Heretic - still one of the best FPS games ever made IMO

[awbacon]

 

Especially with modern mods and other features the game plays like something that could have come out this year.

 

I dare say I enjoy it slightly more than Doom too

 

anyone else into Heretic?

[newtmonkey]

I like it quite a bit, but I'd definitely rank it below Doom.

 

I like that the levels in Heretic are typically quite large and open, as it makes it seem like you are actually exploring a space compared with the tight corridors of Doom or the puzzle maps of Doom 2.

 

I also like how it looks and sounds.  It's got some really well drawn enemies with some really elaborate death animations.  The soundtrack is also fantastic, especially when played on a Roland Sound Canvas.

 

I don't like that the enemies are damage sponges and how random weapon damage seems to be.  The crossbow (aka shotgun) is especially annoying; sometimes you'll shoot an enemy point blank and kill it in one shot, other times it takes two or even three shots to take it down.  You never really get a "go-to" weapon you can use to easily take down weaker enemies, with even those tiny flying imps taking multiple shots from anything weaker than the crossbow.

 

Having said that, I do like it enough to have played through it multiple times, and I typically give it a replay every few years.

[zzip]

I love Heretic  more so than Doom!  Probably because I like the fantasy genre more than sci-fi.   I used to create my own levels too, unfortunately I lost most of them.

 

Lately I've been playing Hexen/Hexen II because I got the collection of GoG.   I never played them back then.

 

1 hour ago, newtmonkey said:

I also like how it looks and sounds.  It's got some really well drawn enemies with some really elaborate death animations.  The soundtrack is also fantastic, especially when played on a Roland Sound Canvas.

 

Sounded good on my Gravis Ultrasound as well.   My favorite was the music from 1-9!  

[Keatah]

2 hours ago, newtmonkey said:

I like it quite a bit, but I'd definitely rank it below Doom.

Yes. Agree.

 

2 hours ago, newtmonkey said:

I like that the levels in Heretic are typically quite large and open, as it makes it seem like you are actually exploring a space compared with the tight corridors of Doom or the puzzle maps of Doom 2.

True enough. Noticed that as the Doom franchise progressed, the levels have become more tight, more tedious, more tactical, and that isn't my style. I love levels like UAC_dead. Huge. Wide. Expansive in scope. These large environments create a sense of exploration, uniqueness, and progression. So much less fatiguing to work through.

 

There's no way I'm going to sit through Sigil. Not right now. I swear it's an overdesigned button-mashing fest. Grinding. Made by someone making something because it needed to be done, yet having a lot of energy to put into it. I mean it's not a bad effort - just not my gig.

 

3 hours ago, awbacon said:

anyone else into Heretic?

It's something I've been meaning to get back into. Sooner or later.

[Tanooki]

Looks like a post I saw on reddit shortly ago.  Fantastic game, saddled with Doom drones who seem to think less of it, despite it being in ways the superior game by design additions to the engine.

[awbacon]

10 hours ago, Tanooki said:

Looks like a post I saw on reddit shortly ago.  Fantastic game, saddled with Doom drones who seem to think less of it, despite it being in ways the superior game by design additions to the engine.

People love DOOM so much I think they cant see past it and realize other games in that generation are at least AS GOOD

[zzip]

1 hour ago, awbacon said:

People love DOOM so much I think they cant see past it and realize other games in that generation are at least AS GOOD

I loved Doom too in the beginning, but once I discovered Heretic, I forgot all about Doom :)

 

What are people's thoughts on Heretic 2?     It is so different-  third person, actual dialogue, real 3D world.    I like it, but it doesn't really feel like a sequel,  feels like it should have been its own game.

[youxia]

I loved Heretic 2 because it felt a bit different and the various 3D fx effects were very neat. The first one was okay too.

 

That said, if I had to choose, it'd be Doom every time.

[Tanooki]

As a Heretic game, it doesn't feel right don't like it.  If it was its own like D&D/Dragonlance style RPG-ish style FPS game on its own merits with a tweaked story removing the whole dragonriders heretic lore it would have been better off.  Heretic to me jumped into Hexen and that more so fit with the style of progression.

[zzip]

26 minutes ago, Tanooki said:

As a Heretic game, it doesn't feel right don't like it.  If it was its own like D&D/Dragonlance style RPG-ish style FPS game on its own merits with a tweaked story removing the whole dragonriders heretic lore it would have been better off.  Heretic to me jumped into Hexen and that more so fit with the style of progression.

yeah  exactly.   Even Hexen feels different than Heretic to me-  much darker atmosphere.   but it's much closer than Heretic 2 is

[awbacon]

On 4/7/2021 at 4:35 PM, zzip said:

yeah  exactly.   Even Hexen feels different than Heretic to me-  much darker atmosphere.   but it's much closer than Heretic 2 is

Heretic II was the ultimate bummer to me...I wanted another FPS

[ClassicGMR]

On 4/6/2021 at 11:57 AM, zzip said:

Lately I've been playing Hexen/Hexen II because I got the collection of GoG.   I never played them back then.

