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Why I am hesitant to buy a PS5


Rick Dangerous

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I really do like Sony consoles and games; many good times over the years.  I got a PS4 Pro pretty late in the game i think 2017 or 18?  Which worked nicely because a ton of good games were out for it already.  I may go the same route with the PS5 if I get one at all.  Here are my issues:

 

-Size.  For me it's just too freaking big and ungainly.  If i do get one i would probably want a "slim" or "pro" down the road a tick.

 

-No good games/exclusives.  There will be; i know, it just takes time.  In the meantime i can handle missing out on Spiderman. 

 

-Digital game ecosphere vs subscription services.  This is a big one for me.  When i got my Xbone; all my Xbox 360 live arcade games just popped right up as being available for download.  When i looked up my PS3 digital purchases on my PS4; they say "available with PS now subscription."  So not only could i not even access the games i paid for already; paying for them again was not an option; it's "buy our subscription service" or too bad for you.  And i don't buy subscription services to anything.  So Playstation is basically going in another direction than where i want to be on that one.  Yeah Xbox has all the subscription services too; but i at least i can still buy digital games if i want too and have all my own old content i paid for already.  Its more consumer friendly.  On the other hand; not rushing to go buy a series X yet either (or ever.)  Just really irks me that Sony did away with the digital purchase model for the classic type games i like to buy/play. 

 

-VR Compatibility.  I basically bought a PS4 for two reasons; Uncharted and VR.  So PSVR works with PS5, but you have to hook up the PS4 camera and accessories?  So it works but it's a hassle?  If they come out with PSVR V2, will it be fully backwards compatible so i don't need to have a bunch of extra crap hooked up?  Another thing i'm going to wait and see on. 

 

-Uncharted.  I can totally see myself buying a PS5 slim and the new uncharted 5 years from now.  Until then, no rush. 

 

-Pay to play online.  Yeah i know; this was PS4 also, but just one more reason to push me to PC ecosphere and keep me there going forward.

 

For most people; these probably are non-issues.  They have big empty shelves from trading in their PS4; and all they know is subscription services.  Maybe i'm just aging out of modern gaming. 

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3 minutes ago, Rick Dangerous said:

-Digital game ecosphere vs subscription services.  This is a big one for me.  When i got my Xbone; all my Xbox 360 live arcade games just popped right up as being available for download.  When i looked up my PS3 digital purchases on my PS4; they say "available with PS now subscription."  So not only could i not even access the games i paid for already; paying for them again was not an option; it's "buy our subscription service" or too bad for you.  And i don't buy subscription

PS5 plays PS4 games with very little hassle.   The reason PS4 couldn't play PS3 games was because the PS4 was unable to emulate the PS3 architecture.   I don't think Sony intended to buy PS Now as a PS3 compatibility platform,  they bought it in response to the "Game Streaming" hype that never materialized into demand,  but playing PS3 games on it filled a need for them.

 

7 minutes ago, Rick Dangerous said:

-VR Compatibility.  I basically bought a PS4 for two reasons; Uncharted and VR.  So PSVR works with PS5, but you have to hook up the PS4 camera and accessories?  So it works but it's a hassle?

It's no more hassle running PSVR on PS5 than it was running it on PS4.   There are some nice benefits,  some VR games are enhanced on PS5.   Like No Man's Sky, it looked pretty awful on PS4 in VR,  but it looks great on PS5.  (it's finally playable in VR for me).  

 

11 minutes ago, Rick Dangerous said:

If they come out with PSVR V2, will it be fully backwards compatible so i don't need to have a bunch of extra crap hooked up?  Another thing i'm going to wait and see on.

They've recently confirmed PSVR2 is in the works and showed off their new motion controllers.  VR tech has advanced a lot since 2016, and most people are hoping they do away with the light-based tracking and have something that works better.     But having different tech may mean backwards compatibility isn't doable.   Sony hasn't said anything about backwards compatibility yet.

 

32 minutes ago, Rick Dangerous said:

-Uncharted.  I can totally see myself buying a PS5 slim and the new uncharted 5 years from now.  Until then, no rush. 

Uncharted 4 still looks amazing on PS4.     And right now, the PS5 just feels like a glorified PS4 because the vast majority of what you will be playing right now are PS4 games.   Some of them do have better visuals and/or performance on PS5,  but still there isn't enough new PS5 content to justify the crazy amounts of demand the console has seen.

