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Ive been thinking about the Legends Arcade cabinet and how it can link up with a AFBX or a LFB 100 games unit.

Here is a video showing it hooked up to a stock LFB.

 

 

So what happens when you hook an atari flashback x with nexus up to a Legends Arcade cabinet?

Edited by Draxxon

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5 hours ago, Draxxon said:

So what happens when you hook an atari flashback x with nexus up to a Legends Arcade cabinet?

This just blew my mind!  I have always assumed the ONLY controller support is for the GPIO based 9-pin ports on these flashbacks, but this certainly proves there is other support via the USB port.

 

I can try it - I own a legends ultimate but have never done this.  BTW - possibly our modified firmware breaks this but I don't know why it would.

 

Could the APL support be in the Gamer Pro devices also?

 

 

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7 hours ago, Draxxon said:

So what happens when you hook an atari flashback x with nexus up to a Legends Arcade cabinet?

To my amazement - so far it works like a charm!!!

 

These results are a bit preliminary as I was too excited to do a more thorough check.  I could play 7800 Robotron with both joysticks.  I brought up arcade Bubble Bobble and was able to map the jump and fire buttons to the a and b buttons on the legends ultimate.  Meaning - those extra buttons are available to cores!

 

I was not able to drop bombs in 7800 scramble, but based on experience I believe the core could be adjusted to do that - or possibly we can use the button mapping in the retroplayer.l

 

So, on it's own this Arcade Play Link is cool, but it also feels like there is at least a chance of getting some other USB controller going - I mean isn't the Legends Ultimate deck just a fancy USB fight stick?

 

@Draxxon - Does the Legends Core thing have the APL device menu in its setup?

 

Update on LFB: My Legends Flashback 2018/50 game device does not appear to support this, so I suspect that you need the newer 100 game device to have this supported.  And now I noticed Draxxon specifically said 100 games unit.

 

Edited by rocketfan
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No, the Legends Core (LC) does not have the 2nd HDMI port and switcher button. Plus, in Settings, Arcade Play Link (APL) is greyed out and not selectable/supported. (Also not supported on the LC is the Wireless Control Deck Mode (R.Pi Mode), OTG Mode or Control Mirroring.) As you know Rocket, I have been setting my LC up the last couple weeks. I had really not done anything with the LC because I was always tinkering with the AFBs and LFBs. I think this APL feature is nice for these AA community projects because these plug and plays are getting older and the LUA is still pretty new and relevant, and these P&P Consoles still link up to them. Squeezing a little more life and usefulness out of these packs.

I have the 100 games LFB unit, but I don't own the Legends Ultimate Arcade (LUA). So I cant try any of this. If I had those options in the LC's Settings I would have figured this out sooner. I just happened to see an old video today of APL with a LFB and the guy was playing some sideloaded Spiderman game. I always just assumed that you could play the built in games only. Today I realized the community builds will probably work as is and there are a few hardcore LUA owners that may dig this. I'm hoping maybe the Youtubers will discover the AA community builds and will hook them up to their LUA and make some videos.

Really cool to hear about the extra buttons. Do you have spinners and will those control the Atari paddle games? Also, how exactly does the LFB and LUA connect together? Thru the HDMI port? In the video above by CoolToy, he says he could just plug the LFB2 into the wall and use the wall power cord. Is he wrong? do you need the USB connection for the Controls?

I wonder if the Legends Connect SBC has APL. If you could somehow jam one of those into a AFBX or a LFB2 or something.

 

Edited by Draxxon

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30 minutes ago, Draxxon said:

So, how exactly does the LFB and LUA connect together? Thru the HDMI port?

I think (but not sure) the HDMI is still just the video.  You can hook anything up to that HDMI port and just push the button to display it.  I am guessing it's done via USB and the deck is just acting as a double USB controller.  Interesting though that the AFBX is actually getting enough power from the USB port on the Legends Ultimate.  I assume it needs close to an amp - much more than a typical USB stick would.  AFAIK a lot of devices and even some USB ports on computers don't provide that much current.  I should be able to prove if it is only the USB connection by hooking to an external monitor rather than the Legends Ultimate Monitor.  I will try that tomorrow.

