Original controller?

[rcajun90]

I had a 7800 back in the 80’s and I remember liking the joystick so I got one for my current 7800.  I don’t like it. It doesn’t seem very responsive.  Is this just the way they are?

[Dopy25]

I remember wanting an Atari super bad as a kid but we were hella poor. I eventually saw them in the early 90's at thrift stores but my parents still weren't willing to fork out any money and I honestly don't remember what I did with the lawn mowing money. Maybe they were still too much. Hmm... Well it doesn't matter. I finally got one last month and it's everything I hoped for. Haha. I did not get a controller with it but am in process of a pro-line. For now I made a compatible controller out of a genesis 3 button. It works like a champ but it still seems unresponsive. The direction works but the buttons seem slow. I'm wondering if it's my resistors. 

 

Long story short, I have a similar issue with my converted SMD controller. I think we're just expecting quick response like modern games and not getting it but I bet that's how it was when we were kids too. 

[4300]

They're horrible.  All of the side button controllers of that era are pretty bad. 

[+Pac-Lander]

The original "PainLine" (ProLine) controllers for the 7800 were very uncomfortable to use, and imo, one of the main reasons Atari fell behind Nintendo and Sega in the 8-bit console wars.

 

The Euro controller pads were much better. You can still get these today. 

 

Even better are the new NES style pads designed and created for the 7800 with 2 button functionality by RetroGameBoyz: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Atari-7800-2600-Controller-Joystick-Control-Pad-Gamepad-Classic-Rainbow-CX78/264477702289

 

 

Edited April 21, 2021 by aaron1677

[+x=usr(1536)]

2 hours ago, rcajun90 said:

I had a 7800 back in the 80’s and I remember liking the joystick so I got one for my current 7800.  I don’t like it. It doesn’t seem very responsive.  Is this just the way they are?

Yours may need a rebuild; mine did after 20 years in storage.  The contacts go bad over time, even if stored carefully.  Best Electronics has kits to rebuild them (or you can purchase them pre-rebuilt); details are here.

 

I went the rebuild route on my CX24s, and while it made a substantial difference, they still weren't comfortable to use for more than about 20 to 30 minutes.  As suggested above, I replaced them with the CX78 joypads; again, I went with the Best units (details here) with the upgraded PCBs and cables.  They've been a huge improvement - not the greatest joypad in the world, but pretty far from the worst, either, and overall I'm happy with them.

 

There's also the option of a Sega Genesis 3-button controller; you'll want to search the forums for that one as I have zero practical experience with it.

[MrTrust]

I really, really disliked that joystick as a kid and my hands would get really tired using it.  Got back into the 7800 a few years back, and I don't find it quite so bad now.  I think the design is bad and causes people to hold it "wrong".

 

For one, the overly long base inclines you toward gripping it with your hand away from the stick, and your thumb extended out toward the button.  Think of gripping a cell phone and using the power button or volume rocker.  Really, it's more comfortable to grip it more toward the stick with your thumb toward the top of the button, and use both your index and ring fingers for the second button.

 

The big issue is the stick itself.  The joystick has just a hair more throw to it than it feels like it should, because rather than rocking the tabs down on the contacts like on a CX40, they actually rock up toward them.  This gives your brain the feeling that it requires more force to make contact than it actually does, and you wind up jamming on the stick a lot harder than you need to.  Of course, the hand you're holding it with has to apply counterforce to stop you from tilting the whole thing, and if you're getting the button a lot at the same time, this is going to tire your hands out in a hurry.  But if you hold the controller with your thumb on top of the stick and play a game of Ms. Pac-Man, you should be able to do so easily without a lot of force on the stick.  If you can sort of train your hands to be a little more gentle with it, using that lower level of force, the discomfort should go away.

 

If your contacts are indeed bad, this advice will do you no good, and YMMV anyway, but I find it helps a lot.  Fortunately, many (most?) 7800 games can be played with a single-button joystick just fine.  Unfortunately, I don't think you can just swap out the whip with a CX40 and add another button without making more modifications.

