Why was 7800 discontinued

[+davidcalgary29]

1 hour ago, hwrd said:

Woolco had XE's from '86.  I had a friend who bought a word processor package with a 130XE/1050/printer/AtariWriter  cartridge.

(I think that was the name..)

Ah, Woolco. That's Atari for you, going for the discount stores first. I last saw A8 software in Eaton's in '84; Sears had XEGS games in its '87 winter catalogue. 

[Joey Kay]

1 hour ago, davidcalgary29 said:

Ah, Woolco. That's Atari for you, going for the discount stores first. I last saw A8 software in Eaton's in '84; Sears had XEGS games in its '87 winter catalogue. 

Woolco is where I purchased my 1050 drive, Silent Service, and the Print Shop Graphics Library, all in 1989.
 

That said, the stock had been there for quite some time… 

 

The 1050 croaked maybe four months after I bought it. Took it back to the store (out of warranty), they sent it to Atari Canada, and I received an XF551 as replacement. Always appreciated that gesture. 
 

Always found it odd Woolco didn’t ever stock the 7800 or XEGS, at least the store in my hood, but stocked the 8-bit computers. 

[hwrd]

7 minutes ago, Joey Kay said:

Woolco is where I purchased my 1050 drive, Silent Service, and the Print Shop Graphics Library, all in 1989.
 

That said, the stock had been there for quite some time… 

 

The 1050 croaked maybe four months after I bought it. Took it back to the store (out of warranty), they sent it to Atari Canada, and I received an XF551 as replacement. Always appreciated that gesture. 
 

Always found it odd Woolco didn’t ever stock the 7800 or XEGS, at least the store in my hood, but stocked the 8-bit computers. 

Atari Canada's warranty service was excellent.

 

We had bought several dozen 520STfm (single sided) with additional external drive for far less than the newer double sided 520STfm's.

A couple of people had their internal drives die, and they were replaced with double sided 520STfm's.

 

I used to (jokingly) say to people "run a butter knife thru your disk drive and you will end up with a double sided machine for free".

(No one ever did that).  

 

Now, I may be misremembering, but I think Timeworks DTP worked better (i.e., less disk swaps) with a  dual single sided drives machine than with single double sided drive.  Timeworks DTP  was a big seller and driver for machine sales at our shop.

[Jasonhrb]

On 9/6/2021 at 11:53 AM, Muddyfunster said:

The XEGS was pretty insignificant in the UK from what I remember, so I wouldn't agree that it did well. I think it launched pretty much at the same time as the NES and SMS and those two crushed it. I remember them (XEGS) being sold off cheap in Dixon's (high street electronics retailer) for like £50 or something. 

 

More of my friends had SMS's than NES's BITD but then, the SMS did do well in Europe overall and competed well with the NES in region.

 

 

For what it's worth, my own memory of the UK market largely matches this. Atari just didn't seem to figure in the 8 bit console battle in the late 80s / early 90s. The relaunched 2600 gained a bit of traction as a very cheap system (to my surprise at the time), but in terms of the main battle for market share in the 8 bit console market, it was all about Sega vs Nintendo (with Sega coming out on top, but not by a huge amount). Certainly the bulk of the media coverage was about those two systems, and software for both was widely available.

 

By comparison, in the UK both Atari systems (7800 and XEGS) got little more than a passing mention in magazines at the time once the initial "new generation of consoles" stories had been printed. In addition, relatively few UK retailers stocked games for either of the "new" Atari systems. The discussion and retail presence was almost entirely about Sega vs Nintendo.

 

Now of course it's possible that Atari managed sales close to Nintendo level despite this lack of coverage and software availability, but this seems unlikely. And I strongly suspect that when the XEGS did find UK buyers, it was disproportionately at "clearance" prices when retailers just wanted rid (much like my £30 7800 . . . .thinking about this some more, our 7800 was definitely £29.95 rather than £39.95 when we got it)

 

I have to be honest and say that none of this is based on anything more than my memories as someone who was a games mad teenager while all of this was going on, coupled with an hour or so skimming online copies of articles from the time. So I could be wrong on all of this. But my memory very much matches that of Muddyfunster, and I think I'd probably need some solid evidence of UK sales figures to change my take on this.

Edited September 9, 2021 by Jasonhrb

[Leeroy ST]

Luckily we have @Lostdragon who may find UK NES came SMS numbers, as well as hopefully XEGS market performance (and maybe numbers but unlikely). In his mass collection of scans 

[Lostdragon]

I will see what, if anything I can dig out, but flat out with Solicitors and Estate Agents from here on in. 

 

Old TGM article with Ocean talking about lack of plans for XEGS support, US Gold initial reluctantance to support the Sega Master System

 

 

Trouble with UK 7800 and XEGS numbers is Atari never seperated them or gave specifics, just lumped them in with 2600 numbers and talked of a % of market share. 