 

Maybe someone out there knows a bit more about this APL and how it really works?

 

 

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I figure you're right. The extra HDMI ports just go to the screen, but, CoolToy threw me off when he pulled out the wall adapter and said you could go that route. I bet he was wrong, and it will be easy to check like you said. An easier method than dragging another monitor over would be to plug the AFBX power into the wall and not the LUA and see if the LUA's controls still work.

It never even dawned on me that it was an extra controller thru USB, and what we have been searching for, even though it is so obvious and was in our faces all this time. (I bet you the system is looking for a USB Keyboard, just like BobsTossAway said.) No, actually all I thought about was getting these Youtubers to make some promotional vids for the forum and the pack, lol. To be honest, when I first saw all of this APL stuff, I just assumed that the games somehow downloaded from the flashbacks to the LUA and that is how it all worked. I never really thought too much about it again until today.

About the USB power... Ive always just hooked my Mini Classic Consoles to my TV's USB port for power. The only mini that it didnt work on was the PSX Classic, IIRC.

Off topic a bit, but, one thing I wonder about as well is the LFB2 community build connecting to the LUA. Mainly because that CFW is built off of the OFW that had no or shitty APL connectivity (I can't remember). It was the final OFW that added the online leaderboards for 4 or 5 games and the added or improved (again, can't remember) APL connectivity. On a side note, it looks like the price of the LFB2 is going up. (BTW, did you try APL with the LFB1 running stock as well?)

Rocket, it looks like only the LUA has APL. I dont think the joysticks, Legends Connect SBC or even the Pinball Machine have APL. Just the $600+ arcade cabinets, maybe I'm wrong, but thats what it looks like after a quick check on the AtGames online store.

 

 

Edited by Draxxon

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4 hours ago, rocketfan said:

 

I mean isn't the Legends Ultimate deck just a fancy USB fight stick?

 

I wanna say its just a USB keyboard. 

 

I have seen some troubleshooting ReadMe texts while setting up my LC that explains how some cores like SNES and the original GBA core the reddit sauce chefs (GOD that is a horrible name, lmmfao) used had no way to map select to a button on the LUA control panel. They hooked up a USB keyboard and hit the letter D key for the Select Button as a workaround.

Digging in a little further, I find that the Legends Connect SBC (LCSBC) has some info on how to swap it into a pandoras box? (WTF, that's weird to me)

AN101PandorasBoxCompatibility.pdf (atgames.net)

Then this pdf shows the pinout for the GPIO on the LCSBC:
LegendConnect_IM_std_20201116 (atgames.net)

 

So I thought I would check the pandoras box pinout to see if I could learn anything, but, I'm clueless when it comes to some of this stuff. I thought maybe D would be select, but its not. Is this the same as JAMMA?
 

GRUmb28.jpg

I'm not sure any of this applies or helps, but I think we are on to something.

Edited by Draxxon

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11 hours ago, Draxxon said:

Digging in a little further, I find that the Legends Connect SBC (LCSBC) has some info on how to swap it into a pandoras box?

Well, it's pretty interesting.  But I'm still not sure what it all means.  I experimented today and found out I was totally wrong when I thought it was using USB.  I proved that Draxxon's first thought as indicated by the CoolToys guy - is correct - it is done via the HDMI!

 

The reason I thought is was the USB is due to videos like this:

 

In that video you can see him in the Pi's interface detecting the control deck as "ATGAMES LEGENDS ULTIMATE" gamepad.  That is clearly due to entering the USB's OTG mode - which does seem to involve using the alternate HDMI source.

 

However - to add confusion - you can ALSO connect a Pi to the control deck via bluethooth - ETA Prime has a vid on that - I am not linking it.

 

Anyway, cutting to the chase - here are the steps I followed:

-Tried using a sep display connected to AFBX with the USB connected - no dice.