 

 

Edited April 21, 2021 by MrTrust

[Dopy25]

I desoldered all the components from my 3 button and added the resistors as specced for the pro-line for lines 5,6&9. Works like a champ but still feels sluggish. I know I need to change out the resistors to single. Right now I have 3 in series to meet the requirements but it seems odd. Maybe that will help. 

 

My point still stands that I think coming into it years later we still expect the same amount of responsiveness as more modern hardware. I'm hoping I'm wrong but even my 2600 seems more sluggish than I'd like. 

[rcajun90]

Do you guys think it would help to open it up and clean it?

[Dopy25]

13 minutes ago, rcajun90 said:

Do you guys think it would help to open it up and clean it?

Well it wouldn't hurt at all. Just make sure you clean and put everything back where it goes. I haven't had my hands on one to take apart but for my 3 button, the contacts were corroded. 

[+MattelAquarius]

8 hours ago, Dopy25 said:

...Works like a champ but still feels sluggish...I'm hoping I'm wrong but even my 2600 seems more sluggish than I'd like. 

 

If you are connected to a modern TV (non CRT), be sure to enable "Game Mode" on the display.  This will help reduce any inherent latency between your inputs on the controller, and output on the screen.  

[+DrVenkman]

A couple years ago I got an Edladdin Seagull 78 and now use a 3-button Genesis pad for nearly all my 7800 gaming. Works beautifully. 

[TeddyBear89]

22 minutes ago, DrVenkman said:

A couple years ago I got an Edladdin Seagull 78 and now use a 3-button Genesis pad for nearly all my 7800 gaming. Works beautifully. 

This.

[4300]

24 minutes ago, DrVenkman said:

A couple years ago I got an Edladdin Seagull 78 and now use a 3-button Genesis pad for nearly all my 7800 gaming. Works beautifully. 

Imo, the seagull 78 is the way to go. You can use a standard genesis controller or any of the arcade style genesis controllers. 

[+Pac-Lander]

6 hours ago, DrVenkman said:

A couple years ago I got an Edladdin Seagull 78 and now use a 3-button Genesis pad for nearly all my 7800 gaming. Works beautifully. 

That's dope. I might have to pick this up just to use the Sports Pad trackball.

[+wongojack]

17 hours ago, Dopy25 said:

I desoldered all the components from my 3 button and added the resistors as specced for the pro-line for lines 5,6&9. Works like a champ but still feels sluggish. I know I need to change out the resistors to single. Right now I have 3 in series to meet the requirements but it seems odd. Maybe that will help. 

 

My point still stands that I think coming into it years later we still expect the same amount of responsiveness as more modern hardware. I'm hoping I'm wrong but even my 2600 seems more sluggish than I'd like. 

It doesn't take as much resistance as the spec indicates.  I can't remember, but I assume all these years later that those resistors are pulling the voltage up.  That's just a guess.  I've experimented with different values, but it has been a while since I did that. I suspect that anything between 300 and 1k would probably get the job done.  

 

However . . . I don't really think that too much resistance would be causing it to be sluggish.  I dunno - I would expect that if too much resistance was the problem that you would get situations where you would have to press multiple times to get a success, or it just wouldn't work.  I can also say that I built this stick https://atariage.com/forums/topic/213868-another-plug-play-joystick-hack/ where I used resistors in series and the buttons were very responsive.  I also have the Seagull 78 mentioned above and do not experience any sluggishness with that and a Sega pad.

 

[Dopy25]

Hmm. Maybe I'll take one out. I put 3x 220 per line.

 

Funny you say it like that. For me that's literally the sluggish part. It seems like it takes multiple presses sometimes. I chalked it up to old tech because it's been awhile since I've used one.

[rcajun90]

1 hour ago, Dopy25 said:

Hmm. Maybe I'll take one out. I put 3x 220 per line.