 

I wanted it because I love the Souls games, and wanted to play Demon Souls,  I also wanted the improved VR visuals..   I never had a PS4pro, so the PS5 would given me those enhancements as well..      Still, my feeling is I could have waited longer.   But I would have bought one later anyway so no regrets.

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5 minutes ago, zzip said:

PS5 plays PS4 games with very little hassle.   The reason PS4 couldn't play PS3 games was because the PS4 was unable to emulate the PS3 architecture.   I don't think Sony intended to buy PS Now as a PS3 compatibility platform,  they bought it in response to the "Game Streaming" hype that never materialized into demand,  but playing PS3 games on it filled a need for them.

I don't buy it-and i am referring specifically to digital games i bought on PS3 that won't play on PS4 with out PS Now subscription.  There is no reason Wolfenstein 3D or Double Dragon Neon couldn't play on my PS4, clearly they will run on the hardware if you can play them through PS now.  They just want me to subscribe to PS Now and pay again for games i already bought. 

5 minutes ago, zzip said:

It's no more hassle running PSVR on PS5 than it was running it on PS4.   There are some nice benefits,  some VR games are enhanced on PS5.   Like No Man's Sky, it looked pretty awful on PS4 in VR,  but it looks great on PS5.  (it's finally playable in VR for me). 

 

Well you need to have the PS4 Camera; which means two cameras; which is a pain.  Would it be so hard to patch it so the PS5 camera could be used instead? Who wants 2-3 cameras propped up in front of their TV?  

 

They've recently confirmed PSVR2 is in the works and showed off their new motion controllers.  VR tech has advanced a lot since 2016, and most people are hoping they do away with the light-based tracking and have something that works better.     But having different tech may mean backwards compatibility isn't doable.   Sony hasn't said anything about backwards compatibility yet.

For sure; may be inevitable that the tech has moved on and they will be unable to do backwards compatibility.  This would be a huge incentive for current PSVR owners to upgrade though, if they are able to make it work. 

 

5 minutes ago, zzip said:

 

Uncharted 4 still looks amazing on PS4.     And right now, the PS5 just feels like a glorified PS4 because the vast majority of what you will be playing right now are PS4 games.   Some of them do have better visuals and/or performance on PS5,  but still there isn't enough new PS5 content to justify the crazy amounts of demand the console has seen.  I wanted it because I love the Souls games, and wanted to play Demon Souls,  I also wanted the improved VR visuals..   I never had a PS4pro, so the PS5 would given me those enhancements as well..      Still, my feeling is I could have waited longer.   But I would have bought one later anyway so no regrets.

Yep; no harm in being an early adopter!  Many good memories with my consoles i bought at launch and i usually hang onto them longer.  

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Rick Dangerous said:

I don't buy it-and i am referring specifically to digital games i bought on PS3 that won't play on PS4 with out PS Now subscription.  There is no reason Wolfenstein 3D or Double Dragon Neon couldn't play on my PS4, clearly they will run on the hardware if you can play them through PS now.  They just want me to subscribe to PS Now and pay again for games i already bought. 

Yes, if they made PS4 version of them they could run fine, and that's the reason there were so many "remasters" last generation--  New versions of PS3 games with enhance graphics native to the PS4.   It's too bad owners of the PS3 games didn't get the remaster for free.  

 

But PS4 can't handle the emulation burden of PS3 and run the games in their original form.   Even powerful PCs today struggle trying to emulate PS3

 

 

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So i'm not talking about AAA games that are hardware intensive; moreso the digital "classics" that were purchased on PS3 (Doom, Wolf 3d, PS1 games, etc)  that were all still available on PS4, but behind the PS Now paywall. 

 

I get that if a game is fully remastered for new hardware; you are going to have to buy it again (or at least pay an upgrade fee, like the Wii U did with it's eshop titles.) 

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4 minutes ago, Rick Dangerous said:

So i'm not talking about AAA games that are hardware intensive; moreso the digital "classics" that were purchased on PS3 (Doom, Wolf 3d, PS1 games, etc)  that were all still available on PS4, but behind the PS Now paywall. 