-Decided having an alternate video signal coming in might be key to the Ultimate's USB port being in "otg" mode - so hooked up my LFB to the HDMI on the ultimate to fake it out - still no good on the AFBX control.

-Finally just used a separate power supply - nothing plugged into the USB ports of the Ultimate - AFBX plugged into the Ultimate HDMI port - works like a charm.

 

So, that last step says it all - I was a skeptic, but it's over the HDMI port.

 

Any experts in HDMI communication out there?

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One other strange thing.  When playing the 8-bit games on the AFBX via the Legends Ultimate display and control deck - the player 1 and 2 control sets are swapped.  So Player 1 plays on right and player 2 on left.  No idea why that is - mame games and 7800 games were using the left controls.

 

Maybe I'm the first person ever to play Galactic Chase and Embargo on the Legends Ultimate.  🙂

 

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I found this - describing the CEC feature of HDMI which can be used to "back-control" connected devices:

 

https://www.nakamichi-usa.com/what-is-hdmi-cec

 

Also, Interesting, a lot of the trade names for that have "link" in them.  SO - if you hook up a AFBX to a TV with the CEC enabled - can you make it do anything?

HDMI-CEC Trade Names

List of “HDMI-CEC” branded trade name:

  • AOC: E-link

  • Hitachi: HDMI-CEC (Thank you, Hitachi!)

  • LG: SimpLink

  • Mitsubishi: NetCommand for HDMI

  • Onkyo: RIHD (Remote Interactive over HDMI)

  • Panasonic: HDAVI Control, EZ-Sync, or VIERA Link

  • Philips: EasyLink

  • Pioneer: Kuro Link

  • Runco International: RuncoLink

  • Samsung: Anynet+

  • Sharp: Aquos Link

  • Sony: BRAVIA Sync

  • Toshiba: CE-Link or Regza Link

  • Vizio: CEC

 

And in the includes folder from the device are some CEC related headers I am attaching. So, I think it possible they are using the "remote button" commands? Or maybe some specific commands?

 

Again - I wonder if you have a TV which supports this CEC - is there a way to get your remote to do anything on the AFBX?

 

cec.h cec-funcs.h

Edited by rocketfan

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1 hour ago, rocketfan said:

 

 

 

@6:55 that Vanilla Mortal Kombat 3 is running slow.

 

WIN_20210926_11_54_19_Pro.jpg

 

Shitty pic, but, I have a newer Element brand TV, I hit menu button on the remote. Next i went to Set Up. I scrolled down to HDMI CEC and clicked on it. It was already set to on, which gives you these options: Auto Standby (on), Auto TV On (on), HDMI Arc (off), Device Control (on) and Device List. If you click on Device List it searches for devices, It found my Roku and says HDMI3 - Playback 1:Roku. Clicking that takes me to my Roku, the TV remote doesnt seem to control the Roku box. I haven't got the AFBX out right now to check but I will later today. Pretty cool stuff.

I didnt know what HDMI Arc was, so I looked it up:

 

"The often-overlooked ARC stands for "Audio Return Channel," and ever since the HDMI 1.4 standard was introduced, ARC has been available on TVs, soundbars and receivers. This protocol offers two-way communication between devices over a single HDMI connection. Essentially, the HDMI ARC port lets you use HDMI as both an input and an audio output."


Okay, so what do I try?  Use the TV remote to control the AFBX or do I need to stick a USB Keyboard into my TV's USB Port?

Edited by Draxxon

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Really no idea.  I bought a cheap Insignia TV from Best Buy last year just for a test setup with these devices.  It has a CEC menu, but the device search will not return anything for the AFBX.  Maybe they are doing something similar, but it is a bit proprietary.

 

Nice that you can use the device with the ALU, but it's a little backward.  To me a major positive point of the flashbacks is they operate like a console - so I can hook to my TV, sit on my couch and play.

