That was drawing rough sprites, floors, plotting everything, and adding rough screen detection. That was the easy part. It would probably take many more hours to tweak that and get it right. Mario doesn't jump backward, he doesn't fall correctly, he will fall through the floor in a couple spots, and he doesn't react properly when you tap the stick in the same direction. Multiply that by the number of enemies and variations, and the time will really add up.

 

I would really enjoy making a better Mario Bros, but I don't plan on doing this right now. I've played with a couple other concept ideas, of which there is no 7800 port. That might be more productive use of my time. I get really sucked into these things. I have very little free time, and I want to make sure it's dedicated to the best possible project. Mario Bros is a very special game to me though, the current port makes my stomach turn, and there are some awesome sound effects out there for POKEY. I would never say never, but who knows? I am trying to pace myself a little before jumping back in too hard.

That is certainly understandable, and I was mostly kidding. ? But in my experience, it seems that sometimes the project chooses you - you can't know for sure what project will grab your attention over overs, even if you expect otherwise.

 

At any rate, given what you have done for your first 7800 project, there's little doubt that whatever you choose to work on will end up great!

[+darryl1970]

8 hours ago, Karl G said:

That is certainly understandable, and I was mostly kidding. ? But in my experience, it seems that sometimes the project chooses you - you can't know for sure what project will grab your attention over overs, even if you expect otherwise.

I get you. You are correct. I really don't want to get too involved. I really enjoy seeing the action on-screen though, so the mock-up is drawing me in.

Quote

At any rate, given what you have done for your first 7800 project, there's little doubt that whatever you choose to work on will end up great!

Very kind of you, sir! Thanks.

Edited March 15, 2021 by darryl1970

[+darryl1970]

17 hours ago, Defender_2600 said:

320B, however shouldn't be a concern with Mario Bros since the background is mostly empty and there aren't many sprites to manage. Even without taking the calculator, we saw demonstrations in 160B and 320B much heavier than Mario Bros. In addition, when it can be useful, we can also use the 320C mode in combination with the 320A mode.

I don't know how this adds up, but I figure there can be a total of 8 floor enemies on the same row as Mario and Luigi. There are a possibility of 3 fireballs, which also could be on the same row at one time. Also, there can be up to 2 icicles at the peak of the action (not the slipice, but the icicles that hang). I didn't dig to see if the the slipice fall under the 8, on-screen enemy pool. I would assume they might.

 

I am not familiar with 320 mode. I am just wondering. The original 7800 version was very limited on enemies on-screen. It should have a lot more going on.

It would be interesting to learn 320 sprites, but I wonder if this may have a lot going on.

Edited March 15, 2021 by darryl1970

[+darryl1970]

Here's a minor stress test. I say minor, because it's quick, dirty, and doesn't contain any real logic or detection. plus the fireballs are all on different levels.

 

I think a big test would be checking collision between the 8 shellcreepers (or sidestepper - fighterfly - slipice combos). That will be a lot. Plus, Mario, Luigi, 3 fireballs, icicles, and about 4 enemies on one scan line might be a lot.

I think the pipes would need a sprite mask when an enemy comes out too.

 

EDIT: I am also not sure if a coin replaces, or is in addition to, a floor enemy.

 

MarioBros(ICE).a78

Edited March 15, 2021 by darryl1970

[OldStyle]

23 hours ago, darryl1970 said:

Here's a minor stress test. I say minor, because it's quick, dirty, and doesn't contain any real logic or detection. plus the fireballs are all on different levels.

 

I think a big test would be checking collision between the 8 shellcreepers (or sidestepper - fighterfly - slipice combos). That will be a lot. Plus, Mario, Luigi, 3 fireballs, icicles, and about 4 enemies on one scan line might be a lot.

I think the pipes would need a sprite mask when an enemy comes out too.

 

EDIT: I am also not sure if a coin replaces, or is in addition to, a floor enemy.

 

 

The arcade version, as far as I can tell, has the critters capped at 6 and 4 fireballs (there's a 2nd red fb introduced in later stages).  I forget how many icicles drop at a time, but those max out at 6 total if I recall.

 

I can relate to what you are eluding to since I've been working on a port of it, on and off in piecemeal fashion since early 2019.  At one point early on, I stopped working on it for about 6-7 months.  However, each time I come back to it, I'm reminded that it's not too bad!!  With that said, I suppose now is a good time as any to tell the enthusiasts here that a fresh port is much closer than ya think!