 

I get that if a game is fully remastered for new hardware; you are going to have to buy it again (or at least pay an upgrade fee, like the Wii U did with it's eshop titles.) 

The same game as the 90s originals?   There's not reason it can't be done,  it's just whether anyone is motivated to do it.

 

This is why I'm so big into emulation for preserving older games,  because at some point their commercial life ends and you won't be able to obtain them from the publisher

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Well someone was motivated to do it; because they are still on PS4/PS5; you just have to pay for PS Now to access them.  Basically:

 

-I paid for Wolfenstein 3d on PS3, on PS4 i need PS Now to play it

 

-I paid for Wolfenstein 3d on Xbox 360, it's immediately available for download and play on my Xbox One X.

 

Frustrating and leaves a bad taste in my mouth RE my Playstation digital purchases; they only lasted one console generation, while xbox ones are going on 3 gens now! 

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Yeah I was kinda pissed that my PS3 digital games I purchased couldn't be downloaded again to be played on my PS4 when clearly the games are available for both. One really good example of this is the game Okami HD. I bought it when I was playing on my PS3 but bought that one kinda late in the PS3 lifespan because like just a year later, I got my PS4 Pro and didn't find it cool that I couldn't download it again onto my PS4?! Instead I would have to purchase it again? I know some games did come with the ability for cross purchase but they were games released in the timespan when PS3 and PS4 were sharing the market together more closely. That has been one of the reasons I've not switched over to the PS5 yet either. Then again, I was late to the PS4 until Uncharted 4 and Horizon Zero Dawn were released and then got a special deal on Rez Infinite so I pulled the trigger and bought the PS4 Pro like just 2 or 3 years ago. 

 

Also the recent findings with the battery clock game license issues isn't sitting well with me right now either and I've elected to sit on the fence for a good while longer.

 

Honestly, I still have stuff I never started playing on my PS3 and games I've yet to start or finish on the PS4 as well. Hell! I know I have games I've yet to play and put any serious time into on pretty much every console I own now that I think about it?!

 

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Yeah sounds like we followed pretty much the same trajectory.  I still play my PS3 as much or more than i play my PS4, and have enough games to last me 10 years at least on just those two consoles.

 

I think the bottom line is, to get the most out of a modern console, you have to pay for 1 or 2 subsciption services (online gaming/games) and that just doesn't sit well with me.  Just going to keep sitting on the ole' fence; but the way i see it, all the things that made consoles attractive to me, have diminished to nothing, and now they actually have some noticeable disadvantages over the PC equivalent; so i just feel like i'm sort of naturally being pushed in that direction as a matter of thrift and common sense.    But a really good Uncharted game might make me pick one up anyway because i'm a sucker..

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Well I'm not a good gauge for this. With the exception of the original Wii, I've always been late in getting a current console. I didn't even get my first 2600 until '82. My 7800 in '87. Didn't get anything newer than that until the late '99 early 2000s. The Wii is the ONLY console I've ever gotten at launch and Zelda was a large reason for that at the time. My point is that I've always ended up getting a system when it is on its way out. Usually because games become much cheaper both new and second hand used market that make collecting for it that much easier and less expensive. 

 

None of the current gen consoles really interest me that much. I do have a Switch, but I got it for my wife because she is an AC nut and I didn't get it until that game came out. I was playing AC daily on it until about a month ago and I haven't touched the switch since although my wife still plays near daily. We have a few games for it, and I've NEVER even loaded them up yet. One of them being Luigi's Mansion 3 and I really like the series but still haven't put that game in yet to check it out LOL!

 

So yeah, I'm not in any hurry and while I never thought I would say this, I could see this current generation being my last as things move more digital only. 

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I'm starting to think that Sony has no real interest, or incentive, in making PS5 widely available this year.  After all there are not many/enough games to make it a must-have, so instead perhaps they are trying Nintendo's old ploy of keeping supply low to keep demand high.  If they can remain in this holding pattern for several more months, the hype and FOMO continue and it can be "must-have" item again for Holiday 2021.

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The reasons for me are the same for not buying a console since 2003:

 

- I don't even have an HD television and since the PS3 era no console has pushed me to buy one just to play the new games

 

- I believe 3D helps racing games and FPS, but it has overcomplicated other genres (like platform games) and replaced the cool pixel art or beautiful 2D backgrounds with realistic 3D sceneries that don't have the same "magic"

 

 - Simple 3D games like Virtua Racing or Tomb Raider are often more fun than realistic ones. In the case of Tomb Raider, for example, you can see the geometry and find secrets there. This is not possible in modern games.

