800 Keyboard plungers (both types)

[DavidMil]

I've run into a wall with this project, but I haven't given up yet.  The company that did the original scans for me is no longer in business.

And the first samples they sent me work fine in the keyboards, but the inside opening is too small for the key caps to fit in.  I sent

the CAD files to another company, but they said that the files are locked and cannot be modified.  I checked around and the cheapest that

anyone else would rescan the parts was over 500 dollars each!  So I've been looking at buying a 3D scanner that can scan parts that small, but 

the cheapest one I can find is over $1500.  I even bought a Prusa i3 MK3+ 3D printer for my Christmas Present.  I tried to modify the 3D

print file created from the CAD file but that was a disaster.

 

David

  

[DavidMil]

I wanted to add a couple of pictures of the Hi tek plungers that I did a 3D print of.  Like I said, they work beautifully in the keyboard,

but the inside is to tight for the keycaps to fit in.

 

David

[toddtmw]

What part is too tight? Is the middle not hollow enough? Or is the outside too big? And which end?

[Mclaneinc]

If you have a source for the 800 yellow tandon mech keyboard plungers do tell  (not sure if Tandon is the right name but they are the yellow ones)

Edited April 20, 2021 by Mclaneinc

[Gunstar]

800 keyboard manufacturers were Stackpole (yellow plungers). Hi-Tek (white plungers) and then Mitsumi like the 1200XL and some other XL's in later 800's. Mine is an early 800 that came with a CIA and top-cover levers, cased OS & ram cards, and a Hi-Tek keyboard. So I think Hi-Tek are the earliest.

Edited April 20, 2021 by Gunstar

[DavidMil]

13 hours ago, toddtmw said:

What part is too tight? Is the middle not hollow enough? Or is the outside too big? And which end?

The out side measurements are perfect.  It is the inside opening on the top half of the plunger that the keycap is supposed to push into that is too

small.  The inside opening needs to be a square opening of 6.82mm minimum.  The inside opening on my plungers is 6.55 not much of difference

(.27mm) but enough to split the plunger each time I would try to force the keycap into it.  I tried to soften up the plunger with heat before I

pushed the keycap into it and that worked beautifully...  The problem then arose that the plunger was too large to go into the socket

on the keyboard and after you pushed the plunger into the keyboard it stuck in the down position.  Which in my case left two lines of "ccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc

ccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc" across the screen before I gave up trying to pull the key up and turned off my 800.

Remember that the .27mm is both top to bottom and .27mm left to right. To make the opening big enough to allow the keycap to fit, I have to

file off .135mm of all four sides.  So I'm working on it.

    Mclaneinc, did yo mean that you had a source for the yellow Stackpole Plungers?

 

David  

[Faicuai]

9 hours ago, Gunstar said:

were Stackpole (yellow plungers)

And Stackpole (GREEN plungers), at end of 800 life-cycle.

 

My 1983 (Made-in-USA) 800 comes with them, they have a super smooth and silky feel, requiring very minimal pressure and vertical travel for key-contact, especially if compared to my 1980 CTIA HiTek white-plungers (but quite sturdy) keyboard, which require more pressure and vertical travel. You tend to hit the latter harder for this simple reason.

[DavidMil]

2 hours ago, Faicuai said:

And Stackpole (GREEN plungers), at end of 800 life-cycle.

 

My 1983 (Made-in-USA) 800 comes with them, they have a super smooth and silky feel, requiring very minimal pressure and vertical travel for key-contact, especially if compared to my 1980 CTIA HiTek white-plungers (but quite sturdy) keyboard, which require more pressure and vertical travel. You tend to hit the latter harder for this simple reason.

I didn't know that they ever made any other then the yellow ones.  Any idea when they switched?

 

David

[Mclaneinc]

Hi David, no, I wish I did, its one of the reasons I reached out to you

 

Thanks to @Faicuai I have a fix but obviously I'd love to be able to replace the plungers (stackpole, that's the name I forgot) so it was as factory..