 

I'd estimate it's roughly 65%-70% complete, and by that I'm referring to core game elements which would exclude the title screen, demonstrations, scoreboard, etc.  Those I plan on adding last, although I do have an early title screen which needs re-working.  Graphics mode is 160A/B and sprites are more or less finished aside from a few needed for the demonstration screens.  The palette is very close to the arcade version and sprites were completely redrawn.  There are some exceptions with how things look, like with the icicles (not a fan of the arcade sprite), some of the death anims, and green instead of yellow for the alternate POW color.. more fitting for Luigi.. oh, and turtles will get out of their shell.

 

I do have a little bit of sound in there as well which I think is turning out decently.

 

Player and enemy movement is mostly completed, aside from the interactions between Mario and Luigi (bumping into each other, jump on-squish).  As of late, this project has caught my focus again and thus I have been refactoring the code, fine-tuning things related to player movement and collisions/hit detection with and between enemies.  Once I'm wrapped up with that I will share a demo of some kind which will hopefully be sooner rather than later.

 

The playfield is smaller, but I don't think it's an issue as it's easy to become acquainted with it.  As a result the gameplay itself will feel just a tad faster than other ports and not as floaty as the arcade and NES versions.  The player movement and platforming elements feel just right though.

 

I suppose I should create another thread for this?  In the interim, I've attached a few screenshots:

 

[phattyboombatty]

On 3/15/2021 at 4:33 PM, darryl1970 said:

Here's a minor stress test. I say minor, because it's quick, dirty, and doesn't contain any real logic or detection. plus the fireballs are all on different levels.

 

I think a big test would be checking collision between the 8 shellcreepers (or sidestepper - fighterfly - slipice combos). That will be a lot. Plus, Mario, Luigi, 3 fireballs, icicles, and about 4 enemies on one scan line might be a lot.

I think the pipes would need a sprite mask when an enemy comes out too.

 

EDIT: I am also not sure if a coin replaces, or is in addition to, a floor enemy.

 

MarioBros(ICE).a78 128.13 kB · 8 downloads

I just tested this on real hardware, and I'm blown away! It just goes to show your talent Darryl. I'm very impressed with the platform mechanics at such an early stage. This WIP shows a LOT of potential. Thanks for posting!

[Jinks]

32 minutes ago, phattyboombatty said:

I just tested this on real hardware, and I'm blown away! It just goes to show your talent Darryl. I'm very impressed with the platform mechanics at such an early stage. This WIP shows a LOT of potential. Thanks for posting!

I bet ZPH does a video of it tomorrow.. ?

 

Cart please! ?

[+Defender_2600]

2 hours ago, OldStyle said:

With that said, I suppose now is a good time as any to tell the enthusiasts here that a fresh port is much closer than ya think!

 

OldStyle, this is a nice surprise! And I guess it hasn't been easy to keep the project secret until now (speaking from experience). The screenshots are very nice, especially I love when a programmer is not afraid to use 160B mode, so great job and I can't wait to see it in motion. Some of us are very picky here , so I was wondering if the animations will include all the sprites from the arcade version that would make a significant difference. For example, I think we are all a little tired of having versions with only 3 frames / sprites for the Shellcreepers walk animation compared to the 6 frames with 5 sprites of the arcade version. One other thing I'm seeing is that maybe you could consider relocating the score numbers to the same position as the arcade version, this would also allow you to make the proportions of the two upper green tubes closer to the arcade version. Anyway, the suggestions are premature right now, instead I want to welcome you here on AtariAge.

 

[Shawn]

6 hours ago, OldStyle said:

 

The arcade version, as far as I can tell, has the critters capped at 6 and 4 fireballs (there's a 2nd red fb introduced in later stages).  I forget how many icicles drop at a time, but those max out at 6 total if I recall.

 

I can relate to what you are eluding to since I've been working on a port of it, on and off in piecemeal fashion since early 2019.  At one point early on, I stopped working on it for about 6-7 months.  However, each time I come back to it, I'm reminded that it's not too bad!!  With that said, I suppose now is a good time as any to tell the enthusiasts here that a fresh port is much closer than ya think!

