cbmeeks Posted April 18, 2021 Share Posted April 18, 2021 Hello all. I finally got around to installing my Sophia 2 into my 800XL. I also did the S-Video mod some time ago. With Sophia 2 installed, the S-Video still works (which is awesome). However, I don't have any actual DVI monitors. I have plenty VGA and a couple HDMI's. Before I go drilling the DVI connector into the case, I was wondering if there was a replacement cable and HDMI board instead? I was able to use a DVI to HDMI converter and that worked (although, it was flaky and when I moved the cable the image would go out). The DVI to VGA adapter I have doesn't work at all. Not sure why on that one. So what do you suggest? 1) Hope there is a true HDMI solution? 2) Get a better DVI to VGA adapter? 3) Get a DVI monitor? 4) Something else? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfollowell Posted April 18, 2021 Share Posted April 18, 2021 (edited) All you need is a simple DVI to HDMI cable. Nothing elaborate. They are both digital signals, so there is no "conversion" from DVI to HDMI. All you need is an adapter cable or a small adapter connector. This cable is the one I bought. It's only about $8 and works perfectly with the original Sophia DVI in my 1088XEL. The description now says HDMI to DVI, rather than DVI to HDMI, but that's the one I bought, and it works great. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B014I8UQJY/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 Edited April 18, 2021 by bfollowell 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1200XL M.U.L.E. Posted April 19, 2021 Share Posted April 19, 2021 I am also using a DVI->HDMI cable. It's nothing special. The cable is connected to my plasma TV and the resulting picture is beautiful. Get a similar cable and you should be good to go! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbmeeks Posted April 19, 2021 Author Share Posted April 19, 2021 Thanks! That's what I will do. BTW, I did a little more research and the DVI to VGA I have is missing a lot of pins. Whereas the DVI to HDMI converter I have is a 24+1 (or something like that). Basically, all of the pins are there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted April 19, 2021 Share Posted April 19, 2021 Interesting idea. The ideal might be a mini or micro HDMI jack on the exterior which would mean minimal hacking of the Atari case. But from what I can see so far, adaptors involving DVI are mainly oriented towards it as an output. I've already got a couple of DVI to full size HDMI female adaptors but they'd involve making a hole almost as big as for the DVI jack anyway. The idea of having a notch then running the DVI cable from inside the machine - interesting concept but I'd not like a permanent cable tethered to my 600XL. Such an arrangement might be OK for a 400 or 800 though. An alternate HDMI solution might be to have a daughterboard designed that presents a HDMI female output as alternate to the current DVI one. Or maybe something like that could be hand made though I'm not sure the pitch of the connections would make it easy to do with traditional soldering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbmeeks Posted April 19, 2021 Author Share Posted April 19, 2021 16 minutes ago, Rybags said: An alternate HDMI solution might be to have a daughterboard designed that presents a HDMI female output as alternate to the current DVI one. Or maybe something like that could be hand made though I'm not sure the pitch of the connections would make it easy to do with traditional soldering. That's actually what I was getting at. In fact, it would be really neat if we had a new daughter card for HMDI that also had inputs for an audio pass-through. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfollowell Posted April 19, 2021 Share Posted April 19, 2021 They won't be doing anything with HDMI. The creator has already discussed this at length. While HDMI is the standard these days, it comes with heavy licensing fees, putting it far out of the reach of small sales volume devices like the Sophia DVI and Sophia 2. DVI, however, is free, and since they're both digital signals, no conversion is required. All that is needed is a simple adapter to move the signals to the correct pins. Of course, it does require the owner to make a larger hole in their machines if they want it permanently mounted, but that's the trade-off. You definitely don't want to get that VGA mess involved. I mean, why would you want to take a perfectly clear, beautiful, digital image, and convert it to analog VGA? It defeats the purpose of buying and installing a Sophia 2 in the first place. If you wanted to go that route, something along the lines of a Sophia RGB or a VBXE/VBXL upgrade would have been more in line with what you wanted. Just my opinion, of coarse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atari8guy Posted April 19, 2021 Share Posted April 19, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, cbmeeks said: Thanks! That's what I will do. BTW, I did a little more research and the DVI to VGA I have is missing a lot of pins. Whereas the DVI to HDMI converter I have is a 24+1 (or something like that). Basically, all of the pins are there. While I understand that VGA is analog, from my point of view the resolution out on the Atari is so "chunky" by today's standards I don't think I can tell. Anyway, I use an Amazon Basics DVI to VGA cable without any issues at all. Best pic I've ever had on my Atari, I can read 80 columns via software easily. Edited April 19, 2021 by 8bitguy1 While for Well (ugh) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbmeeks Posted April 19, 2021 Author Share Posted April 19, 2021 2 minutes ago, bfollowell said: You definitely don't want to get that VGA mess involved. I mean, why would you want to take a perfectly clear, beautiful, digital image, and convert it to analog VGA? It defeats the purpose of buying and installing a Sophia 2 in the first place. If you wanted to go that route, something along the lines of a Sophia RGB or a VBXE/VBXL upgrade would have been more in line with what you wanted. Just my opinion, of coarse. Well, I already bought the Sophia 2 (which is what I wanted). I have a truckload of cheap, VGA/LCD monitors. I have two HDMI monitors but they are my primary monitors where I have no room for an Atari on the desk. Also, I have a really good ViewSonic 17" CRT (VGA) that looks awesome. So lots of incentive for VGA with me. I guess I could break down and buy another HDMI monitor. Just need to make sure it has VGA on it (I also have an F18A which requires VGA). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted April 19, 2021 Share Posted April 19, 2021 Solution found... Hit up AliExpress, fleabay or any other electronic supplier with "HDMI breakout" as the search term. Female plugs available with conveniently spaced solder points on the circuit board. Not sure this link will work everywhere but the second one I found looks good: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001300507777.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.635630e6LbCPP5&algo_pvid=a79b3668-6457-4f60-b731-9c557ed2d38f&algo_expid=a79b3668-6457-4f60-b731-9c557ed2d38f-1&btsid=0bb0623916188438664116320e7c13&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_ 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfollowell Posted April 19, 2021 Share Posted April 19, 2021 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Rybags said: Solution found... Hit up AliExpress, fleabay or any other electronic supplier with "HDMI breakout" as the search term. Female plugs available with conveniently spaced solder points on the circuit board. Not sure this link will work everywhere but the second one I found looks good: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001300507777.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.635630e6LbCPP5&algo_pvid=a79b3668-6457-4f60-b731-9c557ed2d38f&algo_expid=a79b3668-6457-4f60-b731-9c557ed2d38f-1&btsid=0bb0623916188438664116320e7c13&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_ Well, that wouldn't help at all in going to VGA by itself. That just gives you easy access to the signals. You'd still need something to convert the signal to VGA. While no conversion is needed to go from DVI to HDMI or vice versa, there is definitely a conversion needed to go from DVI to VGA or vice versa. Personally, I have no experience going from digital to analog. Hopefully, someone more knowledgeable with what you're wanting to do will pipe in soon. Good luck! Edited April 19, 2021 by bfollowell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted April 19, 2021 Share Posted April 19, 2021 I'm in the camp of not seeing much point in VGA. But possibly there's some similar solution that involves less modification to the case. Or - just invent your own slim interface - VGA doesn't use a lot of the connections and the plugs are sufficiently easy to solder yourself if doing a custom cable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfollowell Posted April 19, 2021 Share Posted April 19, 2021 2 hours ago, Rybags said: I'm in the camp of not seeing much point in VGA. But possibly there's some similar solution that involves less modification to the case. Or - just invent your own slim interface - VGA doesn't use a lot of the connections and the plugs are sufficiently easy to solder yourself if doing a custom cable. The thing is, he wants to hook up to a VGA monitor, which is analog. The Sophia 2 outputs a full digital signal. He can't hook anything into the Sophia 2 to get VGA output, period. They're incompatible signals. Whatever type of connector he uses to get out the back of his 8-bit, he's still going to need to run that to some sort of converter to get the signal back to analog VGA. So he's converting an analog signal to digital, then back to analog VGA. Sort of silly, but like he said, he already bought the Sophia 2 without quite researching it fully. Either way, there's no way to "wire up" an interface to go from the Sophia 2 to anything that will work with a VGA monitor without first converting back to an analog signal. Unfortunately, it's just not that simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atari8guy Posted April 19, 2021 Share Posted April 19, 2021 Maybe I'm missing something, but the Sophia2 outputs to VGA/RGB via its setup/control software. Then you just use a DVI to VGA cable to connect the VGA monitor. Sure you have DVI on the back of your 8bit, but that gives you more freedom than putting VGA back there. The cables are inexpensive, as mentioned, I do this very thing with an Amazon Basics cable and it works great. You still have to source your sound but if you're going VGA or DVI route, you gonna have to do that anyway. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tillek Posted April 19, 2021 Share Posted April 19, 2021 Might also want to consider hitting up some thrift stores. If it's a DVI monitor you lack, I've found tons of great LCD monitors at the local thrift stores, usually way under $20 and many with HDMI or DVI (or multiple) inputs. Could end up being way less expensive than a converter sometimes and you might end up with a better monitor out of the deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfollowell Posted April 19, 2021 Share Posted April 19, 2021 43 minutes ago, 8bitguy1 said: Maybe I'm missing something, but the Sophia2 outputs to VGA/RGB via its setup/control software. Then you just use a DVI to VGA cable to connect the VGA monitor. Sure you have DVI on the back of your 8bit, but that gives you more freedom than putting VGA back there. The cables are inexpensive, as mentioned, I do this very thing with an Amazon Basics cable and it works great. You still have to source your sound but if you're going VGA or DVI route, you gonna have to do that anyway. You are 100% correct! I have an original Sophia DVI, and it's been too long since I looked over the specs of the Sophia 2. You're right, the new Sophia 2 has independent RGB/YPbPr/VGA and DVI outputs. I'd completely forgotten that! So, forget everything that I said about needing to convert the all-digital signal, blah, blah, blah. It looks like you can get RGB, component video, VGA and DVI, all at once if you want, from the Sophia 2. I'm really not familiar with the connector that is used though. Are there different connectors for the different outputs, or do they all somehow output through the DVI connector? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathy Posted April 19, 2021 Share Posted April 19, 2021 (edited) Hello guys 7 hours ago, bfollowell said: The creator has already discussed this at length. While HDMI is the standard these days, it comes with heavy licensing fees, putting it far out of the reach of small sales volume devices like the Sophia DVI and Sophia 2. Just a hypothetical question: What if somebody would design a PCB that would "convert" the signals coming from the Sophia 2 and add the (stereo/quad pokey) sound. Skipping the DVI port. Having an HDMI port. And not sell the PCB, but put the files you need on the net. Hypothetically, as I said. Would (s)he still need to pay a fee? And if a BOM is included with the data? Sincerely Mathy (who's not able to design a PCB, not even hypothetically) Edited April 19, 2021 by Mathy Oops, same characters, wrong order, different word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 Yes, it does VGA. I thought the fuss around that was in getting a compact physical connection going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbmeeks Posted April 21, 2021 Author Share Posted April 21, 2021 It works! I bought this adapter: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08YRF3YLQ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 And it works great. I do see some jailbars in the image. I cannot confirm if it's my monitor or not. But I'm still happy. TI-99/4A has VGA and now so does my 800XL. ? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 (edited) Fleabay usually somewhat cheaper for those, and I'm fairly sure they're just passive passthrough with no componentry (that listing mentions "active") ... though of course the shielding might vary from one to another which might affect the resultant signal. ed - looking again, maybe this is an active device. It doesn't have the pins for analog component signals on the DVI side. And looking in the comments, someone's complained that it puts a pink stripe down the side of their video which you shouldn't get from a simple passthru type. Edited April 21, 2021 by Rybags Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbmeeks Posted April 21, 2021 Author Share Posted April 21, 2021 (edited) Well, there's no pink strip on mine. Only real issue I saw was jailbars but it wasn't so bad I can't live with it. Anyway, tonight is the night I cut the hole and mount the DVI board. It's nice having either VGA, DVI or HDMI as an option on my 800XL. Edited April 21, 2021 by cbmeeks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfollowell Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 1 hour ago, cbmeeks said: Anyway, tonight is the night I cut the hole and mount the DVI board. It's nice having either VGA, DVI or HDMI as an option on my 800XL. So, they all come out using the DVI connector, regardless off which output type you choose? VGA, DVI, RGB, Component? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 I think so... the DVI-I standard includes RGB as per analog VGA, plus the sync. You can select between RGB or component output which comes out on the same pins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbmeeks Posted April 21, 2021 Author Share Posted April 21, 2021 Yeah, DVI is great. I like it better than HDMI because it has no license restrictions (same for VGA). My thing is, I just don't have a DVI monitor and since I have about 15 monitors total, don't know if I have the room for another. lol Too bad the board couldn't be sold MINUS the HDMI and include audio. That way, people like myself could just buy the HDMI jack myself and solder it on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 What makes this rather funny, is that somebody from the HDMI committee or whatever governing body there is would even give a rats ass about its unauthorized use in the A8 . It's in the same category of reality as all the illegal copies of old Atari games being taken off of all the servers, the 'Atari' name being removed from AtariAge as well as a multitude of other sites (including my own), or anyone putting the Fuji symbol on their products being told to remove it. Yes it happens, and I sure know how much people love to talk about the possibility, but in the grand view it's a rarity. And before all the lawyers jump in to make their case - I really don't care to hear it, because yes I know it is illegal, and I'm not saying it isn't. But in 'reality' you have a much better chance of being burned by the sun then by any legal body coming after you in this particular case and/or demographic. However I do like the suggestion of leaving off the actual connector, maybe even having dual PCB patterns (DVI and HDMI), and allowing a person to order it either with the DVI, or sans connector with the buyer installing the HDMI port themselves if that's what they want. Including a way to digitize the Atari sound for pass-thru to the HDMI option would be a fantastic addition as well. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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