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MrZarniwoop

Review for new RetroTINK 5X-Pro notes Atari 7800 S-Video performance

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17 hours ago, SearsRoebuck said:

Ah, yes, I almost bought the mini too - why do I need component? I asked. Good thing I had second thoughts about the mini at the last second.

 

Sounds like you're going to have to upgrade no matter what. 

I'm actually contemplating selling the whole rig and just sticking with emulation on the Retropie. Just too much hassle for not enough gain. Sega SMS/Genesis/32x/CD emulation is pretty much perfect on it.

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Hey guys, my 7800 has this S-Video mod. I haven’t been able to try it out on a real CRT, but the modder sent me a picture of it outputting fine.

 

unfortunately, I’m getting a weird color issue on my 5x. Could this just be the S-Video cable or how the cartridge was seated?

 

Here’s what it looks like

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11 hours ago, Nbda1978 said:

unfortunately, I’m getting a weird color issue on my 5x. Could this just be the S-Video cable or how the cartridge was seated?

The RetroTINK 5X-Pro is new enough that it's hard to know where to start. Do all games look like that? Or just the one cart has issues? Does composite video look the same? I would guess it's a RetroTINK 5X-Pro issue, as your picture looks like inverted colors rather than signal noise. Have you played with any of the RetroTINK 5X-Pro configuration settings?

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On 5/2/2021 at 11:31 AM, MrZarniwoop said:

The RetroTINK 5X-Pro has a triple buffering mode which, when enabled, means it should handle dynamic resolution/scanline changes ok.

 

But curious to see if that's really the case.

I'm also extremely curious of how it handles Atari 2600 and 7800 resolution and scanline changes.

 

I currently run my RGB modded Atari 2600 and SVideo modded Atari 7800 through a Framemeister and a lot of times I when load a game using the Harmony, Concerto, Dragonfly or even a plain old cartridge I have to wait 5-10 seconds for the Framemeister to sort itself out so the video can come back from changing resolutions/scanlines.

 

I would buy a RetroTINK 5X in a heartbeat if it's confirmed that it can perform rock solid video output from both the 2600 & 7800 so there are no dropouts. I'm guessing once more get into the hands of people with 2600/7800s we'll have some more results available.

 

- James

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20 minutes ago, ZeroPage Homebrew said:

I'm also extremely curious of how it handles Atari 2600 and 7800 resolution and scanline changes.

 

I currently run my RGB modded Atari 2600 and SVideo modded Atari 7800 through a Framemeister and a lot of times I when load a game using the Harmony, Concerto, Dragonfly or even a plain old cartridge I have to wait 5-10 seconds for the Framemeister to sort itself out so the video can come back from changing resolutions/scanlines.

 

I would buy a RetroTINK 5X in a heartbeat if it's confirmed that it can perform rock solid video output from both the 2600 & 7800 so there are no dropouts. I'm guessing once more get into the hands of people with 2600/7800s we'll have some more results available.

 

- James

My experience experimenting with the Framemeister is that is handles dynamic scanlines fine, but does not handle video timing changes. In particular, the weird interlaced modes going back to 240p knock it out to resync for much longer than the OSSC or RetroTINK 2X products. But, the Framemeister beats them in handling dynamic scanline counts without resyncing (in SYNC OFF mode), OSSC being second best there (if configured with highest thresholds), and RetroTINK 2X the worst (and unconfigurable).

 

The RetroTINK 5X triple buffering is described to handle 480i/480p transitions without resync delay, which happens on some PS2 games. That's not exactly the Atari 2600 in Buck Rodgers and a few other scenarios, but it gives hope.

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11 hours ago, ZeroPage Homebrew said:

I'm also extremely curious of how it handles Atari 2600 and 7800 resolution and scanline changes.

This reddit post on a cartridge-slotted Atari Flashback 2 says: "I did not have a signal drop when playing games with a lot of screen transitions or full screen psychedelic effects that the 70s/80s loved."

 

So far so good. But still not seen a deep dive anywhere with a 2600/7800.

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Posted (edited)

I only have a 7800, but no Dragonfly yet. I do have a Harmony Encore. What are some challenging/sync issue 2600 games to test out? Make me a list. I have a 5X and I may be able to do a quick video/test. 