 

I'd estimate it's roughly 65%-70% complete, and by that I'm referring to core game elements which would exclude the title screen, demonstrations, scoreboard, etc.  Those I plan on adding last, although I do have an early title screen which needs re-working.  Graphics mode is 160A/B and sprites are more or less finished aside from a few needed for the demonstration screens.  The palette is very close to the arcade version and sprites were completely redrawn.  There are some exceptions with how things look, like with the icicles (not a fan of the arcade sprite), some of the death anims, and green instead of yellow for the alternate POW color.. more fitting for Luigi.. oh, and turtles will get out of their shell.

 

I do have a little bit of sound in there as well which I think is turning out decently.

 

Player and enemy movement is mostly completed, aside from the interactions between Mario and Luigi (bumping into each other, jump on-squish).  As of late, this project has caught my focus again and thus I have been refactoring the code, fine-tuning things related to player movement and collisions/hit detection with and between enemies.  Once I'm wrapped up with that I will share a demo of some kind which will hopefully be sooner rather than later.

 

The playfield is smaller, but I don't think it's an issue as it's easy to become acquainted with it.  As a result the gameplay itself will feel just a tad faster than other ports and not as floaty as the arcade and NES versions.  The player movement and platforming elements feel just right though.

 

I suppose I should create another thread for this?  In the interim, I've attached a few screenshots:

 

 

Looks damn good! Can't wait to play it when you are ready to share!

 

[+Defender_2600]

On 3/16/2021 at 12:25 AM, darryl1970 said:

I don't know how this adds up, but I figure there can be a total of 8 floor enemies on the same row as Mario and Luigi. There are a possibility of 3 fireballs, which also could be on the same row at one time. Also, there can be up to 2 icicles at the peak of the action (not the slipice, but the icicles that hang). I didn't dig to see if the the slipice fall under the 8, on-screen enemy pool. I would assume they might.

 

I am not familiar with 320 mode. I am just wondering. The original 7800 version was very limited on enemies on-screen. It should have a lot more going on.

It would be interesting to learn 320 sprites, but I wonder if this may have a lot going on.

 

As you know, the Atari 7800 is a beast with sprites, without background it can display up to 30 sprites per scanline, this is really impressive, especially if you compare it with the NES or the Sega Master System which both can display maximum 8 sprites per scanline or with the ColecoVision that can display only 4 monochrome sprites per scanline. To be precise, the 7800 does not have a specified limit on number of sprites per scanline but there is a limit on Maria (454 cycles per scanline) and the number of cycles used depends on the width and color depth of the sprites.

 

Now, back to M.Bros, you have counted a maximum of 15 sprites per scanline and we need to check if there are enough Maria cycles using 320C mode. So 320C, 16 pixel wide sprites, 2 bits per pixel: 8 cycles for DL header + 12 cycles for data = 20 total cycles for a single sprite, so 300 cycles are required for 15 sprites. To this we must add 4 tiles (green tubes), therefore 8 pixel wide tiles, 2 bits per pixel: 10 cycles for DL header + 24 cycles for data = 34 cycles total for the 4 tiles. Finally, there are 12 cycles + 23 cycles for Maria start/end. So, 300 cycles (sprites) + 34 cycles (tiles) + 35 cycles (Maria start/end) = 369 cycles used per scanline out of 454 cycles available. So, there are enough cycles per scanline to use 320C mode.

 

Edited March 17, 2021 by Defender_2600

[OldStyle]

1 hour ago, Defender_2600 said:

 

OldStyle, this is a nice surprise! And I guess it hasn't been easy to keep the project secret until now (speaking from experience). The screenshots are very nice, especially I love when a programmer is not afraid to use 160B mode, so great job and I can't wait to see it in motion. Some of us are very picky here , so I was wondering if the animations will include all the sprites from the arcade version that would make a significant difference. For example, I think we are all a little tired of having versions with only 3 frames / sprites for the Shellcreepers walk animation compared to the 6 frames with 5 sprites of the arcade version. One other thing I'm seeing is that maybe you could consider relocating the score numbers to the same position as the arcade version, this would also allow you to make the proportions of the two upper green tubes closer to the arcade version. Anyway, the suggestions are premature right now, instead I want to welcome you here on AtariAge.

