donjn Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 This goes for everything homebrew including the new 2600, 5200, 7800, Atari computers etc. Why are the only options spending between $35 to $50 for a game that (let's be real here) would be worth $5 on Steam? I'm an Ultima collector too, so I know the value of boxes, manuals etc but these are mostly simple arcade games not RPGs with spellbooks. Why can't we have an option to download the rom for $14.99 or $19.99? I think there are a lot of good people here and I doubt we would pass the rom around DC for free. Thoughts? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 AtariAge is working on it, but Al's time is limited. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dionoid Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 I know Sheep It Up! offers the rom download through itch.io: https://drludos.itch.io/sheep-it-up-2600 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roots.genoa Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 Because as soon as a ROM is available somewhere, free or not, bootlegs appear. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Andrew Davie Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 1 hour ago, roots.genoa said: Because as soon as a ROM is available somewhere, free or not, bootlegs appear. In general, this is true. I can say from experience, though, that there are quite a few honourable people in this hobby. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youxia Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 1 hour ago, roots.genoa said: Because as soon as a ROM is available somewhere, free or not, bootlegs appear. Isn't it possible to dump the rom from the cart and then make a bootleg? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 (edited) 38 minutes ago, Andrew Davie said: I can say from experience, though, that there are quite a few honourable people in this hobby. /signed Edited March 12, 2021 by Thomas Jentzsch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 25 minutes ago, youxia said: Isn't it possible to dump the rom from the cart and then make a bootleg? Depends on the game and measures taken. E.g. ARM games are much harder to dump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hizzy Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 I like having roms for everything in my collection. I know purchase-able roms are on the way. Looking forward to it! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaultheRoman Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 20 minutes ago, hizzy said: I like having roms for everything in my collection. I know purchase-able roms are on the way. Looking forward to it! I can't wait for it, personally. I do not like having a massive physical collection for something that can take less than a 100 MB on my Google Drive. Plus, having a ROM version of a game futureproofs it. If not for ROMs, I feel like a lot of these cool homebrews may not be playable in the future, when they're not being produced. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jstick Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 It will definitely allow these games to be available to a wider audience (Harmony Cart owners, Stella users, etc.) Of course piracy is always a thing, but I think at this point most of us in these forums are here because we enjoy seeing new titles being developed for these old systems, and the majority are happy to support the developers so that they can continue to bring us fun games. I would hazard a guess that even if these games eventually end up in ROM packs for Retropie or whatever, the casual folks that are going check them out for 30 seconds represent about %0 lost revenue potential. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzip Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 7 hours ago, roots.genoa said: Because as soon as a ROM is available somewhere, free or not, bootlegs appear. As opposed to carts? You can find roms for virtually anything Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzip Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 6 minutes ago, Jstick said: It will definitely allow these games to be available to a wider audience (Harmony Cart owners, Stella users, etc.) Of course piracy is always a thing, but I think at this point most of us in these forums are here because we enjoy seeing new titles being developed for these old systems, and the majority are happy to support the developers so that they can continue to bring us fun games. I would hazard a guess that even if these games eventually end up in ROM packs for Retropie or whatever, the casual folks that are going check them out for 30 seconds represent about %0 lost revenue potential. I also think piracy is mostly a pastime engaged in by the young, who really believe they aren't hurting anyone. People the age of those on this forum know better, we also have more disposable income and don't mind supporting these efforts financially, even if it seems overpriced if you compared it to Steam. That's not to say there are no pirates here, just not so many 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Gemintronic Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 My experience with digital downloads is that they are a very hard sell even at $2.00. Digital downloads also kill sales of physical carts. I am trying digital downloads for small games that don't take 6 months to make. Maybe small steps are needed for both developers and retro gamers. