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MrZarniwoop

Review for new RetroTINK 5X-Pro notes Atari 7800 S-Video performance

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Posted (edited)

I just dug out my 2X Pro and now I can see the issue. Comparing the 5X and 2X Pro does seem like a big difference, at least on my setup. I typically have the 7800 hooked up to a CRT and haven't played much 2600 on it until recently (we did have a 2600 growing up). This is fascinating.

 

For Starmaster, I get a rolling image on the 2X Pro. No issues at all on the 5X.

 

I also tried Moon Patrol with the 2X Pro and I can see the sync drops, which doesn't occur on the 5X Pro.

 

Edited by dlmartins

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From the test, it def still did the same drop with Asteroids, and I think I could see it in Buck? Buck isn't as obvious though. 

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11 hours ago, dlmartins said:

 

Seemed okay to me, but I'm not sure if this is like Moon Patrol and only certain parts are problematic. I'm not very familiar with this game, so the gameplay is shameful and I had to mess with the difficulty switches, etc. I hope this helps.

thanks!

 

Yeah - that's fine.

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On 5/5/2021 at 2:03 PM, MrZarniwoop said:

I am interested for two reasons:

  • Scaler, not just line doubler: to get an idea of the picture improvement on digital displays, look up 240p results with OSSC in Line5x mode or Framemeister scaled to 1080p, it's a much better picture that's amazing
  • Triple Buffering, where (on paper) it looks like it should handle, with perhaps 0 frames of lag, the problematic 2600 games with dynamic scanlines that can blank the display due to signal resyncing when used with most "zero lag" digital video converters: Asteroids (copyright screen), Buck Rodgers (between title and gameplay), Moon Patrol (first buggy may crash during blank at start), PlusCart(+) menu transitions, Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back (when an AT-AT Walker is destroyed), Talvisota (screen shake during gunshots), etc.

It also appears to have much better de-interlacing, although that shouldn't really matter to the Atari 7800.

I´ve made Talvisota: i saw the same thing in the emulator (screen shake during gunshots). I removed many if then statements, and replaced them with a sdata-field in batari Basic. This solved the problem. I think, the gamecode became too complex. Try version 1.0

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18 hours ago, donnerkuh said:

I´ve made Talvisota: i saw the same thing in the emulator (screen shake during gunshots). I removed many if then statements, and replaced them with a sdata-field in batari Basic. This solved the problem. I think, the gamecode became too complex. Try version 1.0

Tried it! I think perhaps more shots work with the screen remaining ok through my OSSC? But definitely sometimes even with 1.0 it still loses sync, I think as a result of video timing changes from the number of scanlines changing.

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On 5/2/2021 at 9:29 AM, DrVenkman said:

Whoever did the “review” needs to try some problematic 2600 games: Activision Starmaster, Atari Battlezone, Parker Bros. The Empire Strikes Back …

 

@ckrtech's done up a video looking into some of the problem games.

 

 

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36 minutes ago, SpiceWare said:

 

@ckrtech's done up a video looking into some of the problem games.

Just watched that video - excellent summary and description of the issues. 

 

(And nice hat tip to you, Mr. Spice, in the credits!) 

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37 minutes ago, DrVenkman said:

And nice hat tip to you, Mr. Spice, in the credits!

 

Thanks!

 

We've been going back & forth via email since early May and wrapped it up last week.  After my initial research into Battlezone I posted the following topic in the 2600 Programming forum to show people how to use Stella's Debugger to analyze VSYNC. Numerous values get reset with the 2nd write to VSYNC, which makes it a little bit tricky to analyze.

 

I quite liked the Draconian cameos as well 😁 

 

 

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On 5/5/2021 at 7:03 AM, MrZarniwoop said:

Asteroids (copyright screen), Buck Rodgers (between title and gameplay), Moon Patrol (first buggy may crash during blank at start), PlusCart(+) menu transitions, Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back (when an AT-AT Walker is destroyed), Talvisota (screen shake during gunshots), etc.

I received my RetroTINK 5X-Pro a bit ago, but just been too busy to play games so haven't had any opportunity to try it out until last night.

 

First impression: amazeballs.

 

I unpacked it, hooked it up to my Atari 7800 with UAV via S-Video, and I can report that in testing all of the above have no loss of sync, stable picture although in some places where other video processors lose sync you can see the whole picture move up a scanline and back. Buck Rodgers is a little bit flickery in between screen transitions, but always shows a picture. The picture is on par with OSSC in 5X mode (S-Video via Koryuu Transcoder), perhaps a touch better than with a Framemeister XRGB-mini (S-Video), and day-and-night better than a RetroTINK 2X (again S-Video). This is with default settings, including triple buffering on, although I think I like the look of 1080p (OVER) on my LG TV but want to nudge the picture up 1 scanline.

 

Battlezone flickers too much to be fun, but is playable.

 

I have not yet updated firmware, as don't have a PC around to do so. I also have an Atari 2600 with 2600RGB so may try with that today if I get a chance to see how RGB video performance works.

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I actually had a Tink5x Pro on loan for about 2 weeks but I honestly wasn't that impressed with it when compared to my current AV setup I have in the game room now. The main thing it has going for it over everything else is the simplicity in how to use it. But I still thought the picture quality overall is better through my OSSC setup. Being able to setup dialed in profile settings for each of consoles is really nice also.

 

The biggest difference however was on the RGB side. Through a Tink5x pro the RGB image wasn't quite as sharp as what I get through my OSSC setup and in several resolutions I actually preferred the RGB output from my Tink2x SCART vs the Tink5x Pro. Now this was well over a month ago maybe 2 so perhaps the firmware has cleaned it up and improved it some. 

 

One console that is NOT improved with the Tink5x is the Colecovision through RGB as really nasty vertical bars now show up through that upgrade on the Tink5x but are not present through the OSSC setups and is quite reduced on the Tink2x SCART. 

 

So I still think the $300 that the Tink5x goes for would be better spend on an OSSC and some good quality AV selectors and cables to allow more systems to be connected up and once and have specific profiles in place for each system to look its best.

 

But again, can't argue with the ease of use of the Tink5x.

 

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8 hours ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

The biggest difference however was on the RGB side. Through a Tink5x pro the RGB image wasn't quite as sharp as what I get through my OSSC setup and in several resolutions I actually preferred the RGB output from my Tink2x SCART vs the Tink5x Pro. Now this was well over a month ago maybe 2 so perhaps the firmware has cleaned it up and improved it some. 

Playing with new firmware will have to wait for me, unfortunately. I suspect that would change a few things? Trying it with a 2600RGB will wait at least a few days I think.

 

Warlords suffers from the same "flickers too much to be fun, but is playable" as Battlezone. But so far everything else I throw at it on an Atari 7800 UAV/S-Video seems amazingly good, with stock (old) firmware and not tweaking any settings.

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I have the latest firmware (1.99) and I can confirm that Battlezone and Warlords both still have issues.  I couldn't fix them with any setting,

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