[Gunstar]

15 hours ago, Faicuai said:

And Stackpole (GREEN plungers), at end of 800 life-cycle.

 

My 1983 (Made-in-USA) 800 comes with them, they have a super smooth and silky feel, requiring very minimal pressure and vertical travel for key-contact, especially if compared to my 1980 CTIA HiTek white-plungers (but quite sturdy) keyboard, which require more pressure and vertical travel. You tend to hit the latter harder for this simple reason.

Cool. I don't think I ever knew green plunger Stackpole's existed. Now I'm jealous of your keyboard and I want one, I won't be holding my breathe to find one though, and for a reasonable price. I really like my HiTek, but I have noticed needing to apply more pressure and the longer travel distance compared to my 1200XL Mitsumi keyboard which is still my favorite, But also my HiTek has the broken corner syndrome from the old, brittle white plunger plastic. Even ones I replaced last year, unbroken replacements, at least half have developed at least one cracked corner again.

 

But I'm not about to pay $100+ for a yellow plunger Stackpole from a dealer with it's reputation and a disclaimer that the keyboard will most like come with cracked plungers or they will pretty much immediately crack with use.

 

Besides, the HiTek keyboard works fine, so far, and all keys return to their proper position, and the key caps don't pop lose during use, but I'm sure a few would fall out if I turned it over. I could look for a Mitusmi 800 keyboard, which I'm sure I'd love, but I like the idea of having a mechanical keyboard on my 800. I just don't know how long it will be before I do start having problems with the plungers.

[Faicuai]

14 minutes ago, Gunstar said:

Cool. I don't think I ever knew green plunger Stackpole's existed.

Here, so you can actually see how they look:

 

 

 

In their absence, the HiTek white-plungers is a pretty good option. The definitely feel different, but, at the same time, also sturdy and durable (provided that it has not been used too much, like checking for no glazing on space-bar). You cannot re-enforce them as shown on the above link (because white plungers have longer travel, thus fully retracting into their sockets), but the white plungers' walls seem (to me) a bit thicker than the green ones.

 

More on this, soon...

Edited April 21, 2021 by Faicuai

[DavidMil]

8 hours ago, Faicuai said:

In their absence, the HiTek white-plungers is a pretty good option. The definitely feel different, but, at the same time, also sturdy and durable (provided that it has not been used too much, like checking for no glazing on space-bar). You cannot re-enforce them as shown on the above link (because white plungers have longer travel, thus fully retracting into their sockets), but the white plungers' walls seem (to me) a bit thicker than the green ones.

 

More on this, soon...

THAT is a very interesting Thread.  I have two Stack Pole and two Hi Tek 800's.  One has a RAMBO card, one has 288K of RAM and two are modified to use external self amplified speakers.

But all have sticking keys.  This would be a wonderful fix for my Stack Pole keyboards!

 

David 

[Mclaneinc]

I take it you have no yellow ones that one could purchase off you David?

 

As said I have 11 that have split so ideally I'd love to get 15 (a few spare).

 

Anyway, so glad your interest in the Atari has peaked again, its always nice to read posts from someone with a passion about the old machine..

 

Paul..

[Gunstar]

6 hours ago, DavidMil said:

THAT is a very interesting Thread.  I have two Stack Pole and two Hi Tek 800's.  One has a RAMBO card, one has 288K of RAM and two are modified to use external self amplified speakers.

But all have sticking keys.  This would be a wonderful fix for my Stack Pole keyboards!

 

David 

I think you mean Axlon card? Rambo was the memory upgrade for the XL line, not the 800...unless there is some Rambo card I never heard of for the 800, in which case, do tell...

Edited April 22, 2021 by Gunstar

[DavidMil]

9 hours ago, Gunstar said:

I think you mean Axlon card? Rambo was the memory upgrade for the XL line, not the 800...unless there is some Rambo card I never heard of for the 800, in which case, do tell...

Sorry.  I had just come off a thread talking about Rambo upgrades.  What I meant was Newell's RAMROD OS board.

David