 

And I could never find the Pre-Darryl Still Atari UK marketing folk, who might have had access to specific numbers. 

[Leeroy ST]

27 minutes ago, Lostdragon said:

Trouble with UK 7800 and XEGS numbers is Atari never seperated them or gave specifics, just lumped them in with 2600 numbers and talked of a % of market share. 

 

And I could never find the Pre-Darryl Still Atari UK marketing folk, who might have had access to specific numbers.

 

 

Hmm.

 

How about NES vs. SMS UK sales performance? Are those numbers easier to find?

[+Muddyfunster]

 

17 minutes ago, Leeroy ST said:

 

Hmm.

 

How about NES vs. SMS UK sales performance? Are those numbers easier to find?

I don't see how that helps you to prove the XEGS outsold the NES.

 

[Lostdragon]

I never saw the XEGS  even advertised by Atari in the UK press, only European.. 

 

Some general misc stuff, doubt it'll help with much.. 

 

[Leeroy ST]

1 hour ago, Muddyfunster said:

 

I don't see how that helps you to prove the XEGS outsold the NES.

 

It may prove the NES didn't sell as much as you were implying, and the potential distance between the two. Since you basically indicated the NES and SMS were tied in an earlier post.

[Leeroy ST]

58 minutes ago, Lostdragon said:

 

 

 

No numbers but it shows the XE doing well in Europe and it wasn't just a console that sold at launch and vanished. It was clearly produced for some time and that was the goal. No indicators for the UK specifically but It was the biggest Euro gaming market at the time so there is some hint.

 

Also Sega being big in UK.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[+Muddyfunster]

2 hours ago, Leeroy ST said:

No numbers but it shows the XE doing well in Europe and it wasn't just a console that sold at launch and vanished. It was clearly produced for some time and that was the goal. No indicators for the UK specifically but It was the biggest Euro gaming market at the time so there is some hint.

 

Also Sega being big in UK.

 

Your comments and the magazine articles prove nothing. They are just articles from the day nothing more. They are not indication of success and there is no evidence of sales figures included. Adverts are paid for by the manufacturer or seller, they are not a measure of how successful a system is, they are just marketing. I thought that was obvious?

 

I also didn't say that the system was sold at launch and vanished, I said the production run was sold and that may have taken time to exhaust in different markets. If you are going to paraphrase what I said, please do it correctly.

 

You shift the focus from UK to Europe to change your argument approach (didn't you criticise me for doing just that?-nvm). If you set the bar so low, that this "evidence" proves the system did well then you really have shown that you have no idea about evidence and research. Then you start to grasp at straws about the NES not selling as well as I implied. If you put the burden of proof this low, you can prove literally anything you like. 

 

Let me remind you :

 

YOU claimed the XEGS outsold the NES. YOU said that, YOU can't evidence that. (It's fantastical and unrealistic but ok).

 

You made a bad call, own it and move on. 

 

I'm done here, you can't prove your claim and I can't be bothered to argue with you anymore.

 

[edited as I don't have the time or the crayons for this.]

Edited September 9, 2021 by Muddyfunster

[Leeroy ST]

1 hour ago, Muddyfunster said:

You shift the focus from UK to Europe (

You dont know what "shift focus" means dont you? Nothing was shifted. I even pointed out the lack of UK numbers.

 

1 hour ago, Muddyfunster said:

Let me remind you :

 

YOU claimed the XEGS outsold the NES. 

I said that IF it didn't, they were close as well.

 

You have yet to disprove either. As you said before you have unverified sources that aren't good.

 

But now you want to pretend they are good and verified, how interesting and inconsistent 

 

You are the one that should move one. Already a chunk of your claims have been disproven with just this small amount of information. 

 

Remember when you said Xegs sold 130k world wide and basically stopped selling after launch? I do.

 

Remember when you had Sega in tie with NES in UK? I do!

 

But hey if you want to take that quick exit ok.

Edited September 9, 2021 by Leeroy ST

[+Muddyfunster]

I have nothing to prove or disprove. 

 

You stated the XEGS outsold the NES. I've asked you to prove it. You can't. Game over.

 

10 minutes ago, Leeroy ST said:

 

You have yet to disprove either. As you said before you have unverified sources that aren't good.

 

But now you want to pretend they are good now interesting and inconsistent 

 

Your comment is nonsense and I mean that literally, it doesn't make sense.

 

10 minutes ago, Leeroy ST said:

You are the one that should move one. Already a chunk of your claims have been disproven with just this small amount of information. 

 

You posted a bunch of magazine articles that prove exactly zero. 

