bB:New Tool for creating PF + 48 px title screens (functional WIP)

[kisrael]

Yeah, I love o-matics (and -a-trons, and -inators)

I think the first one was Veg-O-Matic?

But the most imporant one: https://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/bassomatic/n8631
"WOW! THATS TERRIFIC BASS!"

[+D Train]

can't believe that I missed both veg-O-matic and the bass-O-matic.  my game is slipping

 

splashinator is good also!

[+Karl G]

Don't forget the handy dandy Sledge-o-Matic:

 

 

[kisrael]

NEW NAME: It is now the splash-o-matic 2600 (given its usefulness for splash screens)

AND A NEW URL: https://alienbill.com/2600/splash-o-matic/

AND A NEW FEATURE... colors! Thanks to Karl Garrison's nifty kernel work, you can now have a nifty (if unoptimized) kernel that changes the color every scanline.

 

TEASER: thinking about what might make this more and more useful... wouldn't a text tool be cool? Maybe with fonts at various sizes...

 

Hope the UI for changing the color makes sense to people... basically when making a color kernel "color" is a tool much like the draw tool, but instead of painting pixels it changes just those lines to the currently selected foreground color. (it also hints at the color for each scan line by drawing the color on the right side)  I might do an explainer youtube once more features get in and things are more stable. 

[+Gemintronic]

For those who would like to have access to this wonderful tool even without Internet you're in luck:

 

Download the source and extract the folder to somewhere useful on your hard drive.  Usually you can click on the index.html contained within and your default web browser will pop up with your now local copy of Splash-O-Matic!

 

https://github.com/kirkjerk/splash-o-matic

[kisrael]

13 hours ago, Gemintronic said:

For those who would like to have access to this wonderful tool even without Internet you're in luck:

 

Download the source and extract the folder to somewhere useful on your hard drive.  Usually you can click on the index.html contained within and your default web browser will pop up with your now local copy of Splash-O-Matic!

 

https://github.com/kirkjerk/splash-o-matic

Is "offline use" an important ability for people? I could emphasize it more in the UI...

I feel I'm in a "friendly rivalry" with all other similar atari dev tools (some of which are windows-only local apps) to make the friendliest and most powerful tools so anything that helps broaden the appeal (and is easy to do) helps!

[+Gemintronic]

5 hours ago, kisrael said:

Is "offline use" an important ability for people? I could emphasize it more in the UI...

I feel I'm in a "friendly rivalry" with all other similar atari dev tools (some of which are windows-only local apps) to make the friendliest and most powerful tools so anything that helps broaden the appeal (and is easy to do) helps!

 

I find that either I'm in a place without Internet or my own service poops itself.  So, I make local copies of web based tools.

 

So, at least try and keep the ability to run locally a thing if you could.  I suspect it would also make it easy to include in someones full IDE just by launching a local copy.

[kisrael]

[kisrael]

Now with cut/copy/paste functionality. I think this will get the job done rather than providing an explicit "shove all pixels left, right, up, or down"

[KevKelley]

This keeps getting better! And I for one like offline functionality, as I tend to use my laptop in places I have no connectivity.

[kisrael]

Now with import from image file! Everything is still handled in the browser... it stretches the image to be the full "screen", then breaks into black and white, you can fiddle with the contrast:

[+Gemintronic]

I'm probably missing something, as usual.  I press the [ Choose File ] button and select a 48x96 bitmap file.  Nothing happens.  Tried a local copy from github as well.

Untitled.bmp

[kisrael]

Hah

12 minutes ago, Gemintronic said:

I'm probably missing something, as usual.  I press the [ Choose File ] button and select a 48x96 bitmap file.  Nothing happens.  Tried a local copy from github as well.

Untitled.bmp 13.55 kB · 0 downloads

Ha, sorry, shoulda mentioned everyone who uses it now is my beta tester

In this case the first issue is I guess it only works with "web" formats - png, gif(?), jpg... 
 

second issue is, after I changed it to PNG but didn't change the height, the default contrast made it like all black

but once I made sure the height of in the editor matched the height of the png, it came out great.

 

So the core more or less works, but it needs to be better documented about file format, should be more clear on errors and progress, and maybe even "auto adjust" contrast the first time to maximize the number of pixels shown!

 

thanks for trying it out, and sorry it's still rough

[+Karl G]

That's awesome! Thanks for providing such a useful tool!

[kisrael]

1 minute ago, Karl G said:

That's awesome! Thanks for providing such a useful tool!

Thanks for your kernel! (I might hit you up later for some more vanilla kernels for PFs, if you're willing to collaborate??)

Some of those I'm just being intellectually lazy - like once you get the bit order right, one color per line PF kernels aren't THAT hard, but I am SO rusty with everything in assembly. 

Also for bB, I should look at some of the best practices for partial kernels or what not, like if you can have a graphic kernel combined with more regular stuff on other parts of the screen.

[+Karl G]

8 minutes ago, kisrael said:

Thanks for your kernel! (I might hit you up later for some more vanilla kernels for PFs, if you're willing to collaborate??)