 

Thanks for the greets, Defender!  I've lurked here from time to time because I still have a soft spot for those ancient video games.. that and the 2600 & particularly the 7800 DK port I saw years back changed my outlook on the system and it led me here.

 

I guess the best way to put it is there will be more or less a close, respectable representation for everything, staying true to what's there not veering off too far when it comes down to it.  As for the creeper anims I hear ya man- Not a fan of the purple-skinned zombie turtles!  I had to ration anims in 3s for the most part (walking, turning, kicked, bumped, etc).  There are many sprites dedicated to them exclusively and they eat up bank quick!  I believe I have decent key frames in the right sequence so it's not too shabby.

 

I toyed with 320 modes but it seemed heavy to dig into at first, especially without any knowledge or feel for it.  I did have the score in, I think it was 320C mode, going across as you describe with the pipe being higher but I scrapped it in favor of performance.  It sure looked nice though.  Might give it another crack after I wrap up the core gameplay of it.

 

Again, appreciate the welcome!

 

 

 

[OldStyle]

1 hour ago, Shawn said:

 

Looks damn good! Can't wait to play it when you are ready to share!

 

Hi Shawn, thanks man.  I feel like I'm at the final stretch with it.  A few concerns though:

a) will it run on hardware- I'm assuming it will, but I just don't know.  It definitely runs thru Bup and a78 no problems.  No yellow screen of death!

b) space available- the lack thereof is creeping in.  Worst case scenario for this is I'd have to settle for only certain pairs of critters visible together as opposed to all them together at any time.  I think the arcade version does this to an extent, seems like the sidestepper/fighterfly pairings happen often.  Anyhow, I hope that's not the case.

c) probably the biggest one - you know who dropping the hammer on it.  Does the fact that this was released before on the 7800 make a difference or not?

[+Defender_2600]

Video deleted (as a precaution).

 

Edited March 18, 2021 by Defender_2600

[+Pat Brady]

1 hour ago, OldStyle said:

I guess the best way to put it is there will be more or less a close, respectable representation for everything, staying true to what's there not veering off too far when it comes down to it.  As for the creeper anims I hear ya man- Not a fan of the purple-skinned zombie turtles!  I had to ration anims in 3s for the most part (walking, turning, kicked, bumped, etc).  There are many sprites dedicated to them exclusively and they eat up bank quick!  I believe I have decent key frames in the right sequence so it's not too shabby.

 

I toyed with 320 modes but it seemed heavy to dig into at first, especially without any knowledge or feel for it.  I did have the score in, I think it was 320C mode, going across as you describe with the pipe being higher but I scrapped it in favor of performance.  It sure looked nice though.  Might give it another crack after I wrap up the core gameplay of it.

 

Welcome! Your screenshots look fantastic, and I will eagerly watch your progress.

 

Different people have different opinions about arcade accuracy. My position is: respect the original, try to reproduce as much of the gameplay as you can, but do not be totally averse to showing the platform's personality, or to tweaking the presentation. For example, I really like your font. It fits with the whimsical nature of the game, whereas the arcade version's is undistinctive and utilitarian.

 

IMO, don't worry about 320 mode. Your screenshots have convinced me that 160A+B is appropriate for this game. It is possible to use 320 for the score panel only, but then you have to be careful to avoid jarring transitions.

[+darryl1970]

There are way too many things I would like to respond to, but I need to get started on work.

 

Thanks for sharing @OldStyle! It looks very good. Mario Bros was a very special game for me, growing up. The NES version watered the game down. I feel they ruined the game for the generation that grew up with that port. While the basics make for a decent game, it was lacking the intricacies and details that made the game truly exceptional. It looked good (except for the unacceptable shellcreepers) and sounded good, but that is just cosmetic.

 

When I saw the 7800 version, I threw up a little in my mouth. It was a poor implementation of the, already lacking, NES port. The controls were off, animation choppy, and the game lacked even more of the details -- like the level 2 shellcreeper trap (level 3 on the Japanese version). The inertia is practically non-existent, which is a big part of the chaos. Then the sound just took it over the edge.

 

I am happy to see a version that could enlighten those who thought that was a decent conversion. It's hard to write my thoughts on the original without sounding negative to some people. I don't mean it, just for negativity's sake. I really come from the angle of excitement when people can finally experience what made the arcade special. That's why I threw together my interactive mock-up.