 

- The "another game like XXXXX" complex. I just saw a preview of Returnal and, while the game looks fantastic, it's just another 3D shooter for me. Same with God of War-style games. I feel like those games could be made for the PS2, or even PS1.

 

As I've said before, the only thing that would make me upgrade my TV or PC to play realistic games are games with no clear objectives and no plot whatsoever, relaxing experiences in huge environments where you can destroy everything. This would actually emulate the true feeling of being in those sceneries by yourself without the repetitive chore of fighting fantastic enemies over and over with the technique of running around them for a bit and then hitting them (one of the "wonders" of 3rd person 3D game since the late 90s).

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21 hours ago, IntelliMission said:

As I've said before, the only thing that would make me upgrade my TV or PC to play realistic games are games with no clear objectives and no plot whatsoever, relaxing experiences in huge environments where you can destroy everything. This would actually emulate the true feeling of being in those sceneries by yourself without the repetitive chore of fighting fantastic enemies over and over with the technique of running around them for a bit and then hitting them (one of the "wonders" of 3rd person 3D game since the late 90s).

So you want to play a game like Minecraft? Relaxing, pixels, destroy everything or build.

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  • 4 weeks later...

In a way all three systems are embracing the subscription model. Nintendo's is just the most lackluster of the three usually only including NES and SNES titles with the subscription, Super Mario 35 being a temporary exception. Their subscription is more about being able to use online play features than letting you try a library of streamable games. But I needed it for Pokemon and my wife needed it for Animal Crossing so we just got a family subscription plan together. 

 

Nintendo was also never that good at transferring digital purchases to a new system. The only time it happened was when users could move digital games from Wii to Wii U. They never had that option for DSi to 3DS or 3DS/Wii U to Switch. I think the Wii to Wii U transfer only happened because the Wii U had a Wii mode built in.

 

So basically Sony is becoming more like Nintendo, just not as bad about it. Nintendo is becoming a little bit better about re-downloading games on a second Switch as long as you sign in on it though. That wasn't possible with Wii, Wii U or 3DS. It's like how Sony was with allowing you to register 2 of each type of system to your PSN account.

 

Xbox is becoming known for being better about backward compatibility but it's not 100% true either. There are tons of original Xbox games that you can't play on an Xbox 360, Xbox One or Series S/X as well as plenty of Xbox 360 games you can't play on an Xbox One or Xbox Series S/X. I have to keep both an original Xbox and Xbox 360 around if I want to be able to play those titles because of this. A lot of them are third party and Microsoft doesn't prioritize compatibility for those.

 

The launch PS3 and the Game Boy Advance just seemed to be the two most perfect ultimate backward compatible systems of any game generation allowing 3 generations of physical games on one device. Everything else only has support for 2 generations, is incompatible with a good chunk of the library, or is only compatible with itself. Digital backward compatibility doesn't really count because only a small portion of a library ever gets re-released that way and you usually have to pay again.

 

PCs on the other hand are the most backward compatible to an extent. XP couldn't play certain Win 95/98 games natively but it could play some of them as well as DOS exe's. I've heard that Vista/7/8/10 probably have an easier time running XP era stuff and each others' eras of games than XP did with 95/98/2000/ME stuff although some of them get glitches that need to be patched out or the games simply need to be run in compatibility mode.

But it's kind of like this: XP came out in 2003? So if Windows 10 is current and can play games from that far back, that's like having BC with PS2, PS3, and PS4 while becoming a PS5 and with patches and compatibility workarounds or GOG re-releases the new PC can also play some games from the Win 95/98/2000/PS1 era like Diablo 1 and 2 with the biggest issues simply being lower color depth or lower screen resolutions not supported by newer graphics hardware. But this is all without even talking about things like virtual machines or DOSBox. There's probably a way to achieve 100% compatibility if you learn how to figure out what limitations need to be set when setting up virtual machines. Old disc games like Sonic 3 & Knuckles Collection run too fast to play if you don't set it up just right. Some really old PC games might not have good controller support either if you're used to playing with those vs keyboard because they were designed for those big game port controllers and not USB.