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jstick Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 Maybe the “Physical + Digital” bundle is the way to go, but even then you might end up with a bunch of carts on the secondhand market from those who dont have physical consoles anymore but want to play the game via emulation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzip Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 7 minutes ago, Gemintronic said: My experience with digital downloads is that they are a very hard sell even at $2.00. Digital downloads also kill sales of physical carts. I am trying digital downloads for small games that don't take 6 months to make. Maybe small steps are needed for both developers and retro gamers. Another option is to sell digital versions in the packaged versions of games. You could get low-capacity SD or USB sticks cheap in bulk and include the rom and digital versions of the manuals on them. But you still get the packaging and physical manuals.. Or maybe even include both the cart and SD card in the same package! Collectors hate digital because you typically don't get the physical goods, but I often wonder why it has to be either/or. I'm sure there are some people who both want the freedom of digital AND something to display on their shelf 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prizrak Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 My experience with digital downloads is that they are a very hard sell even at $2.00. Digital downloads also kill sales of physical carts. I am trying digital downloads for small games that don't take 6 months to make. Maybe small steps are needed for both developers and retro gamers.What games do you offer in digital format? I'm interested. Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrZarniwoop Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 Here's what I posted elsewhere: I tried to think through the economics of costs and some margin for development and distribution when I proposed the $9.99 (deep backcatalog)/$14.99 (normal backcatalog)/$19.99 (new releases) pricing scale for digital distribution of homebrews and the +$4.99 as add-on to a cart. I have to think if it's less, it'll risk turning a labor of love and community service into servitude. Anyone thinking $1 a game for 2600/7800 homebrews has the wrong paradigm. The phone is in everyone's pocket, so a good hit can be 10,000+ orders and add-ons or even 10x that or 100x that or more. I imagine a hit in the 2600/7800 homebrew scene is maybe a few hundred copies in all. I believe $1-$2 homebrew ROMs would end up killing any incentive to make games. It's fine as a "thank you" for what would otherwise be free distribution for love of the game. But that's all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prizrak Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 It will definitely allow these games to be available to a wider audience (Harmony Cart owners, Stella users, etc.) Of course piracy is always a thing, but I think at this point most of us in these forums are here because we enjoy seeing new titles being developed for these old systems, and the majority are happy to support the developers so that they can continue to bring us fun games. I would hazard a guess that even if these games eventually end up in ROM packs for Retropie or whatever, the casual folks that are going check them out for 30 seconds represent about %0 lost revenue potential.I think piracy now isn't as big as it was back in the day. Consoles have become tougher to crack and the average Joe doesn't dabble in it anymore unless it's retro games of yesteryear where money is no longer being made on that product by the company if it still exists. I think the 2600/5200/7800 is a safe place to get that is there was any going on it's not perceptible due to the size of the audience (age plays a factor too). Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Gemintronic Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 2 minutes ago, zzip said: Another option is to sell digital versions in the packaged versions of games. You could get low-capacity SD or USB sticks cheap in bulk and include the rom and digital versions of the manuals on them. But you still get the packaging and physical manuals.. Or maybe even include both the cart and SD card in the same package! Collectors hate digital because you typically don't get the physical goods, but I often wonder why it has to be either/or. I'm sure there are some people who both want the freedom of digital AND something to display on their shelf Probably back to the piracy issue. I've tried to convince Paulo to add encryption to Javatari but I'm my charisma stat is busted My "party favors" are on Itch: https://theloon.itch.io/ ..and, I agree. I think most retro enthusiasts purchase digital downloads as a "thank you". Since many of my games are already in ROM packs I know it's entirely optional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neotokeo2001 Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 The short answer is everyone wants a BIN/ROM but they don't want to pay for it. As mentioned before, people have made them available for sub $5 and no one buys them. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 (edited) IMO, who is here for the money is wasting his time. Edited March 12, 2021 by Thomas Jentzsch 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Gemintronic Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 5 minutes ago, Thomas Jentzsch said: IMO, who is here for the money is wasting his time. I think that goes for game dev in general. Unless you want to sell your soul to EA or Zynga types. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s0c7 Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 I usually release my roms (all the way up to the final) as I go through testing to get the largest testing pool, but this sort of thing does make you think twice about doing it. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youxia Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 33 minutes ago, neotokeo2001 said: The short answer is everyone wants a BIN/ROM but they don't want to pay for it. As mentioned before, people have made them available for sub $5 and no one buys them. I don't know the 2600 scene but it seems odd. On the microcomputer side most boxed releases also have a digital equivalent. They seem to be doing allright. I buy digital all the time, because boxed versions are a bit too dear for me. Also, piracy is nothing like it was in the past. Sure, some people would still do that, though that could be those who won't buy anyway, and I'm convinced the majority would make a purchase. We're mostly old farts with some income, not broke-ass teens like back in the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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