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2 hours ago, kenames99 said:

I just added a schematic pdf so anyone with a pdf viewer can see it without having to install KiCAD.

Nice! I just grabbed it. Very well done, and I hadn't realized it had such a complicated power supply. looks like it was meant to supply the 10V to each board, and then there would be local regulation to recreate the 5V if you needed more current beyond the 5VREF.

 

Did you ever generate gerbers and the drill file? I was trying to find them on your github but was coming up blank.

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hi,

  I did generate them, and now they are there. I am pretty new to this github thing, it is strange but getting there. the gerbers are all there now. the schematic can also be misleading because not all the 74LS ttl chips are used. use either U4, U5, and U7 or U4a, U5a, and U7a. not all 6 at the same time. I put 3D images in the images dir and photos of the original 1090 board in the images/orig_photo/ directory. you will see when you compare those, and everyone else that reads this and looks.

 

  Yea, the power supply is a beast and is one area that should be cleaned up a LOT imho. raw 10V goes to each slot/plugin board and gets regulated down to whatever the card needs. 5V ref seems a bit redundant to me but, meh.

 

enjoy

Ken

 

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On 3/17/2021 at 10:26 PM, kenames99 said:

hi,

  I did generate them, and now they are there. I am pretty new to this github thing, it is strange but getting there. the gerbers are all there now. the schematic can also be misleading because not all the 74LS ttl chips are used. use either U4, U5, and U7 or U4a, U5a, and U7a. not all 6 at the same time. I put 3D images in the images dir and photos of the original 1090 board in the images/orig_photo/ directory. you will see when you compare those, and everyone else that reads this and looks.

 

  Yea, the power supply is a beast and is one area that should be cleaned up a LOT imho. raw 10V goes to each slot/plugin board and gets regulated down to whatever the card needs. 5V ref seems a bit redundant to me but, meh.

 

enjoy

Ken

 

If I remember from the preliminary docs on my site the extra chips were there from the original idea of adding three additional slots, (5 -> 8 ) and providing additional signal buffers.  By the time the proto boards were actually made, they had cut down the number of slots, but apparently were still thinking additional signals needed buffering.   All of the specs were in constant motion, so it's not surprising that the board didn't quite jive. 

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Along with the discussion of what cards would be used with it, I look across all of the cartridge hardware devices I have strewn about. The Veronica Cart and the AtariMax USB cart are two that would be nice to have as a cards, freeing up the cartridge port. I would also like an IDE+ card, along with 80 columns. There are a ton of devices that would be pretty awesome. The big issue is the size of the 1090 box, that thing looks really tall. 🙂

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Regarding cards, the best places to start would likely be with a memory expansion (amount TBD) and an 80-column card.  Documentation (to some extent) already exists for both, and both are items that crop up fairly regularly on various folks' wishlists.

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55 minutes ago, x=usr(1536) said:

Regarding cards, the best places to start would likely be with a memory expansion (amount TBD) and an 80-column card.  Documentation (to some extent) already exists for both, and both are items that crop up fairly regularly on various folks' wishlists.

Agreed. A CP/M card would be 3rd. Z80’s are cheap and the card can include a super-cheap dedicated 64K or 128K SRAM as well. Architect it to simply use the Atari as a display and I/O interface and done. 

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Posted (edited)

This is a very good project idea. I’m interested if there are 80 col and mem expansion cards developed.  Someone should get original Scans, measurements And specs from the box At the museum to have these cases 3D printed exactly identical to the r&d unit if this hasn’t been done already. ?  Actually, thinking more about it, why not just reproduce the fully intact And mostly working unit At the museum in Texas? It has all the cards in it and only needs drivers redeveloped apparently.  Why reinvent the wheel?  It’s sitting there already just waiting to be finished. And it’s 90% done. This is likely the Atari crown jewel of products that were completed and then trashed that we were so close to getting in 1983/84 just before it was DOA. 

Edited by YSG2020

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Hello guys

 

Eight slots would be very nice.  And if that makes the box too long, just turn it over 90 degrees.  (Yes, that's easier said than done)

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy

 

PS I'm not saying there should be only one version of the 1090.   :D

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Posted (edited)

Looking at it closely I’m amazed at how ahead of its time this device and design was for ‘83 and how PCs that followed a decade later adopted this near exact same expansion design (Along with USB) which was also used by IBM and Compaq originally.   I have very little doubt that Atari could have given not only Apple but the PC clones a serious competitive run for their money if things had gone down differently in ‘84. Can you imagine if Commodore or the Tramiels never existed? Atari would have Completely dominated and I doubt Wozniak and Jobs would have ever left. 