Some of those I'm just being intellectually lazy - like once you get the bit order right, one color per line PF kernels aren't THAT hard, but I am SO rusty with everything in assembly.

I'm happy to provide ASM code for anything feasible that you want to put a front end onto for sure.

 

9 minutes ago, kisrael said:

Also for bB, I should look at some of the best practices for partial kernels or what not, like if you can have a graphic kernel combined with more regular stuff on other parts of the screen.

 

You can't combine normal bB kernel stuff with a custom kernel like this. Using the Titlescreen Kernel, you can divide the screen into different parts with different types of kernels to comprise a game title screen or equivalent, e.g. 48 and 96 pixel images, the score, and player graphics. The only platform/GUI dependency it has has is a Windows utility to convert images to output the Titlescreen Kernel can use, so my personal wish is that your nifty new tool could eventually output data that could be used for Titlescreen Kernel images as well.

 

[kisrael]

4 minutes ago, Karl G said:

I'm happy to provide ASM code for anything feasible that you want to put a front end onto for sure.

Great!

4 minutes ago, Karl G said:

You can't combine normal bB kernel stuff with a custom kernel like this. Using the Titlescreen Kernel, you can divide the screen into different parts with different types of kernels to comprise a game title screen or equivalent, e.g. 48 and 96 pixel images, the score, and player graphics. The only platform/GUI dependency it has has is a Windows utility to convert images to output the Titlescreen Kernel can use, so my personal wish is that your nifty new tool could eventually output data that could be used for Titlescreen Kernel images as well.

yeah, that's what I was thinking of! So basically it's learning how to generate those .asm files? The `48x2_5_image.asm` and what not? If you're willing to how me think through it (and I'm moving in a few weeks and I think my ancient windows laptop is packed), help me set up the templates and how to fill them, I'd be happy to give it a shot. 

Looks like it's mostly doing the work of Img2Code

Oh wait... 96x2?? Wow, is that DPC+ or closer to vanilla? 

(heh just thought of another nice-to-have for splash-o-matic: just mentioning how many bytes of data we've made (no promises about how much is left in the actual code, jsut how much raw graphics data we're talking so far)

[KevKelley]

This is beyond amazing, as I have such a hard time using the Titlescreen editor in VbB. Now I need to finish Crossdock so I can use this on my next game!

[+Karl G]

41 minutes ago, kisrael said:

yeah, that's what I was thinking of! So basically it's learning how to generate those .asm files? The `48x2_5_image.asm` and what not? If you're willing to how me think through it (and I'm moving in a few weeks and I think my ancient windows laptop is packed), help me set up the templates and how to fill them, I'd be happy to give it a shot. 

Awesome! Definitely no hurry. I'm happy to help with that, and it's guessing it's not as difficult as you may be thinking it is, either. If you can output splash screen data with colors, then outputting data for the Titlescreen Kernel images is not going to be any more difficult.

 

44 minutes ago, kisrael said:

Looks like it's mostly doing the work of Img2Code

Yup! Replacing the need to convert images using that would be very welcome, as yours is a cross-platform solution that has a maintainer.

 

45 minutes ago, kisrael said:

Oh wait... 96x2?? Wow, is that DPC+ or closer to vanilla?

The Titlescreen Kernel can work with projects that make use of any of the supported bB kernels including DPC+, but it does not need or make use of hardware assistance from the ARM for DPC+ kernel games. A 96-pixel kernel is really just a 48-pixel kernel that is more spread out, and flickered in a fancy way (flickerblinds) to achieve the 96 pixel width.

[kisrael]

  

16 minutes ago, KevKelley said:

This is beyond amazing, as I have such a hard time using the Titlescreen editor in VbB. Now I need to finish Crossdock so I can use this on my next game!

I will never stop giving vbB props - for over a decade it really made a cool ramp for lots of people to get started. 

But that said, I've always found it overwhelming, hard to setup properly, hard to understand, and Windows-only. And not supported for a long while now.

 

So I'd love to build browser-based/cross-platform tools, all of which spit out runnable demo code, and between my tools and Atari Dev Studio, really eliminate the need for VbB.
Maybe I can even make a play to get my tools embedded in Atari Dev Studio  
I'd love to to be the go-to for both bB and ASM coders.

But because I never got a long with vbb, I don't know what it offers that my tools don't (yet). @Random Terrain has a list. There are parts in the code compleition etc I wonder if Atari Dev Studio could do better... shoulda paid more attention as I built Sisyphus

 

 

[kisrael]

16 minutes ago, Karl G said:

Awesome! Definitely no hurry. I'm happy to help with that, and it's guessing it's not as difficult as you may be thinking it is, either. If you can output splash screen data with colors, then outputting data for the Titlescreen Kernel images is not going to be any more difficult.

Yeah. that PDF tries to be friendly, but it's a complex subject w/ all those little files!

Of course looking at it... one of the differences between player-pal and splash-o-matic was the latter didn't have to worry about frames of animation.