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Well, at least the LUA owners will have something fun to check out if they ever discover it. (It looks like LUA *UGH* saUCE packs on archive lack Atari 800, ZX Spectrum, wonderswan, pokemon mini, G&W and maybe more. So, there will be something new for LUA owners.) Plus, you discovered a $600 solution for extra button and dual joystick games support for your AFBX. :P (It's cool that you already had one so you can mess with it) And, we have a clue how other controllers working over the HDMI port functions.

Now I have to wonder. Does the LFB2 ULTIMATE Community Build work on the LUA with APL? Should making new, up-to-date, CFW for the LFB1, LFB2 and LFB2Deluxe (Which has no CFW ATM) be a priority? I understand there is the issue of, who knows how to make new CFW???

R.png

P.S. All this cracks me up because it feels like we are hooking the LUA up to the AFBX as an "other controllers" solution, and not the other way around (just to play the Atari games on your LUA) as intended. lol. I guess old Bill L. was right all along. The LUA Family of products and its ecosystem really is the future. LMMFAO.

Edited by Draxxon
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57 minutes ago, Draxxon said:

Does the LFB2 ULTIMATE Community Build work on the LUA with APL?

This is a good question.  I grabbed the retromenu from the original LFB2 2019 FW update to see if it would allow my older unit to work.  That file is NOT hacked as needed, BTW - but the menu did at least come up.  Sadly I could not control it.  So, maybe that support lies outside of retromenu/retroplayer? 

 

I did enough googling to find out the CEC bus can communicate *across* the HDMI ports on your TV.  So if you have a raspberry pi on a port you should be able to use this (link below) to run commands on another device.  I would be excited if anyone's TV can find the AFBX as a CEC device - since my TV would not find it, let the wind out of my sails a bit.

https://pimylifeup.com/raspberrypi-hdmi-cec/ 

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I do have that Atari R.Pi 3B+ so I can try that stuff sometime today. (It would be nice to finally find a use for it.)

It would be sweet to figure out how to get LFB1s to APL connect to LUA. I'm guessing AFB9s are a bust because flashing them to an X is going to break your SD Card slot, and your all-games.ini/game list, like that dude recently. I wonder if AFB9s gain OTG support when flashed to an X?

You know, I never messed with the LCore because I felt guilty that I wasn't spending time on these flashback projects instead. I'm actually glad I did. And it looks like I get to mess with the R.Pi next, which was my plan. It sure would be neat to run other controllers thru it, thru the TV HDMI, on the AFBX. basically swap the LUA with a R.Pi and your TV. Cool stuff.

Is there a way to run the LUA to a 2nd monitor (while hooked up to the AFBX) like a living room TV? and then use PS5 pads or Legends Gamepads wirelessly linked to the LUA? Also, you can use PS5 pads with the LUA correct? So, you can use those during APL with the AFBX, correct?

Edited by Draxxon

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I tried searching for device (AFBX) in HDMI-CEC mode on my Element brand TV, but, It didn't see it or the LFB2. Just the Roku.

I haven't tried with the R.Pi yet.

Edited by Draxxon

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6 hours ago, Draxxon said:

Is there a way to run the LUA to a 2nd monitor (while hooked up to the AFBX) like a living room TV? and then use PS5 pads or Legends Gamepads wirelessly linked to the LUA? Also, you can use PS5 pads with the LUA correct? So, you can use those during APL with the AFBX, correct?

I don't know about the second display.  There is not an obvious way, anyway.  I haven't looked at controller support in a long while but it has improved.  I was able to hook up a Hyperkin Trooper II and use it to play all the built-in 2600 games on the Legends Ultimate - very nice!  It will also play the other built-in games (mame and Genesis).  I also played an added-in mame game but I had some difficulty with a 5200 game.

 

However, the Trooper 2 stops working as soon as I switch the mode to the AFBX.  I believe switching the display also switches the USB ports to OTG mode, so that may be the issue.  I may have a bluetooth controller someplace, but if so it will be a little buried.  I will have to look around.

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I remembered AA User No Quarter said this in the 2021 speculation thread (2nd monitor).