 

Funny you say it like that. For me that's literally the sluggish part. It seems like it takes multiple presses sometimes. I chalked it up to old tech because it's been awhile since I've used one.

That’s how mine is working.  It works but seems sluggish.

[Dopy25]

14 minutes ago, rcajun90 said:

That’s how mine is working.  It works but seems sluggish.

I'm thinking your buttons may need to be cleaned since you have an original controller. Mine is a sega pad I modified but I bet your contacts are dirty. I don't think your resistors would be bad. Idk if that's a thing. Hmm.

[+wongojack]

12 hours ago, Dopy25 said:

Hmm. Maybe I'll take one out. I put 3x 220 per line.

 

Funny you say it like that. For me that's literally the sluggish part. It seems like it takes multiple presses sometimes. I chalked it up to old tech because it's been awhile since I've used one.

Is it "sluggish" and require multiple presses for 2600 games?

[Dopy25]

23 minutes ago, wongojack said:

Is it "sluggish" and require multiple presses for 2600 games?

Good question. I'll give that a shot in a few.

[Dopy25]

@wongojack

 

They seem pretty fine on 2600 games.

 

I also went back to Xenophobe and tried again and they seem acceptable but still kinda slow on the response time. I cleaned all the contacts on the board, they were a bit funky when I was modifying the pad. I suppose the rubber contacts may also be worn down. I'll try to find some replacements and go from there. Also getting those resistors in tomorrow. I will be lowering the total resistance between the grounds and report back.

[rcajun90]

On 4/20/2021 at 6:46 PM, Dopy25 said:

Well it wouldn't hurt at all. Just make sure you clean and put everything back where it goes. I haven't had my hands on one to take apart but for my 3 button, the contacts were corroded. 

Is it anymore complicated than the 2600?

[+wongojack]

36 minutes ago, rcajun90 said:

Is it anymore complicated than the 2600?

It isn't really more complicated to take apart the 7800 controller compared to the 2600.  In fact it is kind of hard to clean the contacts on the 2600 because they are taped down and you have to replace the tape which inevitably fails after that. 

 

I can't remember cleaning the 7800 contacts, but I don't think they are taped.  Honestly, I wouldn't even try if I were you.  I would just buy the Seagull 78 and get a ubiquitous Genesis pad.

FYI the Seagull 78 is usually sold on the AtariAge store, but it seems at this specific moment that the store is closed.  Here's the original sale location just for reference:  Seagull 78 (edladdin.com)

 

You can of course build an adapter yourself, it is basically just some wires, resistors, and a transistor.  The schematic is here on Atariage . . . somewhere

[BladeJunker]

I'm kind of a weirdo, it's the only controller of this era I actually like, and I hate "side" buttons lol. I think it's the big area for grip rather than trying to avoid the keypads with your fingers, don't get me started about keypads. ? You're in luck, lots of options now.

 

Edladdin makes really great high quality arcade sticks for all the systems but they are a bit large and the most expensive option. https://www.edladdin.com/Arcade-Controllers_c2.htm

 

I managed to get an EU gamepad, I quite like that one too. It's not as comfortable as a NES gamepad in that I find the thumbstick mandatory because the D-pad edges are so sharp. If they had just rounded the edges it would be more comfortable either way.

 

Got a Seagull78 from AA, I like Genesis pads so that was a no brainer.

 

And going to get that arcade stick Bratwurst is making to have a controller with that arcade feel in a compact package.

[Dopy25]

1 hour ago, wongojack said:

 

You can of course build an adapter yourself, it is basically just some wires, resistors, and a transistor.  The schematic is here on Atariage . . . somewhere

And if you want to wait until my parts come in, I am building a small batch of adapters to do just this. Will be in the marketplace when I get everything in. I bought enough parts to make 15, and I am keeping 2. I found a good price to buy in bulk and I made an agreement with someone here that I would sell the remaining in the marketplace and not on ebay.

Edited April 23, 2021 by Dopy25