Edited by YSG2020

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On 3/19/2021 at 7:17 AM, gozar said:

Along with the discussion of what cards would be used with it, I look across all of the cartridge hardware devices I have strewn about. The Veronica Cart and the AtariMax USB cart are two that would be nice to have as a cards, freeing up the cartridge port. I would also like an IDE+ card, along with 80 columns. There are a ton of devices that would be pretty awesome. The big issue is the size of the 1090 box, that thing looks really tall. 🙂

hi gozar,

  it is not tall at all, that view is from top looking down. it is rather tall if you look from front to back, it is 9" or 9.5" or something like that. I would like to see the power supply portion redone but that is getting away from original that we were going for.

 

Ken

 

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Posted (edited)
On 3/19/2021 at 5:53 AM, Dropcheck said:

If I remember from the preliminary docs on my site the extra chips were there from the original idea of adding three additional slots, (5 -> 8 ) and providing additional signal buffers.  By the time the proto boards were actually made, they had cut down the number of slots, but apparently were still thinking additional signals needed buffering.   All of the specs were in constant motion, so it's not surprising that the board didn't quite jive. 

hi,

  the extra chips are to replace the ones that are there. the ones in original photos are 74LS244, you could remove those and put 74LS541 chips in the other places and have the same thing. all the schematics from atari for their original designs are on atarimuseum.com so if anyone sopts an error they are welcome to tell me so I can check and fix anything. I actually met with warerat last evening and he pointed out a couple things I need to check and / or correct.

 

Ken

 

PS: yea I forgot to mention kheller2 provided the direct link to atari museum website/

Edited by kenames99
forgot credit info
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On 3/19/2021 at 3:06 PM, Mathy said:

Hello guys

 

Eight slots would be very nice.  And if that makes the box too long, just turn it over 90 degrees.  (Yes, that's easier said than done)

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy

 

PS I'm not saying there should be only one version of the 1090.   :D

hi Mathy,

  like I pointed out in an earlier post, the plug-in cards are huge! with current technology you could fit 2 or more types of device on a single card. the possibilities are almost endless.

 

Ken

 

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Posted (edited)

Hello Ken

 

1 hour ago, kenames99 said:

with current technology you could fit 2 or more types of device on a single card. the possibilities are almost endless.

 

I know.  But I'd still like eight slots.  :-D

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy

 

PS I upgraded my Macbook Air from 128 GB to 1 TB SSD a while ago.  Now I have this SSD that I don't know what to do with.  If somebody could design a card for the 1090 that would take the SSD...  |:)

Edited by Mathy
Added that smiley

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1 hour ago, kenames99 said:

with current technology you could fit 2 or more types of device on a single card. the possibilities are almost endless.

Indeed (italics mine). Although I didn't do a good job of it, that was essentially what I was trying to convey earlier. I too would still like 8 slots though :)

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note from Curt- I was curious that someone may have seen a 1090 that was the original first spec which was supposed to have 8 slots....

the known cards being

1) Atari Z-80 CP/M Expansion Card

2) Atari 80 Column Video Card

3) Atari 64K Memory Card

4) Atari Serial/Parallel Card

5) Atari Prototyping/Hobbyist Card

6) Atari BSR/RTC X10 Card

7) AMY Expansion Card

8) Parallel Disk Drive Controller

 

another note from Curt,

there are a couple of 1090's floating around that have the Julie FIFO buffer circuit on them, it was an earlier design where Atari was adding buffering in (personally I think that was the better route) but it was removed all together either on the 1090's and as a separate external box between the XL and the 1090. I have plenty of notes referencing the Julie FIFO but no engineering schematics or proof any were made but I would suspect they must've made some.

I would like to find those who own 1090's that have the buffer built in just to see the motherboards. I have all of the engineering schematics and mechanic drawings for the 1090 and I have talked with some sheet metal places on have the chassis's made and the front bezel would need to have tooling done to stamp them out. The 1090's could be made in mass and it would be great if everyone who's made various PBI boards would move their designs to the standard 1090 card form factor to plug into these new 1090's. Maybe the VBXE could be done as a PBI device instead or someone could just do a basic video card with 128k of ram on it for the video ram and we could get a 16 color VGA type mode at 640 x 200 or perhaps even at 480...