 

Edited by TheGameCollector
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On 4/23/2021 at 2:13 PM, glazball said:

I'm starting to think that Sony has no real interest, or incentive, in making PS5 widely available this year.  After all there are not many/enough games to make it a must-have, so instead perhaps they are trying Nintendo's old ploy of keeping supply low to keep demand high.  If they can remain in this holding pattern for several more months, the hype and FOMO continue and it can be "must-have" item again for Holiday 2021.

What I don't understand is why Sony, Amazon, etc don't just go ahead and allow the option of pre-ordering indefinitely. That would save everyone the headache of having to search, they could see how many units they need to make to meet the demand, and they could just ship them directly to everyone once a run is completed. That's how manufacturers of special items do it on places like here on Atariage. It may take a long time (SGM) but it eventually happens. Especially if a big company is doing it instead of just one guy who can get sick and not be able to work on it for a while.

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I have a feeling this is going to be a long rant even before I start...

 

So I bailed on gaming sometime in the middle of the PS3/Xbox360 generation and sold all my machines except the GameCube and Dreamcast, that went into the loft. I was just getting so disenchanted with the way things are going. Long story short, I kinda missed gaming, got the GC and DC down from the loft, completed Grandia II and Skies of Arcadia that had sat in my collection unplayed and realised that old games kinda ruled. That set me off on my retro kick and inevitably ended up back with another PS3 and 360 at some point. I dug into the current generation at the time they went slim (I consider the Series and PS5 as next gen as you can't buy them and there's nothing out on them).

 

I really don't like the PS4 and XBone. I don't like what they've allowed the games industry to become. Shipping broken/unfinished/empty products as full price games then monetising them like F2P casinos even if they're single player. Abandoning them if they don't make cash. The industry has all become about ultimate team and not about creating good games. What I mean by that is I mean they're leaning on behavioural bullshit to keep you 'engaged' (spending), rather than making good games. That's why when something like Ghost of Tshushima comes along, which I absolutely loved, but let's face it, it's just the open world game refined to pretty much perfection, is suddenly a breath of fresh air. Release a good game that doesn't just try to empty the players wallet and instead sets out to give you that samurai hero fantasy, you know, like a game should, and that's unusual now.

 

Then there's just the mechanics of the consoles themselves. The number of times I've fired one up to play a game for it to need an update of some form, so you have to wait an hour and go do something else instead. There's DRM that has the potential to brick consoles in the future even if you own the physical games. Not that the games are on the discs, because they're just glorified keys as the games on them are usually just broken messes without their day one patches. Games you bought digitally, well you're just rolling the dice on those really as long term accessability becomes a question more and more people are starting to realise might be a problem.

 

Then you've got the companies attitude towards these consoles that they have power over because of the tech. Sony's new CEO coming out saying there's no value in old games and was about to shut the PS3/Vita stores, just because. I think that's given everyone a moment to consider the preservation side of things, if the companies don't give a shit (because it doesn't make them money). For me it was them essentially endorsing the hacking of all last gen consoles to preserve games I bought. Notice I didn't say owned, because that's in contention as they'd like to essentially lease them to you in the eyes of the law, though that's a bit more complex than them just saying that's the case and it being so.

 

Jailbreaking the PS3 has brought a little piece of mind. But we've still got the CMOS bomb to consider, I suppose I'll have to jailbreak my PS4 some point to prevent that becoming a doorstop. With the Xbox it's the whole concept of your primary console and the way it's DRM works. Which has to connect and verify your game the first time you play it. I had to re-run every single installed game on 4TB worth of storage when I swapped the internal drive to connect to XBox and re-verify all the games so they can now run offline, as long as it remains my primary console of course... I'm not confident that'll be a great long term proposition without hacking taking place at some point.

 

I just don't like any of it, and the PS5/Series currently are doing nothing to convince me that they're worth investing in. Returnal looks good and the first thing that makes me thing, oooh, that might be fun... But that's £70 here (near as damnit $100 US). What do they think they're selling here, NeoGeo games where you're getting an actual arcade machine in a cartridge? Nope, you're getting a disc with a likely unusable version of the game on it that in the future might be a placemat if Sony and Microsoft get their way.