Edited by dlmartins

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1 hour ago, dlmartins said:

I only have a 7800, but no Dragonfly yet. I do have a Harmony Encore. What are some challenging/sync issue 2600 games to test out? Make me a list. I have a 5X and I may be able to do a quick video/test. 

Asteroids

Moon Patrol

Buck Rogers

Empire Strikes Back

 

This is a longshot, but I also want to see tests with s-video modded Genesises/32xs.  Some unmodded Genesises have problems with the 2x even with just composite though.  I have to use HD retrovision cables with my 32x set up or I get 'rolling' colors in svideo mode (and B&W in composite). 

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1 hour ago, dlmartins said:

I only have a 7800, but no Dragonfly yet. I do have a Harmony Encore. What are some challenging/sync issue 2600 games to test out. I have a 5X and I may be able to do a quick video/test. 

- SwordQuest - Fireworld

 

This would be a great one to test as it is constantly changing scanline count when you go in and out of the games.

 

Here's a very full list of original 2600 titles and their scanline count. Probably any that you see on the list that have a variety of scanline count range would be good tests.

 

- James

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1 hour ago, ZeroPage Homebrew said:

- SwordQuest - Fireworld

 

This would be a great one to test as it is constantly changing scanline count when you go in and out of the games.

 

Here's a very full list of original 2600 titles and their scanline count. Probably any that you see on the list that have a variety of scanline count range would be good tests.

 

- James

Unfortunately it’s not *only* scanline changes that throw off the RetroTink 2X-Pro. Starmaster, for instance, flat refuses to show an image at all on any of my modern TV’s through the Tink, and SW:ESB gets flummoxed when you destroy a Walker. I think @RevEng told me in another thread it was due to an inconsistent HSYNC in the display kernel. 

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First report of RetroTINK-5X Pro on a 2600RGB: 

 

 
And, a good sign, this is with the triple-buffering which I think is what will allow for stability with video sync changes:
 

 

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16 minutes ago, dlmartins said:

Here's a quick-ish video running through some of the games listed. I hope this helps.

 

Atari 2600 game testing (via 7800) on Retrotink 5X Pro - YouTube

Thank you so much for doing this, very impressive! The RetroTINK 5X handles it like a champ and does the best it can with the out of spec signals that are being sent to it. There's definitely no massively long drop outs like there are on the Framemeister.

 

I'm convinced, I'll be picking one up when they become available again!

 

- James

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The issue with Moon Patrol is the title screen not being displayed or displayed properly as I understand it. But you dropped straight into the game so didn't have a means to really see that.

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5 minutes ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

The issue with Moon Patrol is the title screen not being displayed or displayed properly as I understand it. But you dropped straight into the game so didn't have a means to really see that.

Here's a quick one of the title screen. Sorry for not showing that.

 

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13 minutes ago, SearsRoebuck said:

Ah. It did the drop the 2x does with Asteroids...so it isn't perfect. 

There have been various firmware updates... and it's FPGA so Mike Chi can add actual functionality although this is new to him.

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7 minutes ago, MrZarniwoop said:

There have been various firmware updates... and it's FPGA so Mike Chi can add actual functionality although this is new to him.

That's partially true.  Marqs has cautioned that some issues are due to the digitizing hardware and that isn't completely implemented by the FPGA.  Marqs shared that he specifically hunted for a more robust solution for the upcoming OSSC Pro.  I know Chi will do his best, but it partially depends on the hardware.  Skeptics would be better served to wait.  We will have to wait and see what's possible.

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6 hours ago, John Stamos Mullet said:

So does it work with Starmaster, or not?

If I get some time tonight, I’ll give this a shot and let you know. 

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10 hours ago, John Stamos Mullet said:

So does it work with Starmaster, or not?

 

Seemed okay to me, but I'm not sure if this is like Moon Patrol and only certain parts are problematic. I'm not very familiar with this game, so the gameplay is shameful and I had to mess with the difficulty switches, etc. I hope this helps.

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3 minutes ago, dlmartins said:

Seemed okay to me, but I'm not sure if this is like Moon Patrol and only certain parts are problematic

 

With the 2X-Pro, the game doesn't even show an image on any of my modern flat-panel TV's, so that's a major improvement from my perspective. 

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