 

"Best current solution for 4-player gaming w/ ALU is to add a Gamer Pro & separate TV/monitor as has been demonstrated by BuyStuffStore."

 

Edited by Draxxon

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9 minutes ago, Draxxon said:

"Best current solution for 4-player gaming w/ ALU is to add a Gamer Pro & separate TV/monitor as has been demonstrated by BuyStuffStore."

I found this:

Seems like it is the other way around, the gamer-pro's puck is outputting to both a TV and also to a LU, not two displays from the LU.  It's all complicated!  If bluetooth controllers work and the board level Ultimate thing (already forgot what it is called) from atGames can do the APL you could have a working solution though.  I never could get 8-bit games (outside of some 5200) working on the Legends Ultimate.  I think asking for help on that was the reason for my first post ever on Atariage.

 

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if by "Board level ultimate thing" you mean the Legends Connect Single Board Computer, it does not have APL.

 

Bill L says the cabinet, the mini cabinet and the pinball (And some future, mystery, AtGames products) only have APL. 

I also wanna take a second to say Congrats to Rocketfan, for solving his own mystery and getting Atari 800 on the flashbacks and ultimately his LUA. If there is one thing I learned doing all this crap its... If you really want something to happen, you have to do it yourself. Good Job, brother.

P.S. That R.Pi to the TV stuff looks complicated, what do you think the chances it will work are? You do realize I just know paint programs and not command lines and stuff, right? :) lol. If I have to SSID in with scart using lakka or some shit it's over with. Ha ha ha.

Edited by Draxxon

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30 minutes ago, Draxxon said:

Bill L says the cabinet, the mini cabinet and the pinball only have APL. 

I didn't know they were introducing a mini cabinet.  I see on the atGames website the "coming soon" for flashbacks has reverted to "sold out" again.  Did I miss it, or were there never any available?

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16 minutes ago, rocketfan said:

I didn't know they were introducing a mini cabinet.  I see on the atGames website the "coming soon" for flashbacks has reverted to "sold out" again.  Did I miss it, or were there never any available?

No idea on the flashback stock, I noticed too, but didn't mention it because it is a bummer.

 

I'm predicting the future AtGames product with APL is a bartop cabinet. I bet the Core Max and LC SBC never get it.

 

Here is the Mini:

OIP.jpg

Edited by Draxxon

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7 hours ago, Draxxon said:

I'm predicting the future AtGames product with APL is a bartop cabinet. I bet the Core Max and LC SBC never get it.

I have seen AtGames has a prototype they are working for a Legends Ultimate Racer that will include their upcoming legends connect 2 board with possible multi monitor output.

 

AtGamesLegendsUltimateRacer.jpg

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50 minutes ago, TheRingBearer said:

Legends Ultimate Racer

That looks pretty cool, though I am not into racing games enough to get an extra entire cabinet for it.  A bartop version would sell well and is sure a natural for atGames to add.  Of course my complaint on the mini is no trackball or spinner.  Having those controls pre-integrated was a big draw of the Legends Ultimate for me. Playing Tempest with a real spinner is great.

 

I wonder if atGames would open their APL specs?  I mean they say it is an "open and connected" gaming system.  Are there other third party devices which would use it?  Imagine a Chinese handheld from Anbernic with HDMI out that you could plug into your Legnds Ultimate and immediately control the thing with the cabinet deck - IMO that would be sweet!

 

https://arcades.atgames.net/wp-content/themes/atgames/images/legendsultimate_logo.png

Edited by rocketfan

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9 hours ago, Draxxon said:

That R.Pi to the TV stuff looks complicated, what do you think the chances it will work are?

Just saw that comment.  🙂  Since neither of our CEC menus ID the AFBX, I have to say odds are low you will be able to hit the device from those utilities.  I think we would need more info. from atGames - or possibly someone out there has an HDMI "snooper" like "Wireshark" for HDMI, but I think those devices might be rare and expensive.  If you are a smart TV developer or something you might have one.

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