I loved these.

[IntelliMission]

I wonder what secret ingredient was added to these programmers morning cereals to give birth to the creation of Wolfenstein 3D, Doom, Doom 2, Heretic, Hexen, Quake, Duke Nukem, Blood, Jedi Knight and Half Life from 1992 to 1998.

 

Interestingly, Street Fighter 2 and Alone in the Dark were also released in 1992. The first one started the golden age of fighting games and the second one created the survival horror genre.

 

Add this to the golden years of graphic adventures (1989-1994) and 3D platformers/adventure games (1996-1999), and it's understandable that the 90s are considered as the best decade for video games.

 

I wish more teenagers discovered these games today, because let's be honest, good games always age well, especially when you start improving graphical capabilities (which happened in the 90s). Some may complain about Atari 2600 games because of the simplicity, but to me huge pixels are not the problem (neither 2D nor in 3D textures).

Edited April 9, 2021 by IntelliMission

[zzip]

3 hours ago, IntelliMission said:

I wonder what secret ingredient was added to these programmers morning cereals to give birth to the creation of Wolfenstein 3D, Doom, Doom 2, Heretic, Hexen, Quake, Duke Nukem, Blood, Jedi Knight and Half Life from 1992 to 1998.

It's a combination of things..   386 & 486 processors meant that texture-mapped pseudo 3D games could now be done with rendering speed fast enough to be playable.  Eventually 3D cards arrived and real 3D worlds replaced the pseudo-3D ones.

 

The Internet was another factor.   Many of these games were delivered with a Shareware model where you get the first level free.  But up until this point in the 90s, the Shareware concept didn't produce hit games.  The internet allowed Indies studios to distribute demos and have their games noticed and become legit hits.

[youxia]

Internet helped a bit, but it wasn't really that popular back then. You could stick Doom on two floppies and just mail it, shops carried shareware as well, and of course it was shared by people themselves.

[zzip]

14 minutes ago, youxia said:

Internet helped a bit, but it wasn't really that popular back then. You could stick Doom on two floppies and just mail it, shops carried shareware as well, and of course it was shared by people themselves.

True, there were all those shareware carousels that popped up, even in supermakets.   And magazines in that day often included a disk or CD with the latest games

 

But I do remember one of my favorite things to do on early internet was head over to Happypuppy.com and download the latest game demos.   We didn't worry about PC malware so much in those days ?

Edited April 9, 2021 by zzip

[IntelliMission]

That's the technical side, but I was referring more to the creative part.

 

All these games could have been Alien Trilogy clones (not a bad game, but you get my point), but instead they feature incredible level design and very unique and distinctive audiovisual elements.

 

Both ID Software and 3D Realms were doing 2D platform games before that. Those games were decent, but not as good as the FPS they released. It looks like the possibilities inspired them (also technically, as seen in the fake 3D of Wolfenstein and Doom and also in the peculiarities of Duke Nukem 3D's engine).

[youxia]

iD and 3D Realms were great when it comes to action style, but it was the Looking Glass Studios who are my true heroes. Ultima Underworld was released in 1992, System Shock in 1994, and they both offered true 3D (as in up-down), physics, emergent gameplay, and RPG-level complexity.

[ClassicGMR]

We had a D&D-type game shop here in 1992 or so that started renting out PC games. (Most video rental shops had cartridges but wouldn’t rent pc games.) This was how we found out about new games like Epic Pinball, Doom, Wolfenstein, etc... and also learned copying 3.5” discs was easy. ? 

 

I also went on an upgrade spree right around then so I could play 7th Guest and it was just worth every penny to me!

[Hwlngmad]

Heretic is a great FPS, but I don't think it is as good as Doom and/or Doom II.  Just my opinion though.  Still up there and I think we can safely say it is in the top 10 (or thereabouts).

[newtmonkey]

Heretic is the best total conversion of Doom ever made.

 

Hexen for me is really what's special.  They took the Doom engine and stretched and mangled it nearly to the point of being unrecognizable (slight exaggeration).  As much as I love Doom and Doom II, and as amazing as the level design is in those games, they all tend to blur together somewhat due to how abstract the levels are.  Hexen really feels like exploring actual locations and a lot of the areas are still fresh in mind for me even 25+ (!!) years later after playing it.

Edited April 9, 2021 by newtmonkey

[JohnnyRockets]

Hi all,

 

LOVE, LOVE, LOVE Heretic!

 

For me it is absolutely tied with Doom 2 in AWESOMENESS!!!

 

What is the best way to play in Hi-Res on a PC would you say?