 

I didn't make a chunk of claims, I said the XEGS was insignificant in the UK. This was at odds with the fantasy world in which you live. As a result you stated the XEGS outsold the NES. So far I've been polite and tolerant but lets be honest. If you think that's true then you are a total dingbat and there is no point in further discussion.

 

10 minutes ago, Leeroy ST said:

Remember when you said Xegs sold 130k world wide and basically stopped selling after launch? I do.

 

 You really should learn to read a persons comments fully as that's not what I said.

 

10 minutes ago, Leeroy ST said:

Remember when you had Sega in tie with NES in UK? I do!

 

Yes and there was a source to suggest that that I linked. I also said the sources could not be confirmed. That's called good research, you should try it some time.

 

You have now resorted to attacking comments as you cannot constructively discuss anything in any thread that you engage in. You have to "win". You sir have a problem and should seek help.

Edited September 9, 2021 by Muddyfunster

[Lostdragon]

These are only intended to highlight that in  UK press terms, the 7800 arrived a little too late to be of huge appeal... 

 

The XEGS was near dead in the UK at the start of 1991

 

 

 

Atari wouldn't give the press specific sales numbers for their 8-bit console hardware. 

 

 

The original 7800 annoucement and UK plans for the system, appeared in the October 1986 issue. 

Edited September 10, 2021 by Lostdragon
Added the ORIGINAL 7800 UK annoucement

[Lostdragon]

NES UK launch plans, Nintendo UK policy to only release 2 titles a month, Atari UK going with the 65XE over the 7800,after the initial 7800 showcasing in London. 

[roots.genoa]

Just percentages but the XEGS is not even featured:

 

[Lostdragon]

Misc.. 

 

How the Master System became the sleeper hit, older software titles could be sold at £9.99,something Nintendo wasn't willing to follow suit with for the NES.. 

 

ARIOLASOFT were the ORIGINAL planned distributors for the Master System in the UK, people often forget thst and assume it was always Mastertronic... 

 

Article also points out at a time it was believed Master System dev kits were going out to UK Software houses, Atari and Mattel were lagging way behind in contacting them about the 7800 and NES.. 

 

The 7800 was expected to come in at around £40..a £100 cheaper than the NES.. 

[Lostdragon]

33 minutes ago, roots.genoa said:

Just percentages but the XEGS is not even featured:

 

The XEGS was described as near dead in the UK at end of 1990/start of 1991, so I wouldn't expect to see it register in May 1992.

[+Muddyfunster]

I think it's pretty clear the XEGS didn't outsell the NES or SMS, or any of the systems listed there.

[+x=usr(1536)]

13 hours ago, Muddyfunster said:

I think it's pretty clear the XEGS didn't outsell the NES or SMS, or any of the systems listed there.

Nuh-uh.  I read it in a newspaper.  You don't know what you're talking about.  THIS IS FACT.

[Lostdragon]

Bit more Misc.. 

 

Atari UK explaining why they went for 65XE over the 7800..

 

Claims of advanced orders of 75,000 units for it.. 

 

Sales estimations for 1987

 

 

Existing orders for another 90,000 VCS machines

 

 

All very vague, very Atari P. R in full swing. 

Edited September 11, 2021 by Lostdragon
Hit post before I had attached the files ?

[+Muddyfunster]

8 hours ago, x=usr(1536) said:

Nuh-uh.  I read it in a newspaper.  You don't know what you're talking about.  THIS IS FACT.

That has made me smile. Very good sir

 

"as we have now completed the purchase of the country of Greece.." Gold ?

 

Edited September 11, 2021 by Muddyfunster

[+swlovinist]

From my personal perspective, the 7800 came out too late and offered more of the previous same types of games from Atari.   It was confusing from a consumer perspective, that had clearly moved on to the next big thing.  As a kid that was around ten when the console came out, it was only offered in a few stores in my area that I remember, and not marketed that much at all(Montgomery Ward had a few).   I have come to LOVE the 7800 in my adult years, and feel that the homebrew support of the console makes it much more appealing NOW.   Back then, I can tell you that it was only sparsely offered in rural Northern California.   

[zzip]

12 hours ago, swlovinist said:

From my personal perspective, the 7800 came out too late and offered more of the previous same types of games from Atari.   It was confusing from a consumer perspective, that had clearly moved on to the next big thing.  As a kid that was around ten when the console came out, it was only offered in a few stores in my area that I remember, and not marketed that much at all(Montgomery Ward had a few).   I have come to LOVE the 7800 in my adult years, and feel that the homebrew support of the console makes it much more appealing NOW.   Back then, I can tell you that it was only sparsely offered in rural Northern California.   

Yeah the 7800 launch library was already kind of dated when it was supposed to release in 84.   But when it finally released in 86 with the same titles, it was EXTREMELY dated.   But by then Atari had separated from their arcade division and no longer had the pipeline of current games they had prior to 84.