 

That all seems a little doom and gloom I'll admit, but the current climate is that of the corporate machines burning it's way through developers to create adictive, grindy, money draining experiences that are just there to keep you spending like a zombie. I look back on the games from the PS2/Xbox/Gamecube/Dreamcast era and before and I see something that I can still just put in and play when I want, and enjoy as they were designed to be enjoyed. Honestly, part of me hopes the industry dies as it's the only way I can see change happening.

 

So no, I'm not really interested in the PS5 or Xbox Series. I've actually got an 9 year old PC, and buy indie games on GOG more often than not now as they're the closest thing to actually buying a game that you own and will be playable in the future. I don't touch Steam, EGS or MS's stores because they're all reliant on them existing and being connected.

 

Sorry about being an old man shouting at the clouds for a bit there... But occasionally I need to vent.

Edited by juansolo
Excessive use of parenthesis. My English teacher used to give me so much shit for that and she was so right. That didn't need to be in brackets damnit!
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  • 3 months later...
On 5/25/2021 at 3:03 AM, juansolo said:

I have a feeling this is going to be a long rant even before I start...

 

So I bailed on gaming sometime in the middle of the PS3/Xbox360 generation and sold all my machines except the GameCube and Dreamcast, that went into the loft.

Excellent choice. The Dreamcast should never be put into a loft. It's the last system that I've played (and I picked up my first unit in 2004) where I was delighted by almost every game that I tried in the system.

 

The PS4 has just been...there for me. The Last of Us, the marquee title for the system, was just an average experience for me; The Last of Us 2 is really just sort of boring. The only title that I've really loved is AstroBoy, and that hasn't been enough for me to use the system frequently.

 

Maybe I'll buy a PS5 if Half-Life: Alyx comes to the system (and skips the PS4).

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On 4/19/2021 at 6:36 PM, Rick Dangerous said:

Well someone was motivated to do it; because they are still on PS4/PS5; you just have to pay for PS Now to access them.  Basically:

 

-I paid for Wolfenstein 3d on PS3, on PS4 i need PS Now to play it

 

-I paid for Wolfenstein 3d on Xbox 360, it's immediately available for download and play on my Xbox One X.

 

Frustrating and leaves a bad taste in my mouth RE my Playstation digital purchases; they only lasted one console generation, while xbox ones are going on 3 gens now! 

Because whether it's 'only' Wolf 3D or not, it's still a PS3 game that requires a PS3 emulator to run. It's also a bit misleading to say that MS purchases have lasted for three generations - where was a huge number of Xbox titles that wouldn't run on 360, and I've got a 360 with a few dozen digital titles that have never been made compatible with X1. Not just forgotten stuff either - Sega Rally Arcade, Out Run 2 and Afterburner Climax are all on there.

 

Did MS do a better job than Sony? Of course. But I'm kind of in the camp that never really expects true BC either. If they games are that important, keeping the original machine is the only way to be 100% sure.

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I wound up deciding i'll most likely get a PS5 when the "slim" model is released if/when they do that; and if then only when Uncharted 5 is released (my favorite series on PS).

 

The first gen of the console is simply too physically large to fit anywhere in my home entertainment stand, and i'm past the age where i care enough to watch re-stocks for the privilege of buying a videogame console. 

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I recently picked up a used xbox 360 and xbox one..  I realize the ps4 was better than the xbox for the most part, but i had no idea how much better the 360 was compared to the ps3!  The 360 upscales NICELY to 4k tv's and the ps3's 720 output looks like crap.  Now im in process of buying the racing games I love for the 360 that I had for the PS3.  I've decided im going xbox this gen, but waiting to get a disc based series X.  I will regret not being able to get a PSVR2.  I did like the first one a LOT and collected many games for it.. but it lost it's magic.  Also, the brain adapts to VR quickly to the point where after a while it doesn't even feel like VR anymore, it just feels like a screen strapped to your head, similar to how the brain develops a tolerance for drugs.

 

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On 9/23/2021 at 10:20 AM, NeonSpaceBeagle said:

Also, the brain adapts to VR quickly to the point where after a while it doesn't even feel like VR anymore, it just feels like a screen strapped to your head, similar to how the brain develops a tolerance for drugs.

This reinforces that VR still remains an inaccurate novelty. And it wears off over time.

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