 

Finally, I do understand the concern with Big-N. I would like to say that they left Pokey Kong alone. The name "M-a-r-i-o" is a sensitive spot for them. Maybe a slight name change may be in order.

[+Defender_2600]

9 hours ago, OldStyle said:

c) probably the biggest one - you know who dropping the hammer on it.  Does the fact that this was released before on the 7800 make a difference or not?

 

6 hours ago, darryl1970 said:

Finally, I do understand the concern with Big-N. I would like to say that they left Pokey Kong alone. The name "M-a-r-i-o" is a sensitive spot for them. Maybe a slight name change may be in order.

 

Considering what happened with Princess Rescue for 2600 and with SMBros for C64, I would really like to recommend the utmost caution with this, therefore minimize any form of noise / social disclosure and above all absolutely not publish videos on Youtube. I'm sorry to say, but even sharing a demo publicly exposes you to some risk. The demo may be privately distributed to some of our trusted beta testers and the game may be released when it's definitely called "done". Maybe a pre-order formula could be studied for the physical cartridge that has no media exposure. The possibility of being able to buy the game in digital form would also be a nice option. I'm really excited about what has been shown and I'm sorry to look so negative. I really do hope that the game will fly under the radar, but I believe that as a precaution we must also think about the worst case scenario. It would be a very sad loss to get a "cease and desist letter" before the community has had a chance to get the game, as was the case with SMBros for C64. Just my opinion.

 

Edited March 17, 2021 by Defender_2600

[+Defender_2600]

On 3/15/2021 at 11:06 AM, darryl1970 said:

If this could be achieved with all of the sprites on screen, this would be incredible. This is very sharp and well planned.

 

I NEED to understand 320 mode better. How do you draw a sprite in 320 and visualize how it will look on screen? What editor do you use to formulate these sprites.

 

As usual I use MSPaint, carefully applying the EricBall tables, it requires patience because you need to manually check each pair of pixels but if you do this carefully what you draw will be exactly what you will see on the screen under emulation or under real hardware with S-Video output or HDMI output. However, RF output (and composite video output) without a comb filter will produce some artifacts which, if not desired, can still be eliminated by making some targeted tweaks to the graphics.

 

If one day you would like to work on a version of M.Bros in 320C mode, I would be available to help you with the graphics, I can provide you with the graphics in BMP file or PNG file, so that you don't need to manually check each pair of pixels. Depending on your preference, I can provide you with the full high resolution graphics or the graphics with appropriate retouching if you prefer not to display artifacts with an RF output that does not have a comb filter.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 17, 2021 by Defender_2600

[+ZeroPage Homebrew]

15 hours ago, Jinks said:

I bet ZPH does a video of it tomorrow.. ?

 

Cart please! ?

Hahah,  I missed the impressive updates to this thread before the show yesterday but l definitely talk about it on Friday! ?

 

I'm blown away with both @darryl1970's POC and the screenshots from @OldStyle WIP. Mario Bros. is an extremely fun game that I love to play and I'm looking forward to what either of them come up with separately or together!

 

- James

[+DrVenkman]

2 minutes ago, ZeroPage Homebrew said:

Hahah,  I missed the impressive updates to this thread before the show yesterday but l definitely talk about it on Friday!

PLEASE don't. No one want's N-in-ten-DON'T 's lawyers to send anyone a C&D on another great project. 

[OldStyle]

23 hours ago, Pat Brady said:

 

Welcome! Your screenshots look fantastic, and I will eagerly watch your progress.

 

Different people have different opinions about arcade accuracy. My position is: respect the original, try to reproduce as much of the gameplay as you can, but do not be totally averse to showing the platform's personality, or to tweaking the presentation. For example, I really like your font. It fits with the whimsical nature of the game, whereas the arcade version's is undistinctive and utilitarian.

 

IMO, don't worry about 320 mode. Your screenshots have convinced me that 160A+B is appropriate for this game. It is possible to use 320 for the score panel only, but then you have to be careful to avoid jarring transitions.

Thanks Pat!  Yes I was having some troubles with it for score as it seemed to bog things down, plus with the zone height at 16 and having the p-lives stacked presented some problems.  Here's an early shot on how it looked.  I had (and still do) the top zone locked because with the player jumping high enough would partially enter 320 mode, looking funky.