 

 

JR

[Keatah]

First time I saw Doom in any form was in EB or Software Etc. in Stratford Square Mall. This was sometime around early spring 1994. Saw it during one of my weekly treks to all the local area computer stores.

 

It was this unassuming paper jewel-box with two floppies. Distributed by GT Interactive as a "New Virtual Reality" game. (Everything back then was a virtual reality craze.) It was sitting in a rack, on the counter, next to the checkout register. Listed for just under $10 bucks. I bought that and that other renowned shooter, Raptor. Also packaged and priced similarly.

 

This was a casual purchase, an add-on purchase, like candy at the supermarket. I had no preconceptions or expectations about what it would look like, how it would play, or even what genre of game it was. I was pleasantly surprised to find it had smooth animation and that every pixel on the screen was used to represent the 3D world. The sound was complete, the graphics had great attention to detail. And everything worked! No time limits, no missing items. A full Episode of 10 levels. Great replay value. Felt like a complete game. For cheap too! Nothing to make you feel bad or coerced. Wasn't even put-off by the fact that it was really free to download on BBS'es elsewhere. I mean I got a "box" and disks. The distro model fit the times.

 

I would soon go on to purchase the original full three-episode set via mail order. Took about 2-3 weeks to arrive as did most things of the 80's and early 90's. I remember asking myself if I could trust this whole thing. Well it worked out fine.

 

The most impressive thing was that I had what I considered a basic workstation-class PC. 16MB 486 DX2/50, with 200MB HDD. Loaded with Windows 3.1 and various productivity packages. And all of a sudden it became a capable game machine! I had no idea a "serious" computer could play games like so. A standard Cirrus Logic 5422 graphics chip not really known for anything except, maybe, static hi-resolutions and boring "PC stuff" was instantly converted into rapid-fire fun. Something exceeding all the consoles & coin-ops I ever played to date.

 

Guys. Let me tell you. It was magic. Pure unadulterated magic! I quickly got into reading and discovering just how programmable and versatile VGA was. What else was in there?

 

When Heretic, Hexen, and Quake came out I was just as impressed over and over again.

[zzip]

22 minutes ago, Keatah said:

First time I saw Doom in any form was in EB or Software Etc. in Stratford Square Mall. This was sometime around early spring 1994. Saw it during one of my weekly treks to all the local area computer stores.

 

It was this unassuming paper jewel-box with two floppies. Distributed by GT Interactive as a "New Virtual Reality" game. (Everything back then was a virtual reality craze.) It was sitting in a rack, on the counter, next to the checkout register. Listed for just under $10 bucks. I bought that and that other renowned shooter, Raptor. Also packaged and priced similarly.

 

This was a casual purchase, an add-on purchase, like candy at the supermarket. I had no preconceptions or expectations about what it would look like, how it would play, or even what genre of game it was. I was pleasantly surprised to find it had smooth animation and that every pixel on the screen was used to represent the 3D world. The sound was complete, the graphics had great attention to detail. And everything worked! No time limits, no missing items. A full Episode of 10 levels. Great replay value. Felt like a complete game. For cheap too! Nothing to make you feel bad or coerced. Wasn't even put-off by the fact that it was really free to download on BBS'es elsewhere. I mean I got a "box" and disks. The distro model fit the times.

 

I would soon go on to purchase the original full three-episode set via mail order. Took about 2-3 weeks to arrive as did most things of the 80's and early 90's. I remember asking myself if I could trust this whole thing. Well it worked out fine.

 

The most impressive thing was that I had what I considered a basic workstation-class PC. 16MB 486 DX2/50, with 200MB HDD. Loaded with Windows 3.1 and various productivity packages. And all of a sudden it became a capable game machine! I had no idea a "serious" computer could play games like so. A standard Cirrus Logic 5422 graphics chip not really known for anything except, maybe, static hi-resolutions and boring "PC stuff" was instantly converted into rapid-fire fun. Something exceeding all the consoles & coin-ops I ever played to date.

 

Guys. Let me tell you. It was magic. Pure unadulterated magic! I quickly got into reading and discovering just how programmable and versatile VGA was. What else was in there?

 

When Heretic, Hexen, and Quake came out I was just as impressed over and over again.

Yeah, Doom was a game-changer.   I was particularly impressed how different every level looked, with things like stairs,  indoor and outdoor areas.  Remember there have been many attempts at first person perspective games over the years..   Dungeon Master, Midi Maze, Wolfenstein 3D.   All the maps were kind of samey looking.    Doom seemed to have unlimited potential in how maps could be designed.

 

Of course it was a bit of an illusion.   While you could build stairs,  you couldn't build a bridge over another area or a tunnel under an area, but you could create clever illusions that these things exist.   So it wasn't a true 3D world, but it was the closest we had seen to one until that point.

 

[Goochman]

IMHO the biggest game changer with Doom was you could create your own levels!  The map community went crazy and continues 20+ years later!