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PlusCart connect to local NextCloud


vinniet

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18 minutes ago, Andrew Davie said:

OK, the PlusCart is doing something that almost no other Atari 2600 games do.  And that is display alternate pixels on alternate frames. The pixels in the font are on for one frame, and off for the next (while other pixels are on).  This is how the full-screen text display is done. This works on a CRT because of persistance of vision - the phosphor continues to glow, and the on/off states of each pixel tend to merge into a slightly-darker but always-on pixel.  Now a LCD is different. It does not have phosphor that continues to glow between frames. It's generally on or off - with very fast switching. So we don't benefit from the CRT's phosphor coating. That's the first thing. The second thing is the resolution of the LCD is usually a hell of a lot more than the resolution of your CRT. In particular, the vertical resolution of the frame from the 2600 is about 262 lines. Your LCD probably has something like 1080 lines. So the LCD, when it gets that signal from the Atari, has to do some scaling, to get from the 262 lines to the 1080. Furthermore, it has to decide how to display the 60Hz (frames pers second) coming from the Atari into whatever the LCD might have as its display. It needs to blend together frames, and within frames blend together scanlines. Different LCD TVs do this differently, and obviously none of them end up looking exaclty like a CRT.

 

Now you may not have seen others with the same issue - but it's not uncommon for people to have similar issues.

 

Finally, your test on a CRT showed you that the problem wasn't detectable on that CRT. You put it down to the CRT being "not clear" so it was hard to tell. That's pretty much the point, really. The CRT is an imperfect display device and the PlusCart menu/font display is taking advantage of everything we know about CRTs, phosphor, persistance of vision, and frame rates. The LCD pretty much ignores all of that and does what it wants.  

 

As I said before, for an authentic experience, with the display as nature intended, use a CRT.  I could be wrong about the issue, but hey... I'm pretty confident I know what's happening.  Only way you can confirm, I guess, is to find some more CRTs and do more testing.

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for that informative explanation.  I was less concerned for the font and more on the static.   I understand like Harmony, PlusCart are doing something 2600 was not designed for.  The static shows up not only in the menu but in the games also.  When I put that same game cart I own in, that does not happen.  

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@Andrew Davie @Al_Nafuur    I think I have to come to some conclusion there might be problem with my PlusCart.   I obtained Sony VEGA 24" tube TV that works perfectly.  I have hooked up Atari 2600 via antenna and still getting static and popping noise like before.  Enclosed is the video of the issue.  Let me know if you think PlusCart is defective. 

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Hi @vinniet

Sorry you are having problems.

I'm pretty certain this is not the PlusCart; here's my reasoning...

 

1230401285_ScreenShot2021-04-08at4_29_13am.thumb.png.8e85107a8907fc395bb77225078d7936.png

 

That's a still-frame from your video.

We can see that as the (+) is being drawn (so the RAM code which is running at this point) is working correctly.

Even though we see complete warp-age of the logo at the base. There's no way the PlusCart is doing this - this is a TV signal problem.

It's a very small bit of code, and the PlusCart itself is away doing 'net communications anyway.  It's not a software problem 100% certain.

So, that leaves hardware. Now I don't know enough about what goes wrong with '2600 hardware, but capacitors are known to fail when the machine gets to this age. And I do believe video can be affected significantly. Also, there are mechanical issues possible with the RF unit, or the RF cable itself.

Have you tried the PlusCart on another '2600 unit?  With a different RF cable?

Because, at this stage I don't suspect the PlusCart is the issue, I think the only way to test this for sure is to try another '2600 unit, or less conclusively different carts on this unit.  But again, I can't see how PlusCart hardware can do this, unless perhaps your cart slot is full of debris and your'e getting some sort of weird short in there. 

Let's see what @Al_Nafuur has to say.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, vinniet said:

@Andrew Davie @Al_Nafuur    I think I have to come to some conclusion there might be problem with my PlusCart.   I obtained Sony VEGA 24" tube TV that works perfectly.  I have hooked up Atari 2600 via antenna and still getting static and popping noise like before.  Enclosed is the video of the issue.  Let me know if you think PlusCart is defective. 

 

25 minutes ago, Andrew Davie said:

Even though we see complete warp-age of the logo at the base. There's no way the PlusCart is doing this - this is a TV signal problem.

It's a very small bit of code, and the PlusCart itself is away doing 'net communications anyway.  It's not a software problem 100% certain.

So, that leaves hardware. Now I don't know enough about what goes wrong with '2600 hardware, but capacitors are known to fail when the machine gets to this age. And I do believe video can be affected significantly. Also, there are mechanical issues possible with the RF unit, or the RF cable itself.

Have you tried the PlusCart on another '2600 unit?  With a different RF cable?

Because, at this stage I don't suspect the PlusCart is the issue, I think the only way to test this for sure is to try another '2600 unit, or less conclusively different carts on this unit.  But again, I can't see how PlusCart hardware can do this, unless perhaps your cart slot is full of debris and your'e getting some sort of weird short in there. 

Let's see what @Al_Nafuur has to say.

 

I am also quite clueless here.

 

I suppose to clean the cartridge slot connectors and check that they all have good contact. The PCBs I use for the DIY PlusCarts are with gold-plated plug contacts and a thicker PCB (1.6mm), so they should have better contact already, but it might still be possible that the slot contacts are dirty and there is a higher contact resistance.

 

If cleaning the slot contacts doesn't solve the problem the next steps would be to check the caps and the voltage regulator circuit of the VCS. The PlusCart draws slightly more power than ordinary cartridges, so problems in the VCS power circuit might show up first when using the PlusCart.

