robbievgb Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 Is there a handy list of the caps and/or components to replace when reconditioning an XEGS? I'm sending mine off to my modder to socket the custom chips so I can have the option to install some mods and I was going to have him do a cap refresh and general maintenance as a well but I can't seem to find a comprehensive list. I could go through the diagrams myself but I am lazy and thought I'd ask here first. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faicuai Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 (edited) There is no need to recap anything, unless bulged-up laterally, on the top, or loose at their insertion point. Capacitors are only replaced when specifically tested out-of-spec. Edited March 12, 2021 by Faicuai Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+kheller2 Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 I don't meant to upset the original poster... but I think we need to really start educating people on the history of "bad caps." 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manterola Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, kheller2 said: I don't meant to upset the original poster... but I think we need to really start educating people on the history of "bad caps." That or start selling cap sets for Atari computers... Cheapest ones you can get to maximize profit ;-) Edited March 12, 2021 by manterola Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+kheller2 Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 2 minutes ago, manterola said: That or start selling cap sets for Atari computers... Cheapest ones you can get to maximize profit ;-) I had a BSR/ADC EQ that I had to replace almost all the caps on.. they were all dead and shot, leaking and what not. Besides the late 90s to mid 00s stolen formula issue, I've rarely seen caps go through normal usage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbievgb Posted March 12, 2021 Author Share Posted March 12, 2021 I understand it's not "needed" its just typical maintenance I have done to everything I have go in for a mod or install while they're in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 I think I am going to start a trend of replacing old wire in houses, cars, everywhere. Think of all the wear and tear from those electrons vibrating that electricity. But - think of all the money I can make selling new wire. Oxygen free copper, or even silver! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbievgb Posted March 12, 2021 Author Share Posted March 12, 2021 Thanks for the helpful replies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin1968 Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 Monitor cap kits are very common for arcade machines. As well as PCB cap kits. I have done hundreds. So why wouldn’t it be a good thing for these old machines? Nothing but smart ass answers from people who all seem to have the same opinion. Why not replace them if you are already in there? Caps do go bad with age and these are all getting old. Plus they are cheap. How about constructive answers and not a bunch of smart asses? He was just asking a question. Gezz. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manterola Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 (edited) Robbie, Changing caps seems not necessary for Atari 8 bits unless there is a noticeable problem with one of them. It is very uncommon in Atari 8 bits world that machines need cap replacement, therefore the list you want is not readily and widely available, and probably there is no market for caps set, either. You will need to check yourself in Atari service manual and other documentation. Edit: sorry. You need xegs documentation, not 130xe Edited March 12, 2021 by manterola 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 The only caps I've seen out of spec on the Atari's in 40+ years were caps in 1050's due to heat, power filter caps in power supplies (due to heat and line power issues storms etc), those in direct line from power inrush near power switches, the Atari 1200XL reset circuit, and some video circuits (usually due to static discharge, dc back feed or looping issues. In all cases they were polarized/electrolytic caps. As people are telling you, if the caps are in spec they may last forever. If they are marginal or out of spec, by all means replace them. But consider the work involved vs the possible damage to the machine vs how very small the percentage of actual failure has existed historically. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+kheller2 Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 1 hour ago, robbievgb said: Thanks for the helpful replies. Please don't take this as being negative/abusive. This topic comes up now at least twice a month. To answer your question, no there isn't a general list of caps to replace in the XEGS, one would have to be created, AFAIK, and its probably more work and danger to damaging the lesser quality boards. If you are having someone professional socket the custom chips, I would suggest you have all the chips socketed and you will be set for a long time! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+kheller2 Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 1 hour ago, Gavin1968 said: Monitor cap kits are very common for arcade machines. As well as PCB cap kits. I have done hundreds. So why wouldn’t it be a good thing for these old machines? Nothing but smart ass answers from people who all seem to have the same opinion. Why not replace them if you are already in there? Caps do go bad with age and these are all getting old. Plus they are cheap. How about constructive answers and not a bunch of smart asses? He was just asking a question. Gezz. Yes they are popular for the high voltage systems and the power supplies (or a newer better power supply). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 There was a batch of 65XE's and XL's that had some iffy caps in the audio area once upon a time. The issue would be no sound or low volume levels. Sometime the op amp would be dead... so there's that. Again very low percentage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 2 hours ago, Gavin1968 said: How about constructive answers and not a bunch of smart asses? He was just asking a question. Gezz. Believe it or not, we are trying to help. not just the OP, but anyone else wondering. Seeing wrong information once is one thing. Seeing it hundreds or thousands of times gets downright annoying, especially when trying to correct flat out wrong information. Maybe I am stubborn, but if people want to continually post that recapping for the sake of recapping is required or a good idea, I will post a fact stating that it is a waste of time and a myth. Simple as that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazzspeed Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 (edited) There was a period, around the mid 90s/early 2000's where electrolytic capacitors were of dubious quality. Due to the fact that such capacitors contain electrolyte, which is acidic, if an electrical device falls within this period - And especially if the device has not been used for an extended period of time, personally I'd be replacing the capacitors. People have their opinions on the matter, I've seen enough capacitor issues related to electronics that fall within the period highlighted above that I have my opinion on the matter. Capacitors do fail, and when they do they can damage precious PCB's worse than ham fisted desoldering - That's quite factual. Edited March 13, 2021 by Mazzspeed 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGB1718 Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 Just my thoughts, yes, I've re-capped 2 1050 drives after they had been sat in a damp garage for 15 years, but I've been in the electronics field for 50+ years and never had to replaced a capacitor that had failed. I know they do, but it is rarer than you would think. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazzspeed Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 3 minutes ago, TGB1718 said: Just my thoughts, yes, I've re-capped 2 1050 drives after they had been sat in a damp garage for 15 years, but I've been in the electronics field for 50+ years and never had to replaced a capacitor that had failed. I know they do, but it is rarer than you would think. It must be an environmental thing then...Because I've replaced plenty. I'm sure I've even got pics of a few. During the mid 90's to early 2000's, electrolytic capacitors were total garbage. The only thing worse is the VARTA NiCad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 Can't say I've had to change many caps on old machines, the most prone stuff to go was the more complex items like voltage regs (yeah not overly complex I know) and IC's. I thinks its been 3 or 4 caps on the power supply part of the circuit that had bulged and or leaked. The most caps I had to change was on a new Sony item where I know 6 of the SMD caps had died so I changed the lot as it seemed a quality of component thing in this case as opposed to a known issue. I do think we need to address askers with a little bit more understanding though In Robbies case he knew there was not a need but he just wanted to 'service' the item which I know is quite a standard wish in many fields. If there's not a post in the faq there needs to and we can just point to that with a few little whys and why nots when it comes to this. Things like lifting old tracks on boards especially if a person is using way too much heat in the iron and leaving the tip on too long. Stuff like that for the hobbyist who may not be in to doing electronic repairs but trying their luck. Conversely if a cap is bulging or there's gunk on the pcb in the direct area of the cap then it will need to be changed by a person with the appropriate skill. I think we need to hold off hang, drawing and quartering them... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+kheller2 Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 5 hours ago, Mazzspeed said: It must be an environmental thing then...Because I've replaced plenty. I'm sure I've even got pics of a few. During the mid 90's to early 2000's, electrolytic capacitors were total garbage. The only thing worse is the VARTA NiCad. I would completely expect that anything in the late 90s to the mid 2000s was garbage and needed to be replaced. There is even a brief wiki page about that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague I also would agree that environment plays a role too: stored in an attic, in a barn, heavily used 24x7, never used at all, humidity, and so on. Circling back to the original poster's question... if he is having someone re-do ALL the chips, then redoing the caps isn't much more.. but at that point, I would be calling BEST or finding a bare board to start with from scratch and just build it up that way. I *wish* there were bare XE and XEGS boards out there we could build on. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazzspeed Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 4 hours ago, kheller2 said: I would completely expect that anything in the late 90s to the mid 2000s was garbage and needed to be replaced. There is even a brief wiki page about that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague I also would agree that environment plays a role too: stored in an attic, in a barn, heavily used 24x7, never used at all, humidity, and so on. Circling back to the original poster's question... if he is having someone re-do ALL the chips, then redoing the caps isn't much more.. but at that point, I would be calling BEST or finding a bare board to start with from scratch and just build it up that way. I *wish* there were bare XE and XEGS boards out there we could build on. 100%. Like certain XL's, the caps in the audio stage of the A1200 are renowned for failure, and when they fail they take the board with them. I've had caps bulge and begin to leak on the motherboard I use as a basis for my Pentium III Tualatin system, when I installed the board they were fine, a couple of weeks later they were beginning to leak - I have no idea how long the board was sitting around for before I used it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugarland Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 A good technician should have the caps on hand and be able to swap them on sight. I've never seen an XE with bad caps personally. I have one 1050 with a leaking cap but the drive still works fine ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazzspeed Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, Sugarland said: A good technician should have the caps on hand and be able to swap them on sight. I've never seen an XE with bad caps personally. I have one 1050 with a leaking cap but the drive still works fine ? I would personally be replacing them. As stated, it's not uncommon for leaking caps to damage the board. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbievgb Posted March 13, 2021 Author Share Posted March 13, 2021 Again, just thought I'd have my modder do some preventative maintenance while he was in there. I realize the caps in the Xegs are not prone to failure, but I dont know the personal history of this console and where is has been stored the last 30 years, also given it was released in the Tramiel Era (something I've noticed other posters bring up in other xegs repair topics), and at the tail end of the 80s, I figured it wouldn't hurt. Maybe it's foolish to spend my money on something that might not be needed but that's my choice and I'd rather not find out the hard way. My modder is an engineer who does mod work and console repair on the side and does great work so I don't have any concerns about him doing more harm than good. He had nothing to do with my wanting to replace the caps, that was completely my decision. Over the years I have looked for spare boards or boards with socketed chips to do a swap with including contacting Best Electronics, but to no avail. Maybe I should've titled the post XEGS preventative maintenence or something like that instead, I didn't think I'd trigger such a controversial topic. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 @robbievgb Don't sweat it Robbie, I think some of the guys were on a grumpy day Glad you have a good engineer and I think many see the idea of a service as not being a bad idea but the notion of "if it aint broke then don't fix it" is also on their thoughts. From experience these folks know that in general Atari 8 bits were well built with decent components. Paul. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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