But maybe I'll support that as well, rather than make people build up spritesheets.
Maybe splash-o-matic can "eat" player-pal  (and THEN what do I name things  ) 

[+Random Terrain]

1 hour ago, kisrael said:

 So I'd love to build browser-based/cross-platform tools, all of which spit out runnable demo code, and between my tools and Atari Dev Studio, really eliminate the need for VbB.

 

I'd love online tools that are similar to or better than what VbB has. Atari Dev Studio makes me nervous. All it takes is a burn out or a death and you're screwed. No more updates. No new updated and integrated version of Stella. At least a full collection of online tools can be adjusted and updated by people who know the language if the creator burns out or dies.

 

 

Here's that list from another post:

 

---------------------------------------------------------------

I still use VbB on my Windows 10 computer. It has so many tools that Atari Dev Studio doesn't have so far. One thing that VbB has that I don't like is the stupid ancient built-in browser that you need to disable the first time you run VbB. After you get past that, it has a code editor, a sprite editor, a playfield editor, a score editor, a music and sound effects editor, a graphics converter, a Title Screen Kernel editor, and probably a few other things that I'm forgetting.

 

 It would also be hard to give up all of the code editor options in the right click menu that include Audit Variables, Audit Goto/Gosub, Find Next, Find Label, Identify Current Bank, Force Minimum Spacing, Flip Text, and Add Bookmark.

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[RevEng]

13 minutes ago, Random Terrain said:

I'd love online tools that are similar to or better than what VbB has. Atari Dev Studio makes me nervous. All it takes is a burn out or a death and you're screwed. No more updates. No new updated and integrated version of Stella. At least a full collection of online tools can be adjusted and updated by people who know the language if the creator burns out or dies.

To be fair, the integrated emulators are just plain copies of the emulators added for convenience. You can point ADS to another copy of the same emulator. It doesn't do anything fancy and should last as long as the emulator supports the same command-line options.

 

If the ADS dev gets bored like Jeff did, we're lucky enough to have the source code and license to carry on. The one weakness I'll grant, is it's tied into a Microsoft product.

 

IMO the license is what matters more than whether it's a browser based tool or not. (and is Free in both cases here)

[kisrael]

2 minutes ago, Random Terrain said:

 

I'd love online tools that are similar to or better than what VbB has. Atari Dev Studio makes me nervous. All it takes is a burn out or a death and you're screwed. No more updates. No new updated and integrated version of Stella. At least a full collection of online tools can be adjusted and updated by people who know the language if the creator burns out or dies.

 

 

Here's that list from another post:

 

---------------------------------------------------------------

I still use VbB on my Windows 10 computer. It has so many tools that Atari Dev Studio doesn't have so far. One thing that VbB has that I don't like is the stupid ancient built-in browser that you need to disable the first time you run VbB. After you get past that, it has a code editor, a sprite editor, a playfield editor, a score editor, a music and sound effects editor, a graphics converter, a Title Screen Kernel editor, and probably a few other things that I'm forgetting.

 

 It would also be hard to give up all of the code editor options in the right click menu that include Audit Variables, Audit Goto/Gosub, Find Next, Find Label, Identify Current Bank, Force Minimum Spacing, Flip Text, and Add Bookmark.

---------------------------------------------------------------

Yeah. Online isn't enough - like we can't trust tools with a server side part to stay around, unless they are both open-source and have a well-understood build process. But all my tools are either in github or are like single-files or have no build or both. If I get hit by a bus, it wouldn't be too tough for a skillful javascript coder to carry on. 

(on the other hand... a fully online, server IDE could have bB and DASM... that would be interesting. But I haven't seen many rich in-browser code editors)
 

Interesting point about your wariness of ADS. It doesn't make me nervous as VBB- or maybe that's why you are nervous, because you've lived through so much software you dig being so abandoned.

But, like, it would be a lot easier to build a tutorial that explains "here's how you would get by without ADS" than the same for VBB - like download bB and DASM and you should be ok as long as you know how to use a command line a bit. ADS doesn't DO that much, so it's kind of transparent, but like I've said before, VBB and its options to drag and drop things and what not... it takes a new dev further away from the truth that "your game is basically all made by a big text file"

 

it's been interesting thinking about the text features you like, and what workarounds I'm comfortable with as a fulltime programmer. (like Add Bookmark I just "add a comment I can ctrl-F find later", Flip Text I would use a different tool etc,) of course other stuff is not so easy to externalize.

[kisrael]

1 minute ago, RevEng said:

IMO the license is what matters more than whether it's a browser based tool or not. (and is Free in both cases here)

Yup! browser is just an easy way to get multiplatform, windows/mac and presumably linux 

And beyond just license and open source... how esoteric/common and/or easy to learn is the technology used?

PlayerPal is ancient vanilla javascript. atari-sound-forger is also vanilla. atari-riff-machine is react (probably a mistake  on my part in retrospect) and spash-o-matic is p5, but mostly vanilla js... some other one off PF editors are p5.

But there are some projects that don't explain their build process very well, and raise the barrier to a new coder stepping in.

PlayerPal had the equivalent of a Pull Request, which is some of what got me moving on this project - hearing people ask for PlayerPal to better handle 48px sprites made me think.. there's gotta be a better way