 

It was clearly his wish and hope to see both version of the 1090 done, we discussed a 7 slot version as well. And a bit of talk about the Julia (buffering) cable and the internal buffer as well. He had so much material to work through. He was also dumping ROMS from 8 inch drive SIO cards and was up to 4 or five variants at the time.

 

The other thing bouncing around was possible to put the 800 left side board into card form as well... which is a bit of the serial/parallel card isn't it?

Why 8 slots might become 7 and then 5 for the 1090, we might not have exact answers for. I think an 8 card developers 1090 and a 5 card consumer 1090 might have been a reasonable explanation... but things often came down to cost and size.

 

That's about all I could dig up from old PM's and emails... Hopefully others will share as well.

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Well if you want 8 or more slots go for it. Ken has given you all the KiCad files he created to get you started :) .

 

Personally I agree with the suggestion that with present technology multiple functions could be implemented on a single card, so this greatly diminishes the need for extra slots. Probably of more importance would be to eliminate the parallel 50 conductor ribbon cable and go with a high speed serial connection instead. Thereby allowing for a small interconnect cable, and at the same time perhaps make something that can work reliably over a greater distance so that the 1090 can be located in a better spot then directly behind the computer. This could be done as a set of adapters, with one plugged into the Computer and the other plugged into the 1090 with something like a USB cable between.

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hi everyone,

  just uploaded all the files I had done for the 1066 xl ram expansion card for the 1090xl. that is the only card I ever got done. I think I got it done anyway. the original schematic is under the images directory. as always, the original documents and drawings that I worked from can be found at atarimuseum.com. if you find any mistakes or omissions feel free to let me know. I hope everyone enjoys this.

 

Ken

 

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Posted (edited)

hi,

  I found some badly placed routes in the 1090.kicad_pcb (board layout) so I corrected that and the board looks better now. I uploaded a new board file. If anyone sees or finds any mistakes then please feel free to let me know. I have not generated or uploaded new gerber files so those will need to be generated by you before ordering boards if you plan to. enjoy.

 

Ken

 

Edited by kenames99
forgot text
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On 3/19/2021 at 6:06 PM, Mathy said:

Hello guys

 

Eight slots would be very nice.  And if that makes the box too long, just turn it over 90 degrees.  (Yes, that's easier said than done)

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy

 

PS I'm not saying there should be only one version of the 1090.   :D

Would it be possible to daisy-chain multiple units instead?  Could that be one of the expansion cards?

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I think that would be possible, just take some time and thought on how to do it the correct way.

 

Ken

 

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Posted (edited)

It's been quite a while since I've read up in any sort of depth regarding the 1090 and PBI bus' functioning, but a couple of things regarding the PBI cropped up tangentally in this thread regarding @geneb's 1400XL that seemed like they were worth mentioning.  What they really affect is the concept of a 1090 with more than 5 slots due to the compatibility implications of that idea.

 

Summary: the 14x0 machines' speech synthesiser and modem are assigned slots on the PBI bus.  The speech synth gets slot $07 (Speech Handler External Reference Specification, p.4) with the modem occupying another unspecified slot (1400XL Integral Modem External Reference Specification, p.23 and elsewhere).  Given that the 1090 has 5 slots likely numbered $01-$05, the modem probably sits at slot $06.  $00 would, in all likelihood, be assigned to either the 1090 or the PBI bus itself.

 

What this means is that in order to maintain compatibility with the 14x0-series machines, it appears as though any 1090 recreation used as the first PBI-attached 1090 would have to be a 5-slot device in order to not step on the 14x0s' on-board speech synth and modem.  Presumably, that wouldn't bar the possibility of daisy-chained 1090s having more than 5 slots, but that's TBD.  Regardless, it would go some way towards explaining why the 1090 was designed with only 5 slots.

 

This does open up an interesting possibility, though, for a 1090 with on-board modem and speech synth in the same PBI slots as the 14x0 machines used.  That plus the 14x0 OS ROMs could potentially turn a 600XL or 800XL into a 14x0, just with the modem and speech synth externally-connected as opposed to having them directly attached to the motherboard.

Edited by x=usr(1536)

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