 

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This issue is showing up on two different Atari 2600.  The latest video was taken with Atari 4 switch Woody hooked up by RF to Sony Tube TV.  The other videos I took were taken with Vader with RCA mod hooked to modern 52" Sony HD TV.  Both different Atari with different TV and hookups are showing the static.  That is why I am saying I think there might be something with the PlusCart.  

 

Any other thoughts?

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To me, that looks like RF interference in the same frequency range as the dot/color clock (system clock).  That would suggest not enough power is being provided or the power rails are noisy.  Which that could be any of the following: a power supply/connection issue, a bad capacitor, a bad/dirty cartridge connection (cart or connector) OR a bad solder joint somewhere.

 

Have either of these two systems had cap kits installed?

 

I ask because I've run into issues similar to this with the Harmony Cart... All original games worked fine except for the Harmony cart.  The issue on one of my systems was quite extreme: there were major sync/video loss issues.  I ended up getting cap kits (which come with a new power connector and regulator) from console5.com for both systems, and now they work great.

 

This is old tech, might be time for some refurbishing.

 

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48 minutes ago, splendidnut said:

To me, that looks like RF interference in the same frequency range as the dot/color clock (system clock).  That would suggest not enough power is being provided or the power rails are noisy.  Which that could be any of the following: a power supply/connection issue, a bad capacitor, a bad/dirty cartridge connection (cart or connector) OR a bad solder joint somewhere.

 

Have either of these two systems had cap kits installed?

 

I ask because I've run into issues similar to this with the Harmony Cart... All original games worked fine except for the Harmony cart.  The issue on one of my systems was quite extreme: there were major sync/video loss issues.  I ended up getting cap kits (which come with a new power connector and regulator) from console5.com for both systems, and now they work great.

 

This is old tech, might be time for some refurbishing.

 

@splendidnut I could go with that theory except this does not happen for any other cartridge I use, including Harmony.  Also, when the game loads there is also interreference.  Any other regular cartridges (about 20) or Harmony and games it loads, no interreference. I would think what I would see the same static with PlusCart as with Harmony.  

 

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8 minutes ago, Al_Nafuur said:

This is exactly the moment when the ESP8266 WiFi module is drawing the most current..

The static happen at all times, even when the WIFI module is not doing anything, like when it has vinished loading or when the game is being played. 

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14 hours ago, vinniet said:

The static happen at all times, even when the WIFI module is not doing anything, like when it has vinished loading or when the game is being played. 

Currently I don't have any new PlusCarts in stock, but I can send you a perfectly working PlusCart with a missing user button (which we don't use in this project). So you can test with a second PlusCart.

 

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34 minutes ago, Al_Nafuur said:

Currently I don't have any new PlusCarts in stock, but I can send you a perfectly working PlusCart with a missing user button (which we don't use in this project). So you can test with a second PlusCart.

 

Thanks I appreciate it.  If you need my information, please let me know. 

 

What does the user button usually do?

Edited by vinniet
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1 hour ago, vinniet said:

Thanks I appreciate it.  If you need my information, please let me know.

Just to be sure, PM me your address.

 

1 hour ago, vinniet said:

What does the user button usually do?

It is connected to a GPIO Pin of the STM MCU and can be used in the firmware, but we don't use it (and most probably we won't us it in the future)

grafik.png.349ebe1745d5654fb8675c7b3b8b996f.png

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7 minutes ago, Al_Nafuur said:

Just to be sure, PM me your address.

 

It is connected to a GPIO Pin of the STM MCU and can be used in the firmware, but we don't use it (and most probably we won't us it in the future)

grafik.png.349ebe1745d5654fb8675c7b3b8b996f.png

PM Sent.  Thanks!

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Interesting phenomena, my custom diffractive grating removed all interference like a Faraday cage, makes the PlusCart menu and the games display as clear as the UnoCart.

 

My Harmony model from 2011 has vertical interference lines which were resolved in later models, but only on some games that use more ARM overhead for the bank switching I imagine since it's not present on all games and on none of the 4K games.   

 

GameModem_ClearCase_Clear.thumb.jpg.762e2e7ee9bbdd43ea644625d96059e0.jpg

See the four small coils around the PlusCart doing this trick above.

 

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On 4/8/2021 at 1:05 PM, vinniet said:

This issue is showing up on two different Atari 2600.  The latest video was taken with Atari 4 switch Woody hooked up by RF to Sony Tube TV.  The other videos I took were taken with Vader with RCA mod hooked to modern 52" Sony HD TV.  Both different Atari with different TV and hookups are showing the static.  That is why I am saying I think there might be something with the PlusCart.  

 

Any other thoughts?

Things that might still be common;

1) The RF cable itself.

2) The power circuit it is running off.

3) The power brick.

 

Can you confirm all are different in your testing.

Edited by Andrew Davie
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1 hour ago, Andrew Davie said:

Things that might still be common;

1) The RF cable itself.

2) The power circuit it is running off.

3) The power brick.

 

Can you confirm all are different in your testing.

Yes but it would agree it could be any of those except its two different units, two different hookups (RF & RCA mod) and two different power supplies (one original and other new type).

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4) Noise from the chip

 

Since it's making it through the circuit, the best shielding may be a sink like the coils or a shield with holes to absorb like a Faraday.

Maybe also try a ferrite block on your power cord, a nearby CF bulb can contribute to THD interference.   

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6 minutes ago, Mr SQL said:

4) Noise from the chip

 

Since it's making it through the circuit, the best shielding may be a sink like the coils or a shield with holes to absorb like a Faraday.

Maybe also try a ferrite block on your power cord, a nearby CF bulb can contribute to THD interference.   

I thought that too and moved it around the house.  Also I have no CF bulbs but lots of devices.   I have replacement being send so